Start, Yas Marina, 2013

Double points: One race, three races – or none?

2014 F1 seasonPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Start, Yas Marina, 2013The start of the 2014 F1 season is three weeks away, yet a fundamental question about how the sport works remains unanswered.

At the insistence of Bernie Ecclestone the rules were changed late last year to award double points at the final race of the season. The news prompted an angry response from fans when it was announced.

Over 90% of F1 Fanatics said they were against the plan. Fans’ objections to the plan have featured prominently in much of the media coverage of the controversial rules change.

Nonetheless Ecclestone is lobbying for the plan to be extended so the last three races of the season are all worth double points. Where do you stand on this debate?

For

Ecclestone’s reasoning for offering double points for races at the end of the season is that it will increase the chance of the championship being decided later in the year.

Last year Sebastian Vettel won the world championship three race before the end of the season. Ecclestone hopes that by making the last three races worth twice as much he can prolong the championship contest and sustain interest from television audiences for longer.

Against

The plan is fundamentally unfair. The races where double points are offered are not double the race length and do not feature double the number of competitors. There is no sporting reason for these races to be valued higher than the others.

This plan will arbitrarily give some drivers twice as great a reward for winning one race, and punish others them twice as severely for some misfortune. It threatens to undermine the outcome of the championship.

I say

This is the latest example of Formula One grappling with the conflicting demands of sport versus entertainment. In this case F1 has sacrificed sporting integrity for commercial reasons, and I have no difficulty understanding why so many fans are against it.

For those in charge of the sport, it is ludicrous to believe they can make the sport more interesting to potential viewers by introducing something which the overwhelming majority of existing fans strongly dislike.

It should not need pointing out that the previous, far fairer points system produced thrilling last-race championship deciders in many recent seasons – including 2012, 2010, 2008, 2007 and 2006. Had the latter races in these years been worth double points it would have diminished the spectacle, not enhanced it, because of the taint of artificiality that would have been introduced.

Formula One should abandon Ecclestone’s double points plan, not extend it.

You say

Do you think the double points plan should be kept – or extended to three races? Or should it be scrapped entirely so that all races are worth the same number of points?

Cast your vote below and have your say in the comments.

Should some F1 races be worth double points?

  • No races should be worth double points (96%)
  • The last race should be worth double points (1%)
  • The last three races should be worth double points (2%)
  • No opinion (1%)

Total Voters: 634

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192 comments on “Double points: One race, three races – or none?”

  1. None. Nuff said

    1. 95%. Nuff said!

      1. 96% and counting…

        1. @keithcollantine are the results of the survey going to be put on twitter?

        2. 467 votes at the time of this comment.

          so this means (rounding up/down) double points for :
          448 votes : no race
          5 votes : 1 race
          5 votes : 3 races
          9 votes : no opinion

          nothing else to add.

    2. When will these “officials” realize sometimes the champions are just that much better than their competition , and so amount of trickery or manipulation will change that… I’m a Ferrari fanatic, and how do you think I feel..lol

    3. Or make every race double points.

      1. Thief! You stole my idea !!!

        Lewl :)

      2. It goes against the principle of “same distance = same points” (other than Monaco of course, as it’s too twisty to do 92 laps so they do 78 instead)

      3. Or give Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and other Tilkedromes half points

          1. terrible logic, but I do get the joke…

      4. I plan to work it out for myself who really won the championship. If that driver didn’t win because of double points i’ll just ignore the fact. If we all agree then we can celebrate the real champion and let the other guy parade around with his double points infected trophy!

    4. Maybe some Germans have to say “Nein” to Bernie, so he understands….

      1. What did you say, sorry? 9? Oh ok – the fans double points for 9 races.

        :D

    5. All races should have equal points. The spectacle that is F1 should be on the track, not in silly made up rules.

    6. Make all the races Double Points… Problem Solved.

  2. Easy one, didn´t think at all…. NO DOUBLE POINTS!!!!

    1. I’m going with the cliché and say all of them should be double points!

    2. If over 95% of fans don’t like, it’s a fail commercially speaking right?

      Is there any on-line petition running? If not,we should start thinking about it guys, Australian GP is three weeks!

  3. Keith, can you modify the pole so people voting “Yes” get marked as double points ;-)

    1. The last vote should get double points to be in the spirit of the pole.

      1. haha true! :)

  4. Bernie has obviously voted for double points on F1F looking at the vote…

    1. Or is it Max Chilton ;-)

  5. Either give all the races double points, or none at all

    1. This was also my thought

      1. Or Sergio Perez ;)

  6. Chris (@tophercheese21)
    23rd February 2014, 12:09

    Obviously the answer is “none”, but unfortunately with the way Ecclestone is going, there’s a much higher chance of getting 3 races with double points than none. :(

    1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
      23rd February 2014, 12:14

      Also, I don’t understand why some team bosses think it’s too late to scrap the ruling, when the season hasn’t even begun? Theoretically they could scrap the double points rule the night before the Abu Dhabi race weekend, with the realisation that this rule is clearly the workings of someone who is quite obviously trying to bring the ship down with the captain.

      1. @tophercheese21 You can’t blame renault power team to be in favor of such rule given the recent events … That makes the start of the season less relevant.
        Indeed I’m against it, but that should have been closed well before testing, now the teams worried about the start of the season will stick with it, very difficult to come back on that decision.

  7. Give all races double points, then half everyone’s points at the end of the season to make for easy comparison for previous seasons. :)

    1. So logical, so hopeful, so unlikely…

  8. No brainer. None. Or, just for the difference’s sake, ALL. I’m good either way as long as it’s scoring system based on consistency.

  9. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
    23rd February 2014, 12:16

    Well, the obvious answer is none, but if we must have double points, let us at least align ourselves to the FIA World Endurance Championship system where Le Mans is worth double points because it’s more of a test for teams and drivers. The only way I’d happy with double points would if we saw races like Monaco and Singapore, the more challenging tracks get double points, but even then we’d still need a asterisks next to the championship result.

    1. It’s more of a test because it is 4x as long. We lookt at Monaco that way but in F1 all GP should be looked at the same way.

    2. If they insist on double points I would have them at Monaco, Suzuka, and Interlagos and call them regional championship races.
      Maybe switch Monaco with Monza since that’s toward the end of the European season.

      1. No. I fail to see how that’s any better.

    3. @william-brierty

      the more challenging tracks get double points

      I can already hear endless debates about which track is the more challenging … :) I seriously don’t know how to turn double points into a good idea… Should just be discarded IMO.

      1. @spoutnik double the length of the race – that is literally the only feasible way to lessen the impact.

        1. Doubling the laps of the race would probably make a race 6 hours long given the 100 kg fuel limit…

      2. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        23rd February 2014, 18:09

        @spoutnik – Well obviously the best option is to discard it, but I personally would be more comfortable with it if there was some effort to proportion points with driver/team effort. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean the most challenging track, I meant the more challenging races, and in that respect, Monaco and Singapore could be worth more. However that is me simply trying to find a way of rationalizing this madness: it’s like trying to translate David Beckham’s autobiography into a F. Scott Fitzgerald novel…

        @vettel1 – We might need refueling or MotoGP style car changes for that!

    4. Le Mans gets 2x points because it is the world’s most prestigious car race and it is 4x long as most other races in the championship. And besides that, no F1 race stands out that much to be given double points – despite the fact that some tracks like Spa are different, all races are run at the same distance and time.

      1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        23rd February 2014, 18:17

        @dujedcv – What about the Monaco Grand Prix? Is that not prestigious enough? I get your point, Le Mans is twice as long as some endurance races and four times as long as most, but other than some attempt to align points with driver/team effort, there really is no way of rationalizing double points. Personally, I would be more comfortable if there was double points for the Monaco or Singapore Grands Prix than the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix…

        1. The reason why there is double points is the reason why abu dhabi is now the final grand prix because of money! The f1 boss’s wont change it because they’ll lose there fat pay check!

          1. yup.

            Maybe we can petition the EU/US to freeze the FIA’s bank accounts? It worked so well in Ukraine.

          2. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
            24th February 2014, 7:58

            @astevo1989 – Yes, I think the conveners of the Abu Dhabi GP are much less than chuffed in having only hosted one championship decider, and have really pushed the boat out, financially, to ensure that they do this year. Go on, Lewis, get the job done before Abu Dhabi!

  10. I’d rather it was none, but if we have to do it due to the sheer stubbornness of Bernie, I’d rather that it was three races scattered throughout the season – say, Monaco, Spa and Abu Dhabi. That way it’s three different types of track and gives the possibility for it to shake up the championship without it allowing a last-three-race push for the title.

  11. Definitely none. Don’t support this at all. If they made the last race some sort of special 600km endurance race (with one fuel stop allowed half way to allow for the requirement of double the distance) then I think it would be acceptable (although I still wouldn’t support it because the race is at Abu Dhabi… Interlagos would be another story!) but there’s no way that would happen – it would be too tough on both cars and drivers.

    To be honest I’d like to see another poll for “if I had to choose between 1 and 3 races for double points”. Judging by how it’s going so far, most people would rather 3 races (4% have voted 3 vs 2% for 1) which is what I’d expect, because at least then if someone has bad luck in one of the double points races or something then they would have more of a chance to get back.

    1. You just proved the old saying ” figures don’t lie, but liars can figure”

  12. None. Or All. So none.
    It’s maddening that one man has so much influence over the sport.
    Can Bernie charge double the ticket prices for these races too?

    1. He’s been doing that for every race for years.

  13. No races should be worth double points, It cheapens the championship & F1.

    Still could be worse, Could be like the new nascar championship system where they feel points championships confuse fans so need to be de-emphasised.

    Utterly absurd how entertainment & the feeling that every yearthe championship by rights should go down to the final race is now seeing ridiculous gimickery introduced to achieve it at the expense of the essence of the

    A series championship should be run to the same points system at every race with the winners been the team/driver that scored most over every round, Any attempt to add/create artificial excitement via the points/championship system cheapens it & in my opinion anyone who wins a championship based purely off double points/the nascar chase system is not as worthy a champion as someone who gets the most points over a season where every race is equal in terms of points haul.

    1. “at the expense of the essence of the ” should end with sport.

  14. I mean, giving double points at the final race is cool and all, but why stop there? Why don’t we give bonus multipliers for different stunts? You could give a multiplier of x1.5 if you finish the race with a back flip like Fittipaldi in 1993 or of x2 if you touch a DHL publicity with the bottom of your car like Webber in 2010. We will have a million different possibilities for Championship outcomes and TV ratings wil go through the roof. I have a ton of other cool ideas like this, like ramps to take shortcuts and buttons in the car that release oil. If you are Ecclestone or from the FIA give me a call. Think about it. Gimmicks=Profit!

    1. I was thinking that super KERS should be a power up on the race track, as soon as a driver has collected it, he must use it within a lap. There should also be an oil spill power up so that the driver can get rid of cars behind him.

      After the race, all drivers who got 3 stars get to spin a bonus wheel which gives them some sort of multiplier on the points total for that race.

      Now this sounds like Bernie’s idea of F1

      1. Why do I have an image of Muttley laughing in my head? Oh, possibly because BE wants to turn F1 into Wacky Races…

  15. None. No one race is more important than the rest. They should all have the same points allocation or it makes a mockery of the whole championship. Winning the first race is not worse than coming third at the last race so they should be rewarded as such. A win is a win, they should be treated as such.

  16. I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, no to double points. Unfortunately F1 says if it ain’t broke, smash it into a million pieces and rearrange it into something hideous.

  17. On a serious note, if the championship is eventually decided in a double point race that has a direct effect on the winner, do you think the drivers themselves would be “contrite” about it?

    1. You’ll end up with the “Massa was world champion for 30 seconds” thing, but way worse. Though people forget that some drivers have scored more points than others but ended up losing world championships before because of the dropped score systems. The two I can think of off the top of my head being Graham Hill (1964) and Alain Prost (1988).

      1. @geemac
        I’m still seeing stupid comments on the web like “Senna smashed Prost in his first season in the team”, when Prost actually had more points…
        I think I’d rather have a decent championship that doesn’t go down the wire, than have a better driver lose a championship because of some gimmick.

  18. Well that’s a no-brainer.

  19. No races should have double points. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening anymore this season, so I fervently hope double points don’t get extended to three races. With a single race, for me it will be a case of “biting through the sour apple” and hope it does not change the championship winner, but three races will be a real turn-off for me.

    I’m still open to the idea of experimenting with two races in one weekend (with qualifying sessions for each race), not necessarily at the final round (preferably not) and of course rather not at a venue like Abu Dhabi, but perhaps at one that has few support races anyway, Canada perhaps? It does not seem like this idea has been floated with the powers that be, however.

  20. If Bernie wants to really mess with the points, how about this: he gets to choose which races have double points AFTER the race has run so that he can ensure that the last race has at least two championship contenders. Much better…

    Personally, if at least 3 races had to be “doubles” I’d make the first two races worth more – to give a big random boost to the championship and probably allow teams at the bottom of the order to score better. Then I’d give double points for a race in the US or Russia – for some cheap publicity.

    Obviously I actually don’t want to see any of these. NO DOUBLE POINTS.

  21. None. As for the idea to give double points for the final three races, it is not only unfair but has other potential risks, too.

    Firstly, why should a casual spectator watch (or go to) one of the first 16 races if the championship is going to be decided in the final three anyway? It might even lead to a drop in viewers over the whole season.

    Secondly, it’s impossible to predict how the title fight is going to develop. Double points might as well turn a potentially thrilling battle into a damp squib if one driver, who is slightly behind in the standings with three races to go but enjoying a particularly strong end to the season just runs away with title.

  22. You all get it wrong:
    * Only last race of 2013 will get full points, all other races will get half the points.
    * Next year 3 last races will get full points, all other get half points.
    * 2015 last 5 races get full points + Monaco + Russia GP get full points for obvious non-obvious reasons.
    * 2015 all F1 videos will be taken down from the internet for copyright infringement.
    * 2016 all races get full points except tracks which have financial problems, they are only worth half points.
    * 2017 all races get tripe points except for all except for the last one.
    * 2018 drivers get qualifying points. Vettel wins the championship by only winning Qualifyings. He doesn’t start in a race.
    * 2019 there will be two 30min races in one weekend because 1.5-2h race is too long for theyattention span of young people.
    * 2020 finally Bernie’s idea of overtaking shortcuts on track will be used. Every driver gets 3 “push to pass” uses of the track shortcut… pushing a button (touchscreen) on the steering wheel opens a gate on the track, just like DRS.
    * 2021 what F1?

    1. David not Coulthard (@)
      23rd February 2014, 13:20

      there will be two 30min races in one weekend because 1.5-2h race is too long for theyattention span of young people.

      In reality it isn’t, but Bernie won’t believe me. Then again, I might as well say he’s too old to care about globalisation as he came from a pre-WWW (and pre-jet-engined-aircraft) generation and should therefore step down.

    2. It starts to resemble the complexity of how mobile phone companies charge the use of data, SMS’es, calls etc.
      No matter what Bernie would ideally like to be able to change the rules as the season unfolds to make sure that the last lap of the last race will be decisive. His problem is that all the preceding laps of the season won’t be very interesting then. What a predicament for Bernie:-)

  23. Why not have points JUST for the last race of the season? Ensures that the championship will always go down to the wire.

    1. Yes – much simpler, @ceevee. Should have thought of this myself! 22 “test” sessions (televised of course) and one climactic race. Purest spectacle, plus the rights to run the “one race to rule them all” would rake in stupendous amounts of pocket money for whoever takes over from Bernie.

  24. I don’t understand why 19 races should get half points…

    1. Because everyone is against it and it was decided like that.

      1. Clearly not everyone… :-)

    2. I don’t get why the race organisers are accepting that their races are only half points race.

      1. I think they should be “promoted” like this by the fans to make our point.

        The season starts at 2014 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN HALF POINTS GRAND PRIX

        1. I doubt Rolex would want their name on that. They’d drop out and be replaced by Timex.
          And the Abu Dhabi GP’s title sponsor should be Fake Rolex.

  25. If F1 were a sport then this wouldn’t be needed. This is only being included because F1 is now a form of entertainment, rather than a sport. It’s a shame we have lost F1 to the entertainment industry. That’s said, on a plus note it should bring the cost of watching races down, as viewers should no longer have to pay extra for the sky sports package.

    1. No, Sky will still gouge your eyes out for as long as possible.

  26. why not give points all the way down to last place at least that way everybody scores points 22-1 or however many teams take part. – just a thought, what do others think

  27. When I was talking about the double points with a friend who casually watches F1 ever since he’s known me (2007-ish) he asked me a very profound question: ‘Have they given up on trying to make the sport itself more exciting?’

    Let’s face it; Abu Double is merely a measure to increase the entertainment levels. Sports need entertainment (ask anyone who doesn’t live in a country where speedskating is popular about the Dutch success, or any non-cricket playing country about the sport in general), but in the past the sporting regulations were changed to minimize the gaps between the front and the back of the field. This rule completely negates the racing, the quality of the race for purely mathematical fun.

    This worries me. Like my friend asked, have Bernie and the FIA given up on improving the races? Do they think the racing is ok? (Because as long as there’s DRS, it’s not.)

    I’m nearing a point where I can no longer rationally explain people why I like F1. It’s a part of my life, and has been since I was 7, but it’s becoming that crazy aunt/uncle you love because they’re family, but have to ignore whenever she does something stupid..

    1. That is indeed an apt remark @npf, clearly Bernie has stopped caring about f1 as a sport. I can only hope it gets better, and I do think the new engines might help improve the races.

  28. David not Coulthard (@)
    23rd February 2014, 13:07

    That was way easier than trigonometry, wasn’t it?

  29. Start typing “hermann tilke” into google and see what’s the first suggestion ;) One of the biggest reasons for boring races.

  30. Normally I look forward to every race whether the champioship is alive or already decided but if this plan of double points comes in I will be embargoing those races, so they will need to find a new viewer just to kee the figures as they were and will need 2 new viewers to improve the numbers viewing. I prefer to be able to watch all races but if you are not prepared to make sacrifices for principal then as they used to say in the 60s you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

  31. I guess we’re stuck with it. It’ll be either one race or three. 3 would be the more interesting option. Wishful thinking says Bernie’s position will be weaker now he’s no longer a director of the various F1 companies, and the teams will stand up to him. More realistically, I can’t imagine F1 teams uniting behind anything, although the Mercedes-powered teams working together on the test programme was a pleasant surprise.

    There may be redeeming features – teams no longer giving up development of their cars around September (as James Allen has pointed out), or drivers trying to win each race, as Gilles Villeneuve once did, and not just driving for points.

  32. There are a few things wrong with F1 at the moment but Bernie is attempting to fix something that isn’t broken, and avoiding other more important issues.

    All races worth the same points, all races count towards the championship. Surely that isn’t too much to ask for.

  33. I ve voted no. but I see one more argument for it, teams will develop their cars till last race since more constructor points is worth more money …. having said that, I disagree with it in principle.

  34. None.
    Double points for any race is a stupid ideal….while you’re going to make different rules for making the end of the season more interesting, why don’t you just not count any points except for the last race? The moment you make one race more valuable than the others, the sport loses integrity. You manufacture an artificial unbalance; this is absolutely counter-productive to idea of racing as the entire sport is based on balance…balance of speed vs downforce, balance of power vs fuel and tyre economy, balance of settling for a lower place in the grid to save the car for the next race. Now, there is no balance in the races themselves…stupid.

  35. BE would sure change his tune if rather than this concept ensuring viewership until the end, it diminished viewership by 96% from the start!

  36. Something like in IndyCar, where you have the ‘triple crown’ idea – win the 3 triple crown races and you get a lot of money (just in this case it would be extra points). This would be a better solution than having 1/3 double points races at the end of the season. You could have, for example, Silverstone, Belgium and Italy as the double points races but make them 50% longer than the rest; the first, last and middle races of the season double points and 50% longer; or make all of the remaining races that were on the original 1950 calendar double points (historically significant races), also 50% longer. These are just alternative suggestions that Bernie could consider. I am still, however, fully against the idea of double points for any races.

    1. Thinking about it, double points at Monaco might stop drivers and teams doing a Rosberg. There would be an extra incentive to go that little bit faster to pass someone holding up the field and making the race boring. Just a thought.

      1. But equally @fintard96, it could either allow a driver to win the championship earlier or just generally result in a farcical situation where no-one can pass (as it is after all Monaco) and not be able to recover from a poor grid position, but with twice the usual incurred cost.

        Honestly I think Monaco is the worst possible track to make a double points track, for the very reason that it is nigh-on impossible to pass on.

  37. At this rate F1 is going to end up doing what they’ve done in NASCAR …

    1. That’s where Bernie looks for most of his ideas,

  38. Stupid idea, full stop.
    It can only favour the big spending teams who can afford to develop the car right to the last race, Surely the drivers don’t want to be the one who won a championship on a gimmick. Would Vettel want to fight back from a poor start to the season, as it looks likely he will have to and i have no doubt he will, then win it because of double points in the last race? Surely he would be embarrassed. Still the drivers have the power to stop this.
    They should all agree now to ignore double points and should the title be decided at the final race, hand the trophy to the genuine winner. What’s the worst that could happen – would a top team sack a top driver when the whole of the F1 fan base sees them as a hero? Or are they all too scared of Bernie?

  39. Easy One! That One that isnt wwe! Abandon that rule

  40. Kinda a foregone conclusion, this one. Perhaps not the most vital piece ever on F1F if I may be so petty as to point out.

  41. I was about to say something, but people have already made the point clear.

  42. if they want to increase the spectacle for commercial reasons…then i suggest they should start awarding points the whole weekend from practice 1 ,2 and 3 and to sweeten it up by awarding more points for qualification 1 ,2 and 3..
    This will ensure that by the end of the season.. all the teams will have earned a point of some sort ….

  43. I’ve just realised: Bernie Ecclestone has missed an absolutely golden opportunity which I think most fans would like/not be too against.

    Have a GP2-type weekend in Abu Dhabi, so two races – one of which a sprint race with (if we must) a reverse grid. It wouldn’t be ideal for the purists but I could watch that without wishing to vomit on my television.

    1. Have a GP2-type weekend in Abu Dhabi, so two races – one of which a sprint race with (if we must) a reverse grid.

      both the fia & fota had questions about double races & reverse grids in there respective fan poll’s a few years ago & fans were overwhelmingly against both proposals.

      Speaking personally if F1 ever did adopt 2 race weekends, sprint races or reverse grid i’d skip that weekend.
      If they did it for every race i’d stop watching f1 just like i stopped watching the btcc when they adopted 2-3 sprint races about 10 years ago.

      1. V8 Supercars here in Oz tried the reverse grid a couple of years ago and it was not a success and was quickly abandoned. But last year they came up with something even worse, they stopped the races half way. Yep, they stopped for a ‘tea break’ and then resumed racing an hour or so later. It was an absolute farce which just killed off the race and frankly by the end of the season Mr Pink and I stopped watching altogether. When you watch a motor race, that’s exactly what you want to see. Not gimmicks and tricks – if I wanted that I’d go see David Copperfield.

  44. As someone already said, why fix something that is not broken? I mean, seriously, how can they not see it? We’ve had a lot of thrilling last races in the past few years.

    I mean, how could double points make races more exciting? I just don’t see it. If two or more drivers have a chance to win the championship at the last round it’s going to be exciting anyway, double points won’t really matter. If the championship battle has been one sided, it’s likely that double points would not change a lot. I mean, take Vettel in 2013 and 2011.

    So, this rule would only be effective if the leader has a lead between 25 and 50 points before the last race. How many times did it happen?
    Is it worth upsetting fans, journalists, drivers because of that? I say no.

  45. I’m against having double points for a race. But I definitely think we should bring back non-championship races. I’d love to see the cars back at Magny-Cours or Indianapolis, even with no championship points on the cards. That would be really great!

    1. I’m sure Renault would support that idea this year.

  46. If they absolutely want to prevent the championship from being decided to early why not have an escalator in points for every race.
    Lets say every race is worth 10% more points than the previous one. It would be fair to the promoters and the teams doing the best job developing the cars over the season would be rewarded.
    Also every race would mean more in the points table than the previous one keeping interest up during the season.

    1. This is a good idea.

    2. So you say the last race should be valued SIX TIMES higher than the first. Stupid idea.

      And in general. Why do you want to reward in-season developement more than pre-season developement? This makes no sense to me.

    3. That’s worse than a double points finale. Sorry.

    4. It would be fair to the promoters

      Yeah, I bet Australia wouldn’t mind their race being worth about 1% of the championship at all.

    5. There is absolutely no justification for any race to be more valuable points wise than any other, that is why the races are all approx the same distance. If you want to manipulate the points Ferrari will back more points for Monza, but dont expect agreement from the other teams.

  47. Zain Siddiqui (@powerslidepowerslide)
    23rd February 2014, 16:28

    Why did you even put up a poll?

    1. He hopes someone from the FIA or Bernie’s advisors read the site.

  48. This is the plan that shows up just how ridiculous Bernie’s become. 5 years ago Bernie pushed hard for a medal based system to counteract the possibility that someone could win the championship having not won the most races in a season (as Hamilton had in 2008). Now, he proposes a plan which could hypothetically enable someone who wins only the last 3 races of the season to beat someone who wins 6 or even 7 “standard” races. That he can’t see how ludicrous the suggestion is only goes to highlight how ludicrous Bernie himself has become.

    Sport is there to provide people an opportunity to compete at the highest level and let the best man or team win. Goals scored in the last 5 minutes of a football match aren’t weighted more highly than those scored in the first, they don’t give the gold medal in the 100 metres to the person that runs the last 10 metres the fastest and you don’t pass your a levels just by getting the last 5 questions right, having messed up the rest of the test.

    Last year was unprecedented domination, and doesn’t warrant a knee jerk reaction to “fix” the sport. Sometimes you just have to sit back and applaud excellence, and then it’s up to the competition to up their games and make a better fist of it next year.

    I’m excited by the fact that this year already looks like having a mixed up grid, new technology, less reliability, new winners and so much more. I don’t need artificial nonsense to keep me excited and neither does anyone else.

    If you want increased audiences Bernie, maybe you should start listening to what we have to say for a change…. Of course if you want to chuck a few million bribe my way, let me know…

    1. The greatest irony in Bernie’s plan is that in those seasons where one driver begins to dominate – such as 2011 or 2013 – they usually continue to dominate. Vettel would have won by an even greater margin had double points been implemented in 2013 (albeit winning later, but still before the last race) and in 2011 the case would not differ drastically.

      Ecclestone is clearly failing to recognise is that the issue is not when the championship is wrapped up, but the inevitability of the occurrence. If one driver is dominating then the audience will be turned off irrespective of whether he is to win with five races to go or two.

    2. Actually Bernie could bung us all $100,000 to get unanimous support for less than the insignificant $43m. payoff he gave the banker.
      Please call me Bernie.

  49. We can all win: last race gets ‘double points’ (Bernie happy); but there are 2 races that weekend – Sat & Sun (fans happy). And we could even start the 2nd race in reverse order (Chilton happy).

  50. Of course no race should get double the points as no race weighs in double than any of the other races. Skewing the unequal treatment further to offer double points to the last three races does not make it right. But I guess even to strike down the ‘double points for the last race’ rule the strategy group has to come to a unanimous decision which looks highly unlikely given the FIA acting as puppet of Bernie. As much as I dread this, all that could happen is at best the last race alone retains double points or at worst we get a trident of double pointed races.

  51. I still don’t understand how this is going ahead. It’s madness. The whole idea makes no sense, in sporting terms or just any terms really. I’m still clinging on to the fragile self-hope that it’s all just a ruse, and it wont go ahead, even if it is written into the regulations.

  52. Dammit! Bernie is voting for that 2%!

  53. Long time reader / lurker. I signed up so I could vote, regardless of who wins and for how long they win no race should ever be worth more than any other within a championship.Sport is about a fair and level playing field, double points does not play by these rules.

  54. I still stand where I stood when it was announced. 0 races should be double points in F1. And in series where double or extra points are awarded (WEC or IndyCar) at least it is justifiable. Bernie’s stupid plans are unjustifiable in its current state.

  55. Why not give extra points for pole to make cars push in quali 3 and extra points in the race for fastest lap so the teams push for that rather than making the last race extra points and therefor worth more than any other grand prix! Makes no sense

    1. Why not give extra points for pole

      Because that would risk the championship been decided on Saturday after qualifying which takes away the incentive for some to bother watching the race.

      and extra points in the race for fastest lap

      Similar to above it could risk the championship been decided mid-race should someone get fastest lap & then it rains preventing anyone beating that time.

      Another problem with points for fastest lap is that often the fastest lap doesn’t really mean anything as its more down to what state your tyres are in late in the race than pure performance.
      Pit for fresh tyres with 2-3 laps to go & your pretty much guaranteed fastest lap & the only teams who would do that are those towards the back with no chance at finishing in the points.

  56. Easy! None, no race should be valued more just because it is placed at the end of the season.

  57. Pretty conclusive. :-)

  58. Keith, I’m sure you didn’t really need this poll to find out what we thought :)

    I’d take double points for a double-length race, but if that was the case, I would much rather have it somewhere other than Abu Dhabi. Spa would probably be my pick.

  59. Since by his own claim, given his age, Bernie’s lucidity fails him at times, maybe someone can pull a fast one on him: the points for the last race could just be printed in a font twice as big as the others and he’d think they’re worth double.

  60. It’s a disgusting proposal that cheapens the sport.

    It’s just as ridiculous as having a rule that caps anyone’s championship lead at 20 points.

    Has anyone in a senior role in F1 other than Ecclestone come out and said its a good idea and offered reasons why? Who in power had voted for it or agreed it?

    As much as I love watching F1 I would happily take part in any properly organised boycott of the watching of any double points race.

    1. properly organised or not I will not watch any race with double points.

  61. @keithcollantine I think this vote would be more telling if you could run it to a different electoral system.. so perhaps a preferential system? With first and second preferences? We all know that double points is hated, but what’s the next best answer? Now that would be a question I’d like to empirically test..

    1. There is no “next best answer”.

      1. @hohum Without you stating your reasoning I can’t deduce what you mean, but I supposed that you mean that the only acceptable solution is no double points? That would be your first choice. If you had no other opinion, then you are not obliged to use your second vote (hypothetically)

        1. @cduk_mugello, my reasoning and the reasoning of 96% of F1fs is that the F1 championship has been designed to be a series of races of near identical distance and duration so that each race will be a roughly similar challenge for which the points awarded will be the same, need I go on to explain how an annual championship works on the average best results. Unless the challenge is different the reward should be the same, any variation on equal points for equal challenge is just wrong.

    2. Is the “next best answer” not Bernie’s “double points for 3 races” proposal? As we can see from the poll, it is also widely hated.

  62. The object of the exercise seems to be keeping viewers involved until the end of the season, so why not make points awarded be subject to viewer voting? The drivers put on a show and the fans vote for the points winners. It doesn’t have to be the race winner so if, for instance, Maldonado demonstrates a spectacular shunt then he might attract a lot of votes even if he doesn’t finish the race. Of course you might get a lot of votes for Martin Brundle, even though he’s not racing, as viewers might find him more entertaining than the race itself.

  63. The double points idea might favour the Renault powered cars towards the end of the season when they find a way to extract everything from their power plants. Don’t be surprised if Seb wins the last three GP’s and win his 5th WDC when Ferrari and Mercedes cry foul

  64. As was mentioned on the Peter Windsor show, The championships which were very close in the past decade would actually not be close at all if it were for the double points and the championships which were not close would have no bearing of the double points systems, this makes the double points plan fundamentally pointless.

    1. FundamentallyDOUBLE pointless.

  65. The saddest thing about this is that for the first time ever, I actually kinda hope the championship is wrapped up early to ensure this rile doesn’t impact the championship. I can think of nothing worse for the championship than having a driver win simply because he was gifted an additional 25 points at the final race to turn around a 49 point deficit…

    1. Couldn’t agree with you more.

  66. Considering the complexity that comes with the new 2014 regulations and the challange given to the engineers and designers, it would be fair to reward championships points down to P12 or P14 I reckon. I guess with the current point system there’s room for rewarding few more finishing places. What do you think?

    1. Why not give points to every finisher? With last finisher getting 1 point, next to last 2 points etc. It seems fundamentally unfair that a team/driver can finish every race in a season but end up with no points. This is perhaps straying somewhat off-topic but if we’re looking at how points are awarded why not consider all options?

  67. Bernie – outstaying his welcome.

  68. I recall Horner saying something to the effect, “maybe the last 3 races should be double points to reduce the lottery effect of having only the final race at double value”. Want to reduce the lottery effect? Much simpler to scrap double points entirely.

    1. I have a feeling there was some agreement done. Either teams accept double points or [insert some very stupid idea]. And double points it was.

  69. The problem is, when one team is dominant enough to win the championship before the last three races, chances are, they’re going to win the last three races. In 2013, the season that made Bernie come up with this idiotic plan, Red Bull scored a 1st and 2nd, a 1st and 3rd, and a 1st and 2nd.

    In 2011, Vettel was crowned champion in Japan– But won two of the next four races, and was on the podium for the third.

    If you want excitement at the end of the season, give double points at the beginning of the season– A plan I’m sure Toto Wolff would be strongly in favor of right now. ;)

  70. I wonder how is the wording of the rules. I the current last race was cancelled for whatever reason, will the double points be moved on to the previous gp?

      1. Or if the last race is cut short and half points are awarded.

  71. Double points – absolute farce, whichever way you look at it. One race, 3 races, whatever, it’s ridiculous. It’s just ongoing – Bernie cares nothing for the sport, he just wants as much money out of it as he can get. Anybody with an agenda like that should not be in charge of Formula One, or any sport for that matter.

  72. All cars should be fitted with a radio-controlled engine cutoff switch.

    Bernie could then watch the race and simply stop cars as and when he wanted.

    This could lead to a very exciting end to the season.

  73. Late to the party here, but why not send a message even Bernie will understand?

    Sure, we will watch the last race, pen and paper in hand, and will boycott any and every company who airs a commercial for the race for, say, three months. The boycott would extend to six months if it was a channel a given viewer has to pay to watch?

  74. Only read the first page of comments so far, but here’s another silly idea to consider, HANDICAPS, as in golf. You win a race you start the next race with a points deduction, say 3 points, you win another, 5 point handicap. Fail to finish, get one handicap level removed. Also, referees positioned around the circuit to penalise (1 point) infringements such as crossing the white line, i.e. leaving the track!! Failing to control your car, at a corner for instance and bumping or obstructiing another driver (2 points). Now we can see the good drivers moving up the charts instead of the bullies and those with a death wish (especially for their competition)
    p.s. I voted NO!
    P.P.S Apologies to anyone who already posted such an idea, like I said, I have only read the first page of comments so far.

    1. Another golfing idea: an Order of Merit. Just rank them in order of how rich they are. Perfect for F1 today with all the pay drivers – but maybe it would be more appropriate for GP2.

  75. there is one thing we can do: totally ignore all the races that have double points!!! not watch them, not commenting, not going to the race!!! if enough true fans do it, it will be felt by FOM and thatll be money!!! theyll never do it again!!!! but it must be done well!!!! we have still some time to spread the word: TOTALLY IGNORE THE DOUBLE POINTS RACES!!!!!

  76. Of course, I voted no.

    To be honest, I don’t think Bernie is serious about this either. He chooses these sorts of ridiculous stances because he knows they will cause controversy = headlines = free marketing.

    As they say, There is no such thing as bad publicity.

    This strange saying may derive from Oscar Wilde, who once said, “The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.”

    Is Bernie soon to find out it is worse to be talked about? I have my doubts he’ll be ejected, to be honest. He’s the ringmaster and makes those who shelter him millions upon millions of dollars every year.

  77. The reason behind double points is that it is believed that this will attract new viewers. Don’t they understand that this will also drive traditional viewers away?
    Many people have suggested that we should not be watching double points races, but I’m going one step further and will not watch any race at all this year if this goes ahead.
    Since it is only numbers that they care about then all I can say is that If my wishes as a customer are not respected then I am not buying.

  78. If only elections were this unanimous.. oh wait bad comparison since dictators and stuff.
    hmm maybe a good comparison after all

  79. I think add penalty by 10kg,5kg,2kg for podium 1,2,3 to slow the best teams and make a more even race over the season – penalty weight added should be fuel !

  80. Bernie has totally lost the plot. It is time he goes before he destroys F1.

  81. Is he trying to do as much damage as he can to the F1 before he leaves?
    If so he is doing great job. I will skip all double points races as a tribute to all he is done for the sport.

  82. I think I still have the best idea for all this. I’m a fan of double points, why, because the teams already know about it and they plan for it. No big deal, IMHO. But:

    The venues want to be noticed more here too so why not make three races have double points but do so so that other venues get a chance to host a double points race.

    One of the first four races will be a double points race. One of the middle 12 will be a double points race. One of the last three will be a double points race.

    Set all this up like they set up “Champoins” Leagure football (soccer to those of us in the US). Have pretty ladies pull different ping-pong balls from a bowl to determine which races get double points. It’s fair and it keeps some excitement in the pre-season.

  83. I am heartened to see that the vast majority of F1 fans agree that the double points idea is simply wrong.

    This is the first time I’ve signed up to any forum or posted any message. Although it may make little difference I hold out hope that the sheer numbers of fans coming out against this rule might count for something.

    To echo the view of a few other posters back in December, part of me wants to believe this is all a publicity stunt to ensure Formula One remains in the newspapers during the off-season. In fact to begin with I barely took the whole issue seriously as it’s such a bizarre and self-defeating concept – bizarre as it cannot be assumed that it would work as intended, e.g. Vettel winning the championship by even more points last year; and self-defeating as any F1 fan will clearly despise the very notion of devaluing all the other races.

    However what has moved me to make a vote and say my piece is that even if this does prove to be one of those things we look back on and say: “…hey, remember that crazy double points rule Bernie came up with to get all that publicity?”, it has gone far enough now to feel as though those in positions of power in Formula One really do view their fans with disdain and disrespect.

    It saddens me to say it, but if this rule remains in place I shall for the first time in my life voluntarily abstain from viewing a Grand Prix. If it is extended to three races?… Yup, those too.

  84. Everyone’s free to their opinion and all that, but I’m curious who the other (currently) 4% are.

  85. A shorter season would also guarantee that the later races are more likely to be meaningful for the championship. Taken to extremes, if there was only one race in the season, that last race would be VERY meaningful. But who would argue that that is a good solution? Probably less than the 4% in this poll. How about the first 18 races are practice races and the last race is the only one with points awarded? Or the first 12 races are the regular season, then the bottom teams or drivers are eliminated and the rest go on to the playoffs? Or variations like that? Surely those ideas would be quickly rejected, but are they any more ridiculous than double points for one race?

    Every season has a personality – and we cannot know what that personality will be ahead of time. It would spoil the competition and the drama if we could. Perhaps some seasons would have been more exciting if a bizarre point awarding rule was employed, but others would be much less exciting. Why tamper with a system that is fair and sporting at all, let alone if it will decrease the experience at least some, if not all, of the time?

  86. Let us go back to 9,6,4,3,2,1

  87. I don’t agree on unfairness argument. It’s fair as long as all drivers are in same circumstances. They will just have more responsibility for that final race. Contrary, technical rules changes are often is unfair because they draw back one or a few teams.

    1. But by definition it isn’t fair:
      You won the first race of the season, from lights to flag over 300 kilometres taking 2 pit stops and collected 25 points.

      I won the last race of the season, from lights to flag over 300 kilometres taking 2 pit stops and collected 50 points.

      It’s idiotic.

  88. I have been firmly against altering the points system but I have given it an enormous amount of soul searching ,brain aching consideration in the last 10 seconds and I have come up with a solution that fits into our more tolerant and lets face it luvvy duvvy 21st century society. There should be no more of this winner is best attitude , from now on all the drivers should be spoken of in a pleasant and conglatudry way at the end of each event with a small trophy for all ‘competitors ‘ they could all be on the podium at the end ,and another old man could tell them «they were all his favourites»… There you are No Winners, No Champions no need to award double points.

  89. Personally I think double points is a good idea for the final race. It does make a lot of sense!

    Please hear me out on this one!

    Firstly, It does have the potential to make the championship run until the final race. Of course this is good for the excitement for us fans but also for the sponsors & tv networks who guarantee more viewers throughout the whole season.

    Secondly, It enables the broadcasters and FOM a great marketing opportunity to hype up an end of season Finale with double points. A great spectacle where fighting to win means more than ever! This can certainty be an exciting prospect.

    A lot of people are saying its not fair, but a quick look at other sports shows that they too use different methods such as end of season play-off’s in football and the new Nascar chase so these things do have precedence.

    So is it really all negative? I don’t think so.

    1. When you change the points you the history and the accomplishments of what the drivers have done. Every time they get changed, we have to rely more on counting outright wins and placings to know who was great.. because the point structure system has been diluted or tampered with. This is a sideshow maneuver and has nothing to do with maintaining F1’s great history. It only cheapens it.

      1. *When you change the points you change the history and the accomplishments of what the drivers have done.*

    2. Why not make it triple points? Or half points if someone wins two races in a row? Or a mid-season “Super Race” where the people who finished on the podium in the previous race have to start at the back of the grid but they can earn a 25 point bonus if they can fight their way back to the podium?!

      I jest of course. F1 is a big enough folly at the best of times, the last thing it needs is double-point season finales to give it even less credibility.

  90. DOUBLE points for the last three races would make it all very interesting. Isn’t it true that once the championship is decided earlier, the remaining races becomes just a formality. It is most damaging
    for this sports that it becomes a “formality to race”. Therefore Bernie has a valid point !!

  91. Giving double points in the last one or three races is ludicrous. All races should be worth the same number of points and F1 has indeed lost its integrity as long as they keep this stupid rule in place.

    What they instead could do is:

    1. Award points to 12 or even better 15 drivers each race.
    2. Make the drivers always start in opposite order to their overall standing in the championship. This would ensure the best are at the back and allow for a lot of overtaking. As it is now, the best are at the front from the beginning of a race and we see too little overtaking.
    3. Allow the teams to use which-ever tyre manufacturer they want.

  92. They could also award a bonus for the fastest lap of the race, perhaps 5 points.

    I suggest a new points system with points for 15 drivers: 1: 50, 2:42, 3:35, 4:30, 5:26, 6:22, 7:18, 8:15, 9:12, 10:10, 11:8, 12:6, 13:4, 14:2, 15:1

  93. Another alternative, if you want to ensure that the last race is the championship decider, is to make the points available for the last race variable. The winner gets 150% of the points gap between 1st and 2nd in the championship at the end of the previous race. That way we are guaranteed to get a decider at the last race.

  94. I can just see so many horrible scenarios in my head right now. I am seriously dreading this double points rule… I can just imagine that some really likeable driver will have a great season and is on pace for a top five finish in the overall standings but then gets taken off in the first corner of the double points race.

    1. It would be absolutely awful if the double points race actually decides the championship. If the champion only wins because of double points in the last race, most fans would not consider him the REAL Champion.

      1. Agree. I pray the double points are moot – which defeats their purpose.

        The idea has got to be scrapped.

        1. It is like they are turning a serious and great sport into a silly quizz show. People will stop taking the sport seriously if they persist with such absolute nonsense. High time for Bernie E to let other people take over.

  95. Double points system it’s just more evidence of bernie’s dementia

  96. And here we are. One more race before season 2014 ends. 17 points between 1st and 2nd in the standings.
    Same year they introduce double points for the championship to go on to the last race, the format isn´t even needed.

  97. Some call Bernie the Ringmaster of Formula 1.
    I think he is the clown.
    Retire now Bernie.

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