Start, Buddh International Circuit, 2013

Indian GP hopes pinned on “next government”

F1 Fanatic Round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Start, Buddh International Circuit, 2013In the round-up: The organisers of the Indian Grand Prix are hoping a change in government helps them get their round of the world championship back.


Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Indian Grand Prix: Organisers pin hope on next government (NDTV)

Jaypee Sports International CEO Sameer Gaur: “I will be meeting with Mr. Ecclestone in April and we will talk about all the issues which ensure F1 comes back to India. Having said that, a lot will also depend on the support of the next government at the centre.”

Special insight: What happens to F1 tyres under load (James Allen on F1)

“The key to it then, is to learn from this and to match the tyres’ full scale true loaded shapes to the virtual CFD tyre and wind-tunnel tyre shapes, otherwise a significant amount of CFD and wind-tunnel development runs will be wasted as they will not correlate to the real life conditions. And as F1 teams are now limited to only 30 hours a week for both, that’s a big problem.”

How F1 and champagne might help us solve global warming (The Guardian)

“Applying this technology to everyday motor vehicles could cut global oil consumption by 2% or more a year. ‘But this F1 experience has a deeper significance: it shows what clever people can do when motivated.'”

Headline news (The Buxton Blog)

“The hotel managers would have been well aware when taking the families in that their establishment was fully booked for grand prix week. If they failed to make Malaysia Airlines or the families aware of this then the root of this problem lies with them.”


Comment of the day

Not everyone wants to see F1 back at Long Beach:

As a fan of IndyCar goes to the Long Beach Race I hope F1 stays away and they keep it an IndyCar event.

Don’t get me wrong I love F1 but the IndyCars at Long Beach is a great event, You can get close to the teams, drivers and paddock area. The racing’s great and its affordable which makes it a great family day out. It also has a very relaxed atmosphere, Everyone is friendly and the support events like ALMS (now USCC), Indy Lights, The Toyota pro/celebrity race and other things going on make it a great event which as I’ve said is great to take the family to.

F1 would ruin Long beach, I don’t mean necessarily mean in terms of the circuit I mean the overall event. Its a lot more restrictive, A lot less friendly, The racing wouldn’t be as fun, It would be far more expensive and I doubt they would have the extra support events, Especially the sportscars which is always a great event.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Gman, Sam and Benh!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Sebastian Vettel won the Malaysian Grand Prix on this day last year, though not without a little controversy:

Image © Daimler/Hoch Zwei

46 comments on “Indian GP hopes pinned on “next government””

  1. Chester Kitty
    24th March 2014, 0:48

    Really can’t condone the exercise in gratuitous noise and air-polluting that = Rosberg’s run of the W03 in KL during this new age of environmentally & socially-responsible, transparently-governed and fan-responsive 2014 Formula 1™.

    FIA should immediately introduce regulations to ban forevermore the running of outdated, wasteful, inefficient & obsolete F1 cars like the V8-powered Mercedes F1 W03. We have a planet to save, and desperate, malevolent corps. to dupe…

    1. Chester Kitty
      24th March 2014, 0:50

      possibly replace “desperate” with “cynical” above…

    2. I see what you did there.

    3. I was bored to death in 2013 in the second half of the year, but at least when the lights went out for the first 3 laps I was happy. I’d have gone to the races just for the purring sound the V8 made at 18,000 RPMs .

      V6s are fine , if they just revved up to 18 to 20,000 RPMs i got no problem

  2. Today I came across this video which has a good comparison of the engine sounds from last year to this:
    Seems at least a lot more accurate than that on TV

    1. Seems at least a lot more accurate than that on TV

      Not really unless both were shot on the same device as different handheld cameras, Smartphones etc… all have different microphones, audio chips, different file formats etc… So you get big differences in sound quality between different devices.

      For example I’ve took a proper video camera & a digital image camera which shoots video to Montreal back in 2010. The stuff shot on the video camera had very crisp sound while the stuff filmed on the Digital camera all had sound which was distorted & sounded about 10x louder than on the video camera.

      As to the ‘quiet’ new engines, Doesn’t bother me at all as to me the racing comes 1st & foremost. Yeah sound add’s to the event but I’d rather good racing with cars the drivers are really having to drive than really loud engines but poor racing with drivers having an easier time.

      I’ve been to Montreal every year its been held since 1984 (apart from 2013) & I remember watching the races in the 80s with Turbo’s & it was always fun watching the drivers fighting the cars under acceleration with all the torque/power when the turbo’s kicked in.
      When F1 moved to N/A engines from 1989 with the exception of the V12’s a lot of that was lost as the V8/V10s were a lot more drivable due to having less torque. The V12’s were never very drivable (Its part of why Ferrari moved to the V10) so wheelspin with them was always something that was cool to watch.

      From watching Melbourne on TV it was really fun seeing drivers have to really drive the cars again, Wheelspin exiting corners, Not been able to get to full throttle straght away & the cars moving around more was all a lot more spectacular to watch.

      I said after 2012 that I would not go back to Montreal because I hated what DRS had done to the racing there, Im not considering going again this year just to see all this great show of driving skill again.

      Going back to the 80s, The turbo’s back then were very quiet & nobody complained. I think that the problem now is that its something most current fans haven’t had before, The cars have always been loud for them so losing that is seen as an issue. Older fans are more used to having had much less sound at one point or another so its perhaps less of an issue for them.

      Its the same with anything, Older fans don’t mind the refueling ban or 1-stop races so much because they watched F1 Pre-94 without refueling & where there was a lot less pit stops. Fans who don’t know F1 without refueling seem horrified that its not there anymore & demand there be pit stops, 1-stop races are terrible to them because F1 with few stops is not what there used to.

      F1 cars are quieter now, Not much can be done, The formula isn’t going to be changed back to Non-Turbo’s & I believe racing in general is going to go the same way over the next 10 years so I say that people should just shut up & get used to having a quieter sound to there motor racing.

      1. I also think that when you watch on TV, the sound matters very little; or at least it’s a silly gripe in that medium. It’s another thing, though, to complain in person when the experience feels completely different. But if 20mm people watch a race, and maybe 300k attend it, then only 2% ‘of people’ are affected by the difference. And the average fan probably goes to 1 or fewer races a year, so maybe the relevant harm is done at 5% (1/19) of the races. I think that’s worth noting.

    2. I don’t really mind the sound if the racing is good and technology interesting, but what I find incredibly sad, is that even all those years, the sound on the TV was 100 times less thrilling than this guy filming with his camera…

      All those people watching from home, on TV, could have had 100 times better experience if Bernie ever really bothered with delivering that awesome sound, about absence of which he now moans so much.

      1. Put it this way, there are two categories of fans:

        The TV fans, you can’t make the audio too loud which they can as you will lose the commentary which is very important.

        The track fans who love the sheer volume and vibrations when the car passes you depending on how far you are from the track.
        Also the live atmosphere is wonderful.

        I’m a TV and track fan, so even if you boost this year’s muted sound on TV it does not help. I think its not just the loudness, it’s a low tone so it’s not so audible. V8 has that biting edge and it sure does scream, but on TV it’s not all that loud though but catches your attention.

        The 2014 turbos does not sound the same as the 80s due to the revs and bhp too. The 80s turbos has got much more body in loudness hence fans didn’t complain and I’m sure many had to use earplugs still.

        I’ll be at Sepang so I’ll use the exact video recorder and mic to do a comparison but I feel even the GP2 does sound better.

        Nevertheless as you said if racing is good, it will supersede the sound.

        1. Tanks for sharing your thoughts (no sarcasm), but you spectacularly missed my point. :)

          What I was saying is that even when the sound of cars was good (I’ve seen them live too, but I’m talking about TV sound now), Bernie’s company made no effort to translate its roar to TV, even though a guy in the stands with a basic camera can do it much better.

          As for commentators, I’m finding them annoying, making mistakes and often involved in some pointless drivel. This is not a radio. Truth is, with TV graphics, you barely have any need to commentators any more. Only thing they add is, for example, Brundle’s expert insight into some characteristics of the cars and driving. That’s about that.

          Besides that, I’d rather just listen to engines and tires screaming for 1.5 hours.

    3. I don’t think I can stand a whole season of endless debate about the sound of the engines.

      1. Actually voting should be done soon then we’ll know the percentages of likes and don’t likes to clear up this sound thing. I know how you feel. LOL!

        1. That happened a week or 2 ago.

  3. I’d like to see the Indian Gp come back at some point.
    I like the track layout & thought that it did produce some good racing the 3 years it was on the schedule.

    It was also popular with most the drivers & lets not forget it was a circuit designed using input from some drivers. The sole reason it had the wide entry’s into the corners was because of the driver input, They felt that would encourage overtaking & it worked as we did see some good racing into the corner at the end of the straght in the area which was made wider.

    I know the usual complaint is that Vettel dominated all 3 races (Which made it dull) but thats hardly the circuits fault.

    1. Would be good for them but I can live without an Indian GP. I overcame the loss of Estoril, so I can take this easily :)

      1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        24th March 2014, 11:17

        @jcost – I’m still struggling to come to terms with the loss of Imola…

        1. Imola return would be welcomed @william-brierty

          1. South African GP in Cape Town or Morocco GP will be a welcome not a GP in Baku

  4. India… I just don’t think it’s ready for F1. Don’t take this as a ‘snotty westerner looking down his nose’ post, rather as a fan’s honest opinion.

    The GDP per capita in India is half that of the next-lowest of the countries F1 visits (China), but the ticket prices at Buddh weren’t that cheap. The organisers are supposedly aiming at the middle-class as their ‘target audience’, but an income that passes for middle class in India is pretty much poverty in the west.

    Attending the race would require all but the very highest earners to spend a massive chunk of their income. In a country with no motorsport heritage or history to speak of, no good local drivers or teams, people aren’t going to be prepared to do that. So the target audience is the very highest-earners… and foreigners/Indians abroad.

    As for the government… why would the government of a country with such massive levels of poverty want to be supportive of a sport as elitist as F1? They have more important things to worry about.

    Give it ten years for the economy to develop a little bit, then go back. You can’t dump the rich man’s game that is modern F1 into a place like India and expect it to succeed.

    1. But we do have a Chinese Grand Prix, and as you so very rightly point out, there GDP per capita is very low. The only ‘motorsport heritage’ they have is Macau, but the F1 race takes place in the Chinese heartland of Shanghai. Care to comment?

      1. China is full of money.

      2. I don’t think there is much to say, China probably has better ways to spend millions than organising a GP, but everybody knows how much is chinese government bent on proving to the west they are rich and powerful.

      3. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        24th March 2014, 11:26

        @wsrgo – Yes, I do care to comment. Let’s not have a Chinese GP: the Chinese are clearly not interested and the closest thing to a Formula 1 racing driver the Chinese population of nearly a billion has managed is Ma Qinghua. A moderately competitive home grown racing driver is everything (hence the Chandhok and Kathikeyan derived Indian failure), which is why the Shanghai track, which I rather like the layout of, should be rebuilt in Mexico.

        1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
          24th March 2014, 11:34

          On a subsidiary note, I simply fail to understand how Ma Qinghua has found himself as teammate to a chap I rate right at the sharp end of my own motoring hall of fame.

    2. Your argument would have been valid if like you said, “They have more important things to worry about” was true. Sadly, it is not.
      The only reason why F1 is not coming to India is because of the Government’s inability to understand the economic importance of an event like F1.
      Entertainment tax, and Revenue tax is levied on the teams as soon as they land. Add to that the Customs tax, blah, blah blah tax tax tax and there is no good reason why F1 would be interested to be in India.
      Common sense dictates that the F1 teams do not go to India to sell their cars. And yet, a Customs duty is slapped on the teams for the things that they import temporarily. Stupid bureaucracy like this is the real reason why F1 will not succeed in India.

      1. @rojov123 I don’t blame them . India is not an economically booming market for f1 . What do you think is the economic importance of f1 in India ? Who is going to watch live ? which driver is there for Indians to support ? How will Ferrari make and market hatchbacks ? It is beyond most people in India to understand what goes on in the race because there is less history than other countries and even lesser way forward to aspiring racers .There isn’t a Schumacher or Alonso or Webber .Nor is there a path laid out for youngsters to achieve such greatness. It is not a good solution for economic success. Believe me that is the only thing any government views. They would not subsidize tax or help the event in anyway unless there is something massive to gain from it . F-1 will remain an elite and a luxury sport in India .India played it’s first cricket match in 1932 ( This game was introduced even before through the Brits who ruled ). The first F-1 race was held in 1950. Given some time for a significant motorsport presence , India can be up there someday .

    3. I am inclined to agree with you .I understand your logical reasoning and the priorities of f1 . Motorsport interest must be developed gradually and not the “Bernie way” . I am equally shocked that France does not have a Grand Prix . I know that anyone reading and involving in this forum will have a craze of f1 despite their country of origin . But knowing that some of the countries that have a great history of motorsports do not find space in the calendar is painful .India will reach there eventually , but it needs its time . Facilities need to be developed and lower rungs of racing need to be established ( I know we have MRF cup , VW cup etc etc,but it needs to be more ) . Then , the final piece of the puzzle , a star f1 driver from India with the caliber of past legends . That ought to do the job . But till then , it’s not gonna be a hit even if it takes place . But I am ever grateful that F-1 came to India and I could , for the first time and perhaps for the last ,hear the roaring v8 f1 unit nearly deafen my ears and to witness history being made as Vettel added one more to his showcase. I wouldn’t say it was too much of a pinch too . I got one of the cheapest park tickets for about 100 $ with transport included ( of course the conversion rate is hard on us chaps ).But yeah, it would be prudent to say the grandstands elude most of us .

    4. Its not like India doesn’t have money.just look at the amount we spend on cricket. Look up the Indian Premier League(IPL)… huge amount of money is being spend. The fact is F1 as a sport/entertainment just hasn’t got enough exposure to make Indian people invest in it or support it

      1. There is a huge difference Cricket is your national sport watched and played by millions and most of the games sell out. IPL funds itself. Motorsport has little history in India it is nothing but a rich man’s curiosity and the F1 race appears to not make a substantial profit, otherwise there would be no question of it continuing.

        1. Funny story actually Hockey is our national sport but cricket is the most popular.

  5. GB (@bgp001ruled)
    24th March 2014, 4:01

    JohnnyT: if F1 at Long Beach would be such a hellhole of an event then JUST DONT SHOW UP THERE THE WEEK F1 TAKES PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. RE COTD: i don’t understand why the rules, customs and traditions applicable to one event will automatically affect the other one. if it’s profitable and popular, it will be incredibly unwise to change the system. in the end it will be a matter of personal choice to attend it or not.

    1. I would think it be wise to setup for an F1 weekend and maybe the next weekend (or prior weekend) have an Indy race. Yes, it may cause a headache, but who cares?

  7. If it is dependent upon the next government, then I don’t think the grand prix is coming back for another 2 years. The sentiment in India is not towards spending on “entertainment” like F1. But only towards what people actually need.

  8. The govt wont invest unless it(politicians) gets a direct profit from it…..and the party which is being tipped to win the election is seen as business-friendly, so hope it works out.

  9. The Guardian article is very good. This new season is only “one GP old” and Mercedes Benz has already produced marketing material bragging about their Power Unit and how important it is for road cars… I have no doubt that in 10 years time, this technology will be common place for road cars.

    1. I was a bit left in the dark where all those numbers come from… F1 cars safe 40% of fuel now, applying this technology to road cars could global oil consumption by 2%.
      Granted, 2 percent of the global consumption is a huge number still, but doesn’t it show how little influence cars actually have? Shouldn’t we concentrate on other areas that use and pollute much more, before wasting money and development time on motor vehicles?
      Is the combustion engine even relevant (for new cars) in 10 years? Shouldn’t we already talk heavily about fuel cells and possibly fully electric cars (at least for inner city traffic)?

      1. @dennis

        Probably those numbers come from back-of-the-envelope calculations because I don’t think it comes from a tested econometric model. But if cars can run on 30-40% less fuel, global consumption should fall sharply (in my book, anything above 2% consumption in a world with more people and more machines is a huge achievement).

        I expect this techonology to be improved and become the norm for new cars in a decade if not less and in two decades hybrid powered cars should represent over 50% of cars in the streets.

        1. Perhaps cars are only a small percentage of our global hydrocarbon needs hence the small percentage. Which implies these fuel saving technologies are not applicable in all sectors, like the jet engine for instance and other turbine power generating plants based on hydrocarbons.

      2. Shouldn’t we concentrate on other areas that use and pollute much more, before wasting money and development time on motor vehicles?

        Well ‘we’ aren’t concentrating on it. The car manufacturers and F1 teams are. Surprisingly enough, they are interested in things related to cars. AI don’t s why you think it’s a waste of money. It’s unfortunate that the teams have to pay a bit more for the PUs, but the idea that all the R&D money which the engine manufacturers themselves have spent has been ‘wasted’ makes no sense- they are corporations, and they wouldn’t spend a load of money if they thought it was a waste. You can’t realistically expect huge companies to forget their industry and bankrupt themselves by developing methane containers that fit on the back of a cow instead of continuing to create developments which are actually applicable to the market they understand and operate in.

        Shouldn’t we already talk heavily about fuel cells and possibly fully electric cars (at least for inner city traffic)?

        Fuel cells require hydrogen, and now and for the foreseeable future, the emissions cost in actually processing all that hydrogen is more than just using oil.

        1. *’AI’ should be ‘And I’.

  10. @keithcollantine You should’ve mentioned yesterday’s season opening Motogp race at Qatar and incredible duel between Rossi and Marquez. It was amazing and showed motorsport in it’s most glorious state.

    It’s hard to see such duels in F1 these days for various of reasons. First of all, F1 drivers, unlike Motogp racers, can’t push to the limit without thinking about saving fuel or tyres. Second, F1 has that silly DRS thing, which just allows faster driver to blast past slower one and never look back again. Of course, ridding off DRS wouldn’t help, because drivers would settle for position because of fuel saving.

    I remember spectacular battles between Hakkinen and Schumacher, Schumacher and Raikkonen. And that was real racing.

    New regulations for 2014 didn’t really change anything. Tyre saving was replaced with fuel saving and that’s it. Of course, we only saw one race so far, but I can’t see anything changing.

    I think, I’ll turn more attention this season to Motogp races if such duels will be more frequent.

    1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
      24th March 2014, 11:38

      @osvaldas31 – Would you be talking about a form of motorsport that uses less than four wheels? You are? HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!! On a lighter note, I too am still struggling to get over the adrenaline rush of yesterday’s race…Melanie Sykes ruined it though…

    2. it’s futile comparing MotoGP to Formula1. The only thing they have in common is that they have engines and tyres.
      It isn’t very easy to overtake in MotoGP despite the fact they take up less surface area on track, because you can fit about 6 or more bikes in the same area you would ordinarily fit one F1 car, but you don’t see them running 3 abreast round the circuits. Yet MotoGP bikes can take 2 or 3 different lines round some bends but only 1 line is still the optimal line
      The weight and size of a driver/Rider is more pronounced in MotoGP than it is in F1.

    3. I do think this a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. The MotoGP race was incredible, but the majority of races in MotoGP just aren’t. We were very fortunate last year with Marquez running away and Lorenzo giving it everything from Silverstone onwards (including a great mixed strategy decider), but it wasn’t long ago the MotoGP was suffering from boring races and dwindling numbers. Their solution was much the same as F1’s (Although there’s no way F1 would be able to implement a CRT-style class).
      I’m as big a Rossi fan as the next MotoGP follower, but I’m willing to bet anything that Lorenzo is now better than him, and Lorenzo would have easily won that race if he hadn’t fallen off. It wasn’t the rules that produced interesting racing, it was that first lap (and the characteristics of the track throughout the race)
      Also, it’s a bit unfair to judge F1 and MotoGP on the basis of just one race. I think F1 will have a better season than MotoGP this year, it’s just a question of time…

    4. Agree, it was an abolsutely epic race. I have religiously watched F1, MotoGP and V8 Supercars now for the last 12-15 years and over that time, MotoGP has had by far the best wheel to wheel racing. Sure, there is the odd dull race but overall it beats the other series for action hands down. There was a duel at Phillip Island in 2003 I think it was, between Rossi and Gibernau which was undoubtedly the best motor race I have ever watched. They just traded blows every corner, it was mind blowing. I still love F1 the best but there are times where I pine for that sort of action in an F1 race.

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