F1’s new engines could reduce its appeal – Vettel

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Bahrain International Circuit, 2014In the round-up: Sebastian Vettel renews his criticism of F1’s new engine formula.

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Vettel erneuert Kritik an Formel-1-Technikrevolution (Focus, German)

“We are a sport that is famous for being loud and dangerous. We run the risk of losing the essence of motor sport.”

Mercedes enlist help of psychologist (The Telegraph)

Lewis Hamilton’s Mercedes team have turned to the sports psychologist credited with helping the All Blacks [New Zealand rugby team] overcome their reputation as serial World Cup chokers, in a bid to maintain their dominant start to the season.”

Lauda: ’14 F1 domination a tougher job (Autosport)

“If you have shi*** engines like last year, and nine races in a row like Vettel, to finish all of them, this is easy. But to do the same now, with four races in a row, I think is an outstanding performance.”

Hätte Leimer für 25 Millionen bei Sauber fahren können? (Blick, German)

Reigning GP2 champion Fabio Leimer is claimed to have offered Sauber 12 million Swiss francs (£8.1m) for a drive this year but one of their current drivers Esteban Gutierrez is paying £16.9m.

Video – the Formula One steering wheel, 2014 style (F1)

“As a result of 2014’s substantial regulation changes, steering wheels have evolved significantly this season. Here we take a look at the differences between Ferrari’s 2013 and 2014 models.”

Nigel Stepney obituary (The Guardian)

“Recruited by the English chief designer, John Barnard, to help pull a demoralised outfit together, he moved into a house in the hills above Maranello, the team’s base, and quickly discovered that Ferrari’s capomeccanico enjoyed a status similar to that of other teams’ star drivers. An instant celebrity, he found that he was seldom required to pay for a drink or a meal.”

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Comment of the day

Michael reckons Hamilton deserves credit for joining Mercedes in the first place:

Now, in retrospect everything’s obvious but at the time Mercedes had won only a single race since their return and were atrocious around the time that Lewis signed. They just couldn’t look any worse than they had.

It took crazy guts to do that. Just as in his driving, Lewis’s decision was immaculate and he should win the drivers’ championship for that decision alone…

Hamilton’s move to Mercedes is as impressive as his ability to hold off Rosberg at Bahrain. The guy’s just amazing, just when you think you’ve seen his best, he does something crazy.
Michael (@Freelittlebirds)

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On this day in F1

Alain Prost extended his lead over Derek Warwick in the world championship with victory in the San Marino Grand Prix 30 years ago today.

Warwick’s Renault was classified fourth behind Elio de Angelis, who ran out of fuel on the final lap, and the second-placed Ferrari of Rene Arnoux.

This was the only race of his F1 career that Ayrton Senna failed to qualify for. Tyre supplier Pirelli had blocked them from participating in the first day of practice, aware the team was about to switch to rivals Michelin. A technical glitch on Saturday prevented Senna for qualifying for what would have been his fourth F1 start.

So the race got away without him – and very nearly Keke Rosberg as well, who got away slowly for the second race in a row:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ndVXFCFHD0

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157 comments on F1’s new engines could reduce its appeal – Vettel

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  1. Carrick Stonehouse (@cstonehouse) said on 6th May 2014, 0:04

    Can somebody please give Vettel a trophy just to shut him up?
    Yes, to some F1 loses some of it’s appeal with the new engines (I like it; progress-ly) but using the childish tactic of keep asking until you get your own way is bad.

    • andrea said on 6th May 2014, 0:09

      *its

    • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 0:16

      The idea that ridiculously loud engines are the essence of motorsport is stupid and pretty ignorant of many great forms of motorsport. And I don’t see how it’s gotten any less dangerous this year.

      On the other hand, he did deride super-double-mega-bonus round.

      • BJ (@beejis60) said on 6th May 2014, 0:38

        I’m not into drag racing at all, but if you ever get a chance to watch top fuel dragsters or funny cars go around 300mph or higher across four seconds, that’s quite a scene and hard to imagine without insanely loud engines.

        • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 0:52

          Yes, but drag racing is a very specific type of motorsport. When the cars only go in a straight line I would imagine that sound is far more integral to the spectacle and appeal of watching it. Vettel saying ‘motorsport’ as a general term was incorrect, as plenty of motorsports have engines quieter than current F1 and don’t have less ‘essence’.

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 6th May 2014, 1:31

            F1 cars also go in straight line…

            People that say that sound isn’t a “deal breaker” for F1 never next to track hosting a GP, let alone being inside a GP. The loud and different sound makes what’s called the “atmosfere”, and it makes for an esqusite sensation… and that’s one of the main reasons to pay hundreds of cash to watch a GP, to fell what you can’t feel on TV

          • Dwight_js said on 6th May 2014, 3:06

            @matt90 What do you mean, it’s “incorrect”? It’s his opinion. Before he was an f1 pilot, he was a fan who was inspired as a little kid by the thunder of the engines that you feel in your chest while they’re not even in view yet. If he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t like it – get over it.

          • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 3:25

            It’s an opinion which doesn’t make sense. If he was talking about F1 it would, but generalising all motorsport as relying heavily on volume to have any kind of essence is nonsense. He also doesn’t phrase it as an opinion (although maybe that’s been lost in translation). He states that volume is the essence of motorsport- not specifically for him. If he doesn’t like it that’s fine (and good to see a driver actually giving his own opinion), but he should explain it coherently and without putting his own opinions on all fans. Also, the sound is a target which seems misplaced. It’s certainly not going to change within this year, and there is already a group looking at what could be done for next year. So strongly and repeatedly criticising the sound just talks down the sport, which has happened so much already this year, often for the wrong reasons. Pointing out the stupidity of double points at least hopefully works towards them getting rid of it next year.

          • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 10:43

            When the cars only go in a straight line

            F1 cars also go in straight line…

            The key word you missed there is only.

          • canadianjoe (@canadianjoe) said on 6th May 2014, 16:42

            When people listen to their favorite music they tend to increase the volume, because by doing so they also increase the enjoyment. The new engines just don’t cut it for most fans. check out this clip, its a good comparison of 2013 and 2014
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS4Dh_EAfJI

          • Dwight_js said on 6th May 2014, 17:33

            @matt90 It’s an opinion that doesn’t make sense to you – that doesn’t make it wrong. That’s the great thing about opinions, they are completely subjective. We’re talking about a philosophical debate here, we’re all free to believe what we want, and none of us is wrong. The interviewer asked for an opinion, and the interviewee gave an opinion – and yes, it was *his* opinion. What in the article leads you to believe that anybody was talking for you? I didn’t see “and matt90 knows I’m right!” written anywhere. Why would Seb be speak for anyone but himself?

          • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 18:07

            Okay, so when I said ‘incorrect’ it might have been a bit strong. Instead I should have said under-developed and unexplained.

            Where he said “We run the risk of losing the essence of motor sport.” As I said, perhaps something was lost in translation. To me, as it is, it reads as ‘the essence of all motorsport is danger and loudness.’ If that isn’t a bold and divisive statement (considering a lot of people surely just take the essence of motor sport as being motor +sport) then I don’t know what is, considering the many fantastic forms of racing which exist and are surely quieter than current F1.

        • MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla) said on 6th May 2014, 6:07

          @beejis60 you do realize that there are electric powered dragsters that are in the low 7s high 6s…probably not since drag racing isn’t your thing. And they make far less noise and accelerate faster than many top tier race cars that people tend to complain about and the experience of speed isn’t any different to the driver at the end of the day. The fans think to much of themselves when it comes to racing, and at the end of the day we fans are only a piece the entirety of racing could probably get on with out us just to for the ego of winning.

          I’ve been to drag race events in person and though the electric cars are not yet 300 mph machines, soon some day they will be and people will have to except the silence. Innovation trumps any whimsical nostalgia or scenic aspirations.

          • Osvaldas31 (@osvaldas31) said on 6th May 2014, 10:26

            @magillagorilla I wouldn’t call electric (racing) cars as innovation. First of all, first electric vehicles were invented one hundred or so years ago. Second, electric cars does not make much sense and I doubt they are the future, more as current fashion. People imagine that they are clean, but they aren’t. Process of making electricity also polutes atmosphere, especially if you make electricity from coal (currently most electricity in the world comes from coal, which is very dirty fuel).

            I don’t really like current engines, but you could call them near future, because efficiency is the real “green” technology.

            Talking about further future, I would say hydrogen powered cars have the most perpective.

          • MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla) said on 7th May 2014, 2:37

            @osvaldas31 in the sense of applications yes it is innovative just as VVT and selective cylinder drives (AFM) are for gasoline powered vehicles compared to those of 80 years ago. No one said it was new, and new =/= innovative.

            Also each application of energy harvesting have pollution aspects to them, people are vastly big on hydrogen fuel (me as well), but the process to make it is quite prone to pollution. And thus probably will be in the same path as all “green vehicles” they’ll have a market but no one energy source will be the Prince of the mole hill.

      • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 6th May 2014, 4:38

        @matt90 I don’t see it as ridiculous. He’s shared his own experience, given arguments about it. He explained plenty of times what he felt the first time he saw a F1 car in person, and I couldn’t agree more.

        I still remember the time I went to see an exhibition of the Williams BMW in 2004 here in Buenos Aires. When the car started and rolled out of the pitlane, everyone went totally silent and the sound of it intoxicated the people. Argies are known to be quite loud at sporting events but during those laps, everyone was just slient.

        I vividly remember standing at Ascari corner seeing the car coming, the roar of that 3.0 V10 engine heading towards me, watching it go past, THEN hearing the noise blast and THEN the sound of the wind.

        It was absolutely mindblowing. It’s something that’s now gone and I doubt it’ll ever return, but it does impact you. Imagine in the next 20 years or so, when cars go silent, you’ll be saying the same thing. I guess that’s his feeling towards it.

        I personally quite like the new sounds, but I don’t see why Vettel cannot share his opinion on the matter. He doesn’t like it, who are we to judge that? specially with such arguments.

        The weird thing is that… he’s saying what Mark Webber was saying last year, that this formula was not that appealing to him.

        • MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla) said on 6th May 2014, 6:10

          @Fer-no65 Many of us have experienced that on multiple occasions, and it’s irrelevant and only shows personal bias. The sports are about technology and winning and being fast all of which they are still doing, noises and smells are only secondary to what is primary. Telling a sorry of emotional knee jerking, rather than looking and the great logical engineering feats because noise is gone, is quite childish. (on Vettel’s part)

          • dennis (@dennis) said on 6th May 2014, 8:37

            There still has to be room for criticism… They are still fast and winning and about technology with double points. Yet that idea is stupid.

        • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 10:46

          Again, you’re talking about only F1. Vettel was not. Does Argentinian touring cars racing not have the essence of motorsport because it’s not as loud as F1 was last year?

          • Ricardo Ferreira (@yes-master) said on 6th May 2014, 14:59

            Vettel: “We are a sport that is famous for being loud and dangerous. We run the risk of losing the essence of motor sport.” Agree entirely!!! But, as I see it, in this neo-liberal society, F1 spirit is about winning with ecological cars, with low costs in fuel and team organization…and huge profits for those who organize races, celebrate GP contracts, and sell cars. Engine noise nor sense of danger are considered any more. And don’t even try to complain, because if you do, you’re considered an idiot, distant from reality. But I’m with you Vettel. Please, don’t stop complaining!

            @matt90 : “It’s an opinion which doesn’t make sense.” For you other’s opinions don’t ever make sense…Probably my impression. But, I think everyone understands that he was mentioning F1 as the core of Motorsport. And is it not? And if it fails, doesn’t it reflect on the other levels of Motorsport? That’s why, for me, what it says does make every sense.

      • Rooney (@rojov123) said on 6th May 2014, 6:52

        Imagine there are two kinds of racing. One with an full electric motor(Formula E) and one with a turbocharged V10 engine. The speeds/Aero/drivers are the same. Which kind of racing would you prefer.? The one with the screaming V10 or the one where the only sound is the tyre squeal?.
        The answer to a simple question like this would determine if people prefer loud noises or otherwise.

        • John H (@john-h) said on 6th May 2014, 8:19

          But that’s not the question, its not a single objective problem. For example, many people see F1 at the forefront of technology, and a V10 normally aspirated engine is not.

          It’s more complex than you make out @rojov123

          • dennis (@dennis) said on 6th May 2014, 8:43

            Which is funny, considering the outdated technology produced some of the most powerful engines F1 had ever seen. But apparently “forefront of technology” for many people has nothing to do with speed, nor improving the show.

          • Rooney (@rojov123) said on 6th May 2014, 11:24

            @john-h It is not so complex. It was a simple question as to how many fans would prefer the screaming V10s over the completely quite and green electric motors if the racing was the same. So, the only variable in question is the engine and the sound. You said “many people see F1 at the forefront of technology, and a V10 normally aspirated engine is not.”. Considering that a fully electric motor which can last a race distance will be much more “forefront of technology” than the presently existing hybrids, The million dollar question is – How many present formula 1 fans would prefer completely silent electric engines over the V10s? The question is as simple as it can get.

          • Dan K said on 8th May 2014, 0:32

            @dennis – If the turbo cars were allowed to use the same fuel and revs as the non-Turbo cars, I think we’d all see the turbo cars would be much faster. As it sits they’re limited by the FIA via fuel usage. They’re using what is it, 60% less fuel and less downforce to turn the times they are currently.

            The v6 cars will never sound as good as the NA V10 cars. It’s just the nature of engines, the turbo cars will always be quieter and less exotic sounding. Especially when they’re revving lower. But the “green” benefits are so obvious it’s incredible: these cars are putting out more power with considerably less fuel. They just don’t sound sexy. That sexy sound energy is being recycled into power via turbos.

        • Optimaximal (@optimaximal) said on 6th May 2014, 8:40

          @rojov123 Honestly, if Formula E was developed enough to produce better racing, it would be a no brainer.

          • Rooney (@rojov123) said on 6th May 2014, 11:29

            If both races were held at the same time in tracks that are close to each other, It would also be a no-brainer that the track hosting the electric version would be mostly empty of spectators. Almost all of them would be at the track which has the V10s.
            Doesn’t that explain it?

        • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 11:59

          But we aren’t talking about a choice between lots of noise and no noise.

        • DaveD (@daved) said on 6th May 2014, 20:39

          Rooney, @rojov123 , You’re asking a false question. The two choices are not extreme noise or no noise, but somewhere in between for both. If you like extreme noise, then go to drag races. Even V10 era F1 sounds pathetic compared to a drag racer, so is it lesser for it?
          The other problem is your comparison of Formula E to F1 and pretending the noise is the deciding factor. That is complete KahKah. FE is a new series that doesn’t go nearly as fast yet. Come back in 10 years when it’s had time to develop the tech and has cars turning the same lap times as F1 and then ask that question. THEN you can find out which people prefer.

          • Rooney (@rojov123) said on 8th May 2014, 9:53

            This is not about what kind of noise level I like. It is simply a question to gauge any fan’s preference. It is a question put forth to both the lovers and haters of the new F1 sound. A lot of people have said-“We don’t care about the sound as long as the racing is good”. Don’t bring other sports into it to challenge and falsely refute the question.
            As for comparing FE and F1, I didn’t. I specifically said “The speeds/Aero/drivers are the same.”
            The fact that you are bluntly evading the question and replying without actually reading anything and trying to bring completely irrelevant points(drag race sound..seriously? Why not just go to an airport and sit under a aircraft engine) has made it clear that you are simply creating an unwarranted debate only to suit your own views.

      • JCost (@jcost) said on 6th May 2014, 7:11

        +1.

        In ten years time al major motorsport categories will be much quieter than they were used to be. Seb, get over it.

        • dennis (@dennis) said on 6th May 2014, 8:44

          Oh, please…

          “There won’t be any supercars after the Bugatti Veyron. – Jeremy Clarkson ~ 2005.”

          • Tiomkin said on 6th May 2014, 10:00

            And yet the latest and greatest super cars have hi-bred engines controlled by computers. Watch Top Gear to see them in action. They blow away conventional ‘super’ cars.

          • KeeleyObsessed (@keeleyobsessed) said on 6th May 2014, 23:44

            @dennis And I still believe him. There have been plenty of ‘great’ cars, but the Bugatti Veyron still is the ultimate say in supercars for me, and no doubt many others. This has been the case for almost a decade (just typing that is making me seem old at 19 now) and therefore it is not unreasonable to say that Clarkson is right (and will continue to be right until something comes along that can top the Veyron, I’m not holding out on that)

    • Anjistho Basu (@roxtarisback) said on 6th May 2014, 5:30

      The point Vettel made was from his perspective, nothing to be said about that. But repeating the same thing over and over does make one look like a little girl. Jenson Button said somewhere (I think in Malaysia), that if Vettel doesn’t like the sport, he should do something else.

      I have been to only one race in my life. It was the V8 era (2011 or 12), and after the race start, I had a five minute headache. That’s when I decided never to watch a race on track. I can only imagine what it’s like to be inside the cockpit for nearly 2 hours. So I have no idea what he’s complaining about.

      Actually, I have a hunch — Vettel always whines about everything unless they go his way.

      • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 6th May 2014, 8:32

        @roxtarisback So, if you can’t stand loud noises, then you can’t understand what he’s complaining about? Wow, as it happens quite a few people(the majority I would say) like the unique super-loud noise of F1 and agree with him and not with you. But yeah since he doesn’t agree with you, its Vettel who always complains. Pathetic

        • Optimaximal (@optimaximal) said on 6th May 2014, 8:44

          @montreal95 The point is, it’s all subjective for everyone. @roxtarisback was talking about the V8’s. Several people, myself included, have experience of the V10 era, which was a different,more palatable noise – still massively loud but less ear-piercing.

          The new PUs are much more intricate and interesting to listen to. No longer is the entire operation of the car blanketed out aurally by a wall of noise.

          • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 6th May 2014, 8:57

            @optimaximal I agree completely. I didn’t like the V8 noise, it was dull and paled in comparison to the V10. I also like the complexity of the new engine noise, even if I’d prefer it to be louder

            But the post I was replying to wasn’t written from a purely subjective point of view. It was like: I can’t stand loud noises(on a sidenote I specifically made a point of removing the ear-plugs once in a while in the race and during the start for a few secs, and never had any headaches), therefore no one can, so the complaining is not reasonable, and purely ’cause its SV. Disrespectful and patronizing in the extreme

      • Ricardo Ferreira (@yes-master) said on 6th May 2014, 15:19

        @montreal95: “So I have no idea what he’s complaining about.” Well, I have to be honest. I have no idea how you’re a F1 fanatic…

      • uan (@uan) said on 6th May 2014, 16:40

        @roxtarisback

        “But repeating the same thing over and over does make one look like a little girl. Jenson Button …”

        Doesn’t Jenson go on like a little girl about the lack of pace in the McLaren, etc…?

        So one: he should leave McLaren
        two: shut up.
        three: stop answering the same questions posed to him over and over again or

        four: perhaps fans should realize drivers don’t run around seeking journalists and media folks to talk to so they can whing about some issue.

        I can see your (and others) criticism if Vettel was out on Twitter posting these musings. But of the top drivers, he actually doesn’t have a Twitter account. Very thoughtful of him really. He’s asked a question and then answers it.

        99% of what gets circulated as news is not news. The only thing new in Spain will be whatever updates that are brought and whether they work. Though the reporting will be all rather repetitive with such insightful questions as:

        “Do you think these upgrades will work?”
        “Will you continue to try and improve your car for this weekend?”
        “Will you try to qualify on Saturday?”
        “Will you try to finish and finish well on Sunday?”

        Burning questions we fans all MUST know! lol.

    • Tasimana said on 6th May 2014, 7:06

      If you’ve been to an F1 race under the old regs the cars were so loud it was ridiculous. I mean ear plugs on you the kids the wife or you’d suffer. Mind you I’d still like to wear ear plugs around the wife!

    • WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 6th May 2014, 8:05

      @cstonehouse – Whilst that is potentially a touch overt, Vettel in 2014 is certainly a bit of a puzzle. This should be the season in which Vettel proves his quality beyond doubt and that he is not merely flattered by a dominant car, but instead people like me, who were hoping for an end to absurd allegations of averageness on the part of Vettel, have been profoundly disappointed. He has been average, and compared to Ricciardo, you could even say he has been lacklustre. And off the track the sunny outlook and joke-a-minute Vettel of 2013 is gone, instead replaced by a more downbeat, reflective Sebastian. But why? That, I think, is the most juicy question raised by 2014 so far…

      Those that look at the Chinese GP and say “ahah! I told you it was the car!” are deluded. Sebastian Vettel is quite simply one of finest racing drivers to have graced the cockpit of an F1 car, and there quite obviously a tangible reason for his emphatic downturn in form. I would attribute it to a mixture of driving style and experience. The nature of Vettel’s career so far is rather out of the ordinary, in that ever since he signed for Red Bull in just his second full season, he has had a car capable of a podium at worst, and utterly dominant at best. By comparison, a substantial chunk of Alonso’s career has been spent dragging more average cars further up the grid, so Fernando has been naturally impressive this year. Vettel already rolled the car through the apex with plenty of throttle before F1, but it was a style that perfectly suited the exhaust blown diffuser, and Vettel tailored it further in 2011 to incorporate the Pirelli tyres. Vettel made the shift from Bridgestone to Pirelli rubber so seamlessly that many thought (myself included) such versatility would aid the transition in 2014, but that hasn’t been the case. Was the constant presence of unrivaled levels of Newey grip a dominant factor in Vettel’s seamless tyre transition? Without the rear grip of the past, and with the immense torque preventing Vettel from throttling up early, as he did before, his old style is defunct. Vettel will find a new way, but it may take a while.

      What is arguably more interesting is Vettel’s new demeanour. Is he, like Hamilton in 2013, simply angry with himself for not extracting the maximum from the car? Is he depressed in the knowledge that he won’t be able, in all likelihood, to fight for the championship this year? In which case, is he reasonably expecting to win the title every year in F1? Is he alienated with the new era of F1? Is it the effect of a newly competitive teammate? Yes, Vettel is not driving at his best, but I have no doubt that Ricciardo is doing a substantially better job relative to Vettel than Webber was doing in previous years. I do hope Vettel is not down merely because the chances of a fifth consecutive title look bleak, especially whilst fellow champions Button, Alonso and Raikkonen remain motivated in slower cars with even bleaker prospects. That said, if Vettel is taking the purist’s line and is alienated with the new era, we might see him “do a Webber” within a few years, which would see F1 lose one of its very finest. Vettel, like his Spanish and Finnish equivalents, is something of an enigma…

      • Robbie (@robbie) said on 6th May 2014, 12:50

        @william-brierty Agreed, and as I had mentioned in a post yesterday, given that RBR felt ‘conspired against’ when they (all) had EBD effect reduced greatly, and given Mateschitz verbiage about pulling out of F1 not being ruled out, I wonder if there is an atmosphere that is pervasive on the team that they have been greatly conspired against with this wholely new formula and where it has left them. Perhaps they feel robbed, even though the other side of that coin is that they had the same chance as everyone to nail this year’s car, but didn’t. We’ll never know the answer but it would be hard to imagine hearing the same things from SV and Mateschitz if they had remained dominant out of the box. DR has never had it so good as to be at RBR so is just carrying on with it while the team is stuck lamenting no longer having what they had.

        I think, like others, that SV is sounding like he is pouting, but it can’t be easy for any driver to have had what he has had and then no longer have it, and have everything now be a struggle. That said, I would have preferred to see him more grateful for all that he has on his CV, and just bear down and take up this new challenge. If he could do that, and come back and win another WDC next year or the one after, it might be his most special and memorable one for the greater struggle it took to get there. Meanwhile he gets to be rich and famous all the while doing what he loves…although…if he no longer loves it…

        • WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 6th May 2014, 17:55

          @robbie – Personally, I have been profoundly disappointed by Red Bull’s attitude, and particularly Vettel’s. In a year where he should be proving that he is competitive even outside of a dominant car he is appearing bitter because, as you say, it is difficult to imagine such comments if he was winning. Maybe he is a true F1 purist, and I would respect him if he is, but I simply can’t imagine him attacking a sport if it continued to be the stage of his own supreme dominance.

          • Andre Urquiza (@dre01ss) said on 6th May 2014, 19:05

            I have been profoundly disappointed by Red Bull’s attitude

            Specially considering their engine supplier was the one requesting the engine formula change.

          • WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 7th May 2014, 11:21

            @dre01ss – To be fair Mercedes too lobbied for the change owing to the fact that had kept developing KERS technology even after it was abandoned following 2009. The incredible straight line speed the W02 managed was attributed at the time to a larger DRS slot gap, we know now it had more to do with how advanced Mercedes’ KERS technology was.

      • Ricardo Ferreira (@yes-master) said on 6th May 2014, 15:33

        @william-brierty, agree with almost everything you said. The problem is Vettel is feeling what every champion feels when they don’t have the package to fight for the win (the car is the issue, not the driver or the team. In the original article, he compares the car with a person or an animal, like a relation between jokey and horse per example. He says the car doesn’t talk to him any more). He knows that and he’s angry. With himself, with the rules, with all the world! And, to me, as a fan, it is a delight to watch him angry like that. Is the proof that he hasn’t felt into depression. He wants to fight! And he has to! He’s a forth winning F1 champion. And, like you said, and I complete, he’s one the finest pilots ever, without any doubt. So, I know, he’ll do better. I’m sure of it.

        • WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 6th May 2014, 17:43

          @yes-master – That’s not quite what I said. Vettel certainly had the best style to cope with the previous era of F1, but it was only a partially engineered solution: in other words, he’s always rolled the car through corners. But, due to the fact that there is no stylistic carry over for driving in 2014 (unless you have a “classical” style like Hamilton, or, like the styles of Alonso and Button, use a more front-limited style), and therefore Vettel is faced with the ultimate challenge in motorsport: to completely change his driving style. If he achieves this, his greatness is secure, but it will take time, and in that time the inevitable Mercedes champion success (I would be profoundly disappointed in Vettel if the root of his new found misery is simply the fact that he will inevitably not take the title this year – no driver can reasonably expect titles every year) and better results on the opposite side of the garage may start to take their mental toll. Can we place Vettel in the same league as Alonso, among the true greats of our sport? Vettel’s results this year, and moreover his motivation will go some way towards answering that…

          • Ricardo Ferreira (@yes-master) said on 6th May 2014, 19:09

            @william-brierty, I completed what you said “Sebastian Vettel is quite simply one of finest racing drivers to have graced the cockpit of an F1 car…” with my answer to your doubt about “Vettel’s new demeanour”.
            As to your recent comment, you see, for me is quite simple. You can have whatever driving style you want, but in the end, to win, you have to have a great car. And Vettel doesn’t have one this year. That’s the existential problem he’s living with and not the possibility of loosing one championship. For what I understand, he wants a competitive car and to feel the F1 adrenaline, with engine noise, etc. I want too, as a fan. But, things have changed, so he has to adapt himself. Won’t be easy, specially with so many negative comments around his public thoughts.
            But, don’t have doubts, for me, his greatness is well secured. He won 4 titles, doesn’t need to proof nothing more. And history will always remind him as true great. Hence, my question: are you an Alonso fanatic? “Can we place Vettel in the same league as Alonso, among the true greats of our sport?” Because, for my point of view, Alonso has to look up, not the other way around. IMO, they are amazing drivers. But, for now, Vettel is better as he won more.

          • WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 7th May 2014, 11:13

            @yes-master

            You can have whatever driving style you want, but in the end, to win, you have to have a great car.

            Not true. Motorsport is littered with examples of careers ruined by an inability to engineer driving solutions to car balances. Mark Webber in the Pirelli era would be one example, Nelson Piquet in the non-turbo cars another, and what any journalist or engineer will therefore tell you is that the best drivers are the ones that can change their driving styles (if you saw DTM at the weekend you would also note that whilst di Resta was struggling readapting to DTM cars, da Costa adapted to them easily). Vettel must adapt, it will take time, he’s starting from zero, but theoretically the Singapore GP will tell us whether Vettel is going to feature in coming championship fights in the new era. If Vettel succeeds, and if the RB11 can match the W06, I would imagine that all the “whinging” will stop.

            Vettel is better as he won more.

            Whilst I don’t want to turn this into “my favourite driver is better than your favourite driver”, I can’t help but criticize your criteria for greatness. Is Schumacher therefore unrivaled in status? I am an admirer of Alonso (as the #14 avatar makes blatantly obvious), but I have no qualms in admitting he is a poor qualifier. And yet, as someone who knows about vehicular dynamics, I have absolutely no doubts over the fact that he is the not only the best on the grid, but one of the all time greats. Vettel by comparison has lead something of a privileged career and simply doesn’t have the experience of a below par car that Alonso has; and it’s showing. That said, Vettel is a great racing driver, and has been handed an opportunity to become an all time great, let’s hope, if only to silence his critics, that he succeeds…

          • Ricardo Ferreira (@yes-master) said on 7th May 2014, 12:54

            You can have whatever driving style you want, but in the end, to win, you have to have a great car.

            Didn’t said that driving style was not relevant. Simply pointed that, aside the driving style, the car is also a nuclear part of the winning equation (pilot+car+team). But, most of times, the car, as the result of the other efforts combined, tends to be the most important part of the equation. Probably I’m wrong, but that’s not important.

            I can’t help but criticize your criteria for greatness

            That’s not my criteria. That’s History’s criteria, an objective one. Schumacher is the best pilot ever as he won more. However, my (subjective) criteria says different: Senna is/was the best pilot. But, It’s all about memory. Our generation knows Senna to be the best pilot ever, because we saw him racing. But, for future generations probably won’t be like that. And for those, records will count more. The same happens with other sports. People tend to choose those who win more. And what Schumacher won makes him, by far, the most succeeded F1 pilot ever. That said, I would like to watch Alonso and Vettel trying to get there. They have the talent and the will, and the team. But not the car.
            And now, a little secret: they are my actual favourite pilots in F1.

          • WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 7th May 2014, 20:41

            @yes-master – I think a few words of advice are needed here. Firstly, it tends not to strengthen your argument by admitting you are “probably wrong”. That said, you are right there, you were, because the most dominant racing car imaginable would be little more than a sculpture without a driver able to extract performance from it. Being comfortable and knowing how to extract performance from your machinery is the entirety of a racing driver’s performance; the entirety of the car’s performance, no matter how fast it is capable of being.

            Secondly, history has no judgement. History is merely data to which we cast judgement in hindsight, and the fact that Senna won three titles, two fighting against the great Alain Prost, and had a career cut short is data that will stand forever, and hopefully ensure the validity of Ayrton’s case to legendary greatness for all of history. If we transfer the Senna vs Schumacher framework onto modern day, whilst Vettel’s raw statistics look better, marginally, the fact that Alonso had the opportunity to add a further three titles to his tally had the finales of 2007/10/12 gone in his favour will equally never be forgotten.

    • coefficient said on 6th May 2014, 9:52

      He won’t be happy until he gets his blown diffusor back. Fortunately for the rest of us that will never happen. I think he will be even more upset come weekend when Mercedes bring updates and remain out in front by a decent chunk.

      I would suggest his first order of business should be to concentrate on getting on terms with his teammate rather than waste time waiting for a rule change that will favour him to be introduced.

      • Dwight_js said on 6th May 2014, 21:14

        “I would suggest his first order of business should be to concentrate on getting on terms with his teammate rather than waste time waiting for a rule change that will favour him to be introduced.”

        When has he ever said that he is waiting for the rules to be changed?

    • Andrei (@crandreico) said on 6th May 2014, 12:22

      It was an interview and they asked him again his opinion about this new Formula and he answered them again with what he believes. It’s not like he calls the press and tells the editor to write that in their magazine over again and again. @cstonehouse

    • Velocityboy (@velocityboy) said on 6th May 2014, 12:57

      As others have pointed out he was asked his opinion and he gave it. The real test will be the comparison between the GP2 times and the F1 times this weekend in Spain. If the F1 cars are barely faster than GP2, then I think more people will align themselves with Vettel’s opinion that F1 risks losing it’s appeal.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 6th May 2014, 15:13

        That is a huge IF though @velocityboy, as even during testing the slowest times were better than current GP2 times already If I remember right (or was that by the time they came to Bahrain?).

        • Velocityboy (@velocityboy) said on 6th May 2014, 15:19

          it is a big IF, and I think it will be down to how much people this F1 cars should be faster than GP2 cars. Personally I think the gap should be several seconds, but if it’s not I’m not going to stop watching, but my belief that F1 is the pinnacle of motor sports may take a hit. It all depends on what each person expects from the sport and for some the sound is a part of it.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 6th May 2014, 15:09

      Until I see it confirmed that this was not based on an older interview I will restrain myself from making fun of Seb.

      But really this is not an opinion I value much nor put much weight in.

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 7th May 2014, 6:38

      Vettel needs to stop being such a cry baby. There is no way he would be making any of these statements if he was winning, or not getting his rear kicked by his teammate

  2. Cornflakes (@cornflakes) said on 6th May 2014, 0:10

    Hamilton seems a lot more rounded this year, not only in his driving but especially in the way he conducts himself. He really seems much more at ease, more down-to-earth and much more likeable this year. I really think and hope he’ll get the title.

  3. Stuart Brookes (@ztubert) said on 6th May 2014, 0:12

    Seb is a great driver, but he really needs to be careful what he says as he is just coming across as a bad loser now.

  4. Ed Marques (@edmarques) said on 6th May 2014, 0:12

    Just quit whining and shut up!

  5. PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend) said on 6th May 2014, 0:14

    Of course you don’t like the engines Seb. What a silly, hypocritical and hollow comment… Newsflash Seb, we can see what you are doing!
    I think he has been hanging around too long with Christian Horner…

    • Irejag (@irejag) said on 6th May 2014, 1:28

      I believe he is just saying what we are all thinking, and the media is trying to make us think what they want us to think.

      • Breno (@austus) said on 6th May 2014, 2:48

        what we are all thinking

        Citation needed.

        • bull mello (@bullmello) said on 6th May 2014, 3:05

          @austus – “Citation needed.”

          Bingo. The technology, power and efficiency is inspiring. It’s fascinating to watch the best of drivers struggle with such massive torque. And I don’t mind the sound at all.

        • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 6th May 2014, 8:36

          @austus @jcost Rather a clarification: The voice to all F1 fans who believe the noise to be a very important part of the F1 experience. Of which there are many

          No need to bash him just because it’s Vettel who says that

          • JCost (@jcost) said on 6th May 2014, 21:32

            @montreal95 Seb has his opinion and there’s no need to bash him. I admit to be a lover of the loud engines but new PU will never kill my vibe, there’s more in F1 for me.

        • uan (@uan) said on 6th May 2014, 16:51

          @austus

          well, Ferrari did do a survey of F1 fans a while back who weren’t very happy with the current formula.

          • DaveD (@daved) said on 7th May 2014, 1:33

            OK, please tell me you were being sarcastic? Seriously, a team who’s having a horrific season (by there standards), does a survey on their own website (where only their fans are likely to be) and allows them to self select who will take the survey and how many times….and you consider that a valid survey? LMAO!

            I just took a survey: The greatest team that ever played any sport, anywhere, anytime is the NFL’s Pittsburgh Steelers! Hey, it must be true because everyone I asked on the Steeler’s website said so! LOL

      • JCost (@jcost) said on 6th May 2014, 7:26

        @irejag as a tv viewer I don’t miss the sound at all, because I like the loud cars I expect to miss that roar next time a attend a GP but I’m not quitting GPs because cars are quieter. That’s not the essence of F1 for me.

      • DaveD (@daved) said on 7th May 2014, 1:23

        No, irejag, that is not what we’re all thinking. A small, but VERY loud minority made a huge amount of noise about it…but that does not mean we are “all thinking that”.

  6. aka_robyn said on 6th May 2014, 0:25

    Well, that choice of a lead story is sure to foster lots of “discussion” (to use the term generously).

    What so many people conveniently forget is that Vettel has been talking about the importance of engine noise for years now. It isn’t new. Not that reminding people of that makes any difference at all, of course.

    (By the way, @keithcollantine, the link above isn’t to the article; here’s the link: http://www.focus.de/sport/formel1/motorsport-vettel-erneuert-kritik-an-formel-1-technikrevolution_id_3817715.html)

  7. greg-c (@greg-c) said on 6th May 2014, 0:26

    I guess Taki’s now off the X-mas card list

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 6th May 2014, 7:30

      Hilarious!

      Actually I expect Honda to be alright. The formula should be mix their in-house expertise with best ideas from Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari’s PU.

    • anon said on 6th May 2014, 13:34

      To be fair to Taki, even if he has not made his point in the most eloquent way, it is true that Honda have kind of stuttered in their recent motorsport efforts.

      For a start, Honda have virtually vanished from Formula 3 – out of all eight of the active Formula 3 series there are only three teams using Mugen-Honda engines, with most series either using Mercedes, Volkswagen or Toyota engines.
      In the WTCC, they have been demolished by Citroen so far this season and only won the 2013 manufacturer trophy because Chevrolet did not have an official works team (otherwise Chevrolet would have thrashed them last year as well). Their GT efforts are OK at least, but not as competitive as they were a few years ago, and in the Super Formula (the renamed Formula Nippon series) the signs are that Toyota might have the upper hand over them in that series too.

      What might not bode well for McLaren is that Honda’s F1 engine program is rumoured to be a spin off from their Formula Nippon series engine, which is why they were already bench testing their engine in the middle of last year (Formula Nippon is using a 2.0 litre V6 engine for this season).
      However, that also means that the engine architecture was already relatively fixed before any details of the Mercedes engine might have been revealed, making it questionable how much they could gain from any information McLaren might glean from Mercedes (which, given Mercedes are taking great pains to avoid the transfer of information to Honda, won’t be easy).

  8. Michael C said on 6th May 2014, 0:29

    Shut up Seb – New Peter Griffin Quote

  9. petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 6th May 2014, 0:30

    Lol at Taki! :D

    Seb has a point but it’s been done now. If you listen back to races from last year, I really miss the sound. I actually think the longer it goes, the more people will miss it. Nothing we can do a bout it now though. It’s gone so time to move on.

    • matiascasali (@matiascasali) said on 6th May 2014, 0:54

      or the longer it goes, more people will get used to it, as with the platypuss noses en so on…

      • Cocaine-Mackeine said on 6th May 2014, 2:42

        Sorry but I won’t get used to te dicky noses…..

      • Kanil (@kanil) said on 6th May 2014, 3:43

        Yeah. I hated the 09 cars, I’m “used” to them now. I still dislike them, but it’s not something I notice.

        I’ll eventually get used to F1 cars flatulating around like IndyCars, rather than the exotic screaming one might expect from the pinnacle of motorsports.

  10. mantresx (@mantresx) said on 6th May 2014, 0:35

    So Mercedes is using a psychologist now eh? To be honest I don’t know why they invited him to the race, he should stay in Brackley pestering the aerodynamicists and wind tunnel engineers :p

  11. Jay Menon (@jaymenon10) said on 6th May 2014, 0:43

    Seb is turning into a bit of a whinny b$%ch.

    I for one think the technology in F1 today is brilliant. Whats the point in calling yourself a sport that at the pinnacle of autoracing when you’re running out dated technology? Would you rather have the 918 or a Murcielago?

    People, including Bernie and Seb, need to accept reality. It appears that they are trying pretty hard not to. F1’s current formula is the future. As I said before, every major car manufacturer will be investing in this type of technology now..which could only bode well for the sport.

  12. Scottie (@scottie) said on 6th May 2014, 0:43

    Autosport has an article with Derek Warwick saying F1 needs to be more spectacular…
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113790

    How much more spectacular can you make cars that are struggling to put so much power down?! *sigh*

    • ElBasque (@elbasque) said on 6th May 2014, 2:56

      LEDs everywhere.

      Flashing!

      Flashing LEDs everywhere. And lions.

    • wsrgo (@wsrgo) said on 6th May 2014, 3:24

      @scottie F1 fans are really becoming spoiled. It’s the only sport which changes rules almost every year according to what the fans may like, and of course, are unable to come to a right solution. Other sports don’t change their rules as much as F1 does, and it’s not that we have legions of fans clamouring for change there.

      • Rooney (@rojov123) said on 6th May 2014, 11:32

        +1 for COTD

      • Robbie (@robbie) said on 6th May 2014, 13:13

        @wrsgo I think the number of changes year to year has been a more recent phenomenon, and they certainly don’t act quickly based on what the fans want but on what they think the fans might want. Double points would already be a distant memory if that were the case.

        As to Warwick saying F1 needs to be spectacular…sure…hard to argue that, but I would substitute sparks flying and glowing brakes for the spectacular racing LH and NR gave us in Bahrain any day. I envision fans flocking to races not to be dazzled by shiny lures, but rather because they know there is going to be some spectacular wheel to wheel battles on the track.

        As soon as we have more battles like Bahrain, forgotten will be the quieter engines. Remove unspectacular DRS, reduce aero, and tighten up the field, and that will be spectacular enough for me.

  13. caci99 (@caci99) said on 6th May 2014, 0:44

    Come on Vettel, you are a lot younger than me, but making a lot more resistence to changes.

    • Bruce said on 6th May 2014, 3:01

      I’m probably younger than you too, but I am no fan of unnecessary change or change just for the sake of it either.

      • Optimaximal (@optimaximal) said on 6th May 2014, 8:54

        I think you’ll find the engine formula change was pretty ‘necessary’.

      • caci99 (@caci99) said on 6th May 2014, 8:57

        It is not just for the sake of changing, this is a complete new challenging formula. And Vettel with his attitude is not helping or being cooperative. What is happening in F1 right now, is quite exciting from the engineer point of view but drivers as well. We have cars with smaller engines and less fuel at disposal doing almost the same lap times as before, and much more torque at lower revs which is affecting drivers up and down the grid.

  14. JackySteeg (@jackysteeg) said on 6th May 2014, 1:55

    If anything is going to reduce the appeal of F1, it’s going to be its leading driver telling everybody that the sport is rubbish.

  15. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 6th May 2014, 2:32

    Vettel sounds so bad now!!! He needs to work silently so nobody can accuse him of trying to get taylormade rules . And I’m a Seb fan.
    On the other hand, to @cornflakes, when you say Ham is more thoughtful this year, he is as forgetful or saying the “extra-word” as always. The way he commented about Schum’s health, about “I learnt my skills from Senna (it sounded to me as “I’m as good as him”, maybe true, but you don’t say that on the 20th anniversary of Ayrton’s passing away) and forgeting all he said last year about “I don’t want to win in a dominant car” and now saying “I enjoy leading for a big advantage (Who doesn’t I know)… well, Seb and Lewis need to take “think before you speak 101″

    • matt90 (@matt90) said on 6th May 2014, 2:41

      (it sounded to me as “I’m as good as him”, maybe true, but you don’t say that on the 20th anniversary of Ayrton’s passing away)

      He said no such thing, implied no such thing, and intended no such thing. If you took that message then you didn’t read what he actually said properly.

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