Sergey Sirotkin, Sauber, Sochi, 2013

F1 urged to put Russian GP on hold after MH17 crash

F1 Fanatic Round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Sergey Sirotkin, Sauber, Sochi, 2013In the round-up: Formula One comes under political pressure to cancel the Russian Grand Prix.


Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Ecclestone urged to cancel the Russian Grand Prix (The Telegraph)

“Conservative MP David Davis, a former minister in the Foreign Office and shadow home secretary, said that the race on Oct 12 should be called off. ‘If Russia continues as they have been doing, then the grand prix is one of many things that they should be denied,’ he said. ‘The morally proper thing to do is put the race on hold.'”

Drivers warned after Raikkonen crash (Autosport)

FIA race director Charlie Whiting: “It was my view that Kimi did not rejoin very safely and should have taken more care.”

South Africa’s Kyalami F1 track to be sold (SBS)

“South Africa’s Kyalami racetrack, which hosted Formula One races for almost two decades, will be sold and could be lost to motorsport, auction organisers said on Wednesday.”

Lauda in retro: “Chiedo scusa a Ferrari, Montezemolo e italiani” (La Gazzetta dello Sport, Italian)

Niki Lauda apologises to “Ferrari, Luca di Montezemolo and Italians” after describing this year’s Ferrari as “shit”.

Mexico set to return to F1 calendar in 2015 (F1)

Tavo Hellmund: “Ever since Bernie and I began working on a race at Austin, it’s been a dream of mine to help Formula One return to Mexico.”

Warm liebt Deutschland die Formel 1 nicht mehr? Katerstimmung Liebt Deutschland die Formel 1 nicht mehr? (Sport Bild, German)

This article on why spectator figures at Hockenheimring were so low suggests it was due to a combination of high ticket prices, spectators being drawn to the nearby Austrian Grand Prix earlier in the year, loss of interest following the high of Germany’s World Cup victory, and the ‘polarising’ appeal of Sebastian Vettel compared to the adulation once bestowed on Michael Schumacher.

UK F1 TV ratings paint mixed picture at halfway stage (The F1 Broadcasting Blog)

“Logically, viewing figures should start to improve year-on-year if Hamilton remains in the title race. I think some of the figures already this year have been alarming, but we should see some improvements soon, especially when you consider that 2013 fell off a cliff in the latter stages.”

Going back to my Karting days (Lewis Hamilton via Youtube)

Lewis Hamilton is single-handedly keeping F1 interesting (GQ)

“Not only is Lewis keeping the F1 season interesting, he is also keeping British sports fans on the edge of their seats and doing his bit to make sure the year isn’t a complete blow-out.”

Hungarian Grand Prix Betting: A Happy Hunting Ground for Britain’s F1 Racers (Unibet)

My Hungarian Grand Prix preview for Unibet.


Comment of the day

@Matt90 marvels at the lack of thought which seems to go into F1 rule-making after Toto Wolff admitted a mistake had been made in approving double points:

If the grounds for complaint had simply been that super-bonus points were untraditional, then I could accept the teams being a bit confused and needing to say “we didn’t appreciate how firmly routed in tradition the fan base and by extension the sport itself is”.

But the grounds for complaint is how unsporting the concept is. So their response of essentially “we didn’t appreciate that the fan base supports or understands a thing called sporting integrity, nor that it should probably be a fundamental concept in all sports, even this one” still sounds backwards even if they’ve at least changed their tune.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Karan and Younger Hamii!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is via the contact form or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Happy birthday to Tiago Monteiro, Portugal’s only driver to stand on the podium of a world championship race (albeit in controversial circumstances), who is 38 today.

Image © Sauber

109 comments on “F1 urged to put Russian GP on hold after MH17 crash”

  1. So not doing a race in Russia because of politics, but in Bahrain it’s fine?

    1. Although stopping races because of politics is a slippery slope, a country being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of international citizens who were on a well-known flight path is a bit different to anything that happened in Bahrain.

      1. It was Russia’s military, not the Russian people that fired the missile, so why should all of Russia and other fans from around the world be punished by not having a race? I am sick and tired of foreign entities getting involved in the politics of other countries. I feel that what happens in one country should not effect the lives of people in other countries because politicians stick their noses in.
        If Ukraine and Russian want to fight it out, let them, it is none of our business. If the middle east want to fight, let them, it is none of our business. I am a fan F1 and I want to see a race, I don’t care about the political implications of it.
        “The show must go on.”
        The Russian people deserve to have a momentary distraction from all the crap around them, and so do we. To cancel the race would be a big mistake.

        1. Since you have proof that the Russians shot down MH 17 you should probably let the worlds media know so they can report it to everyone and stop investigating

        2. North Korea, the people there really deserve a distraction from their joyless undernourished existence. The show can go on but maybe it shouldn’t be in Russia.

          1. Dennis Rodman would applaud you, @hohum

        3. I don’t even know where to begin with this statement. Sigh.

        4. Adrian Taylor
          24th July 2014, 0:56

          If Ukraine and Russia want to fight it out its none of our business…….
          Until 300 innocent people lose their lives as a direct result of that conflict

          If the middle east want to fight it out its none of out business……..
          Until they start committing war crimes (alleged)

          In an ideal world, millions of motor sports fans might band together and let their voice be heard against what most people would describe as atrocities, i.e. by boycotting an F1 race in Russia this year.

          However, if the F1 race does go ahead in Russia, it probably won’t be because F1 want to take a neutral political stance or ‘keep their noses out of it’. It will be because they stand to make a lot of money out of it!

        5. I am sick and tired of foreign entities getting involved in the politics of other countries

          The politics of the particular country in question currently involves the invasion/annexation of another country and accidentally killing international citizens. Those politics are very much other people’s business…

          1. Agreed.

          2. We’ll be sure to remind you of that when it is your countrymen murdered.

          3. I think banning the Russia GP would be a slippery slope.

            Most western nations were involved in the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

            The US aid and supply weapons to Israel who have a military invasion/annexation of the West Bank and Gaza.

            In all of the above scores of innocent people were killed.

            Its not F1s job to protest the politics of a nation by withdrawing the GP. With that said I will be a hypocrite and say I really think that F1 should only go to stable nations that are safe for fans to travel to, not the current method of whichever country pays Bernie more.

      2. Hitler once gassed a load of Jews. Let’s never go to Germany again!

    2. Well the Bahrainis are not directly or indirectly trying to annex part of a neighbouring country nor did they shoot down directly or indirectly an airliner on an international route with 298 people on board. Vlad Putin is the 21st centuries Napoleon and should not be appeased.

      1. The let the Russian people deal with it. They revolted once before, they can do it again.

        1. A majority of Russian people like what Putin is doing, he gets the credit for the high energy prices that have vastly improved the standard of living in Russia, now he wants to restore Russias empire and in any country there are a lot of jingoistic people happy to feel superior to their neighbours. As long as the Russian people see Putin as improving things for them they will back him no matter what others suffer as a result.

          1. @hohum

            he gets the credit for the high energy prices that have vastly improved the standard of living in Russia

            Sorry, but you do not understand what you are talking about. That is totally not correct.

    3. I’m pretty sure they release a similar sort of statement in the buildup to Bahrain. It just seems like an empty token gesture so they can’t be accused of supporting the event. I don’t think they seriously expect Bernie to turn around and say “good point, I’d better cancel it then.”

    4. I for one would support not racing in Russia (yes they should have skipped Bahrain too).

    5. Greed is BAD. All the F1 Teams have to protect their brands and their sponsor brands from backlash. There are plenty of countries willing to and interested in hosting F1 races. Why should we take the circus to countries known for their endemic corruption and/or blatant violation of human rights? Social Responsibility should also be embraced by all F1 stakeholders.

      So, as we heard, BE is hard balling Monza to extract more millions of Euros from the Italians. And in the meantime, people see no problem to race in Russia and Bahrain because BE gets his millions of blood tainted money?

      It is time for the brands to wake up and realize whom they are associating with.

      1. Perhaps you missed the destruction of Syria, Iraq, Libya, and Sudan? I think there are a lot of people who love to point their finger at who the television tells them too. Point blank, if your going to pull a race from Russia, you would be a hypocrite to want the race in the US to remain, Russia isn’t the one with hundreds of bases across the globe knocking down countries, the murder of hundreds of thousands of people and general suffering, currently.

        Hypocrisy Rules!

        1. Syria and Libya hasve nothing to do with US. Iraq does. Making war/invading a country per se, is not crime. In my book.

    6. My opinion is that there are 5 races this year which should not feature on the calendar. Not difficult to find which ones.

    7. Surely sanctions could have a bigger impact? You don’t ban the race you ban the money and the race follows. Sauber and Toro Rosso are tied up in Russian money at the moment. They should be making contingency plans in my opinion.

    8. Every bit of evidence that Russia shot the plane down has been debunked. There is overwhelming evidence that the plane was shot down by Ukraine.

      #1 Ukraine post a picture of what they claim is a Russian anti-aircraft missile system in Ukraine. Bloggers then show how that AM system is in fact Ukraine’s own system and not Russias. (Kiev caught lying).
      #2 Russia provides evidence that the Ukraine anti-air missile system is online and in the area of the plane at the time the plane was shot down. No one disputes this.
      #3 Ukraine SU-27 jet flies to within 3km of the plane at the time it is shot down. Radar images prove this.
      #4 Russia shows that the plane is out of range of their their own anti-air system when it is shot down. Impossible for Russia to have shot it down.
      #5 Ukraine accuses Russia of shooting down two of its SU-27 jets. Ukraine/kiev says it could not have been the Rebels because Ukraine admit the rebels do not have the anti-air missile system (a networked 4 tanked-radar system) needed to shoot down a jet flying at 5,700km altitude.
      #6 The civilian plane was flying at over 10,000km altitude. We know from #5 that the rebels do not have the equipment needed to shoot down a plane at that altitude.

      After all this, it makes me sick that everyone instantly blames Russia. It sends a scary message, which says to the gangsters running Ukraine that they can do what ever they like because Russia will always take the blame.

      1. Oh please, what is the most likely story? That this is a massive conspiracy perpetrated by Ukraine and the west for no reason whatsoever, or that people who had already shot down several aircraft previously mistook the identity of a plane passing over? There is no doubt at all about who is responsible.

        1. Why for no reason? The reason is obvious. Villify Russia, claim all the resistance are terrorists, throw Europe into Amrican arms, get NATO to help Ukrainian army to “squash the terrorists”… the list can go on and on.

          On the other hand, besides not having the means, this is most definitely not in the interest of the resistance, nor Russia, for obvious reasons.

      2. @joshua-mesh
        #1 evidences like vague satellite pictures remembers me the mass destruction weapons from Saddam Hussain, can’t be fact
        #2 I wonder how this can constitute ‘evidence’, it’s a claim as no missile has been tracked by anyone
        #3 everyone has admitted that the plane was shot down by land to air missile, the presence of ukrainian jets is aknowledged in the zone and irrelevant
        #4 out of range of the Russians, but in the perfect window of the separatists
        #5 Ukraine has indeed accused the russians for their jets lost because it’s been done within 10 kilometers of the Russian border but the BUK system is owned and operated by the rebels, as it is admitted by all parties, verify your sources.
        #6 They do have the needed equipment to shot down a plane up to 45km range

        You forgot to mention that:
        #7 rebels have declared they had shot down a plane minutes after the tragedy, by internet and communications.
        #8 Why the h*ck would Ukraine even shoot a land-to-air missile, in their airspace, and against what treat?
        #9 After the two jets were shot down, rebels claimed to have done it, and with BUK systems.
        Seriously …

        1. 8. Exactly.

      3. Somebody’s been reading Putin’s propaganda.

  2. Cheers for the birthday shoutout Keith, I shall try and come on here more often again – both as a fanatic and writer maybe ;-)

    1. Happy Birthday!! …COTD please.

  3. Should Russia be denied the F1 in Sochi? I wasn’t sure they should have the Sochi Olympics given their stand on gay rights. But I watched the Olympics, because I am Canadian and winter sports are important to us.

    If you add the recent Ukrainian land-grabs and murder (intentional or not, or at the very least conspiracy to commit murder) of innocent, completely unrelated to the issue civilians, how can the Russian GP go ahead?

    Of course, I know it will, because the money is there and paid and that is the driver. And worst – like John Oliver’s views on FIFA ( – I’ll still end up watching it. Why? Because F1 is my religion.

    1. If F1 acts now it can organise an alternative race for the date reserved for Sochi, perhaps Bernie will offer his Pernod circuit in France or maybe there is an opportunity in the USA.

      1. How about 2 races in Abu Dabai? That will justify double points.

        1. Vettel could win a 5th!

        2. Double Abu double? Where will it end? :).

      2. @hohum, there might be opportunity in the USA, but you’d have to forgive them their war crimes as well (a very long list). so we might as well race in Russia.

        1. If we go on with this attitude in mind, we should probably cancel most races for historical reasons (Germany, anyone?). But we’re talking here and now. If nobody reacts, there will be a silent agreement for another very dangerous totalitarian regime growing up in front of our eyes.

          I’m not going to watch the Russian GP.

    2. Exactly, it seems a bit hasty to cancel the GP. Of course it’s an absolute tragedy and whoever is found culpable should be punished, but what would then happen to all the tickets sold, and the companies who paid millions for advertising. The only way I can see it going on is if the Russian government is cleared of any involvement with the race. Does anyone know if the race is private or funded by the Russian government?

      1. The expense will be public, the revenue will be private.

        1. @hohum Hahaha, when people look back on this period of history, that will be its definition.

  4. On a different topic, I know that Marussia is bottom on the tables on most any measure, but seriously – are they making the drivers fly easyJet? I guess it could be worst. They could make them fly RyanAir.

    1. stefano bondani
      24th July 2014, 0:30

      marussia is spending their few money wisely where they should be spent, and not on expensive flights that won’t make their cars or drivers any faster

      1. Daniel (@collettdumbletonhall)
        24th July 2014, 0:47

        Makes sense. It’d be a good way for the big teams to cut costs.

    2. I never understood it, what’s so bad about Ryanair? It gets you from A to B freaking cheap, and they even let you breath. Which is weird, because I always hear critics about it which would suggest the opposite. But I flied with them and am still alive.

      1. This. I fly with low cost companies constantly, the only thing i miss from other companies is the free beer, but then again what I save allows me to buy a lot of it.

      2. I always had the same opinion until the time they cancelled a flight – supposedly because of strike action in France but I was sitting at the front of the plane and saw them having to change a window, thus meaning they missed their slot and the airport in France closed for the next three days. Because it wasn’t “their fault”, all that was refunded was the original cost of the ticket, when is actually had to rebook (far more expensive) with another airline to fly to a different city and then catch a train to where I had to go. I know it was a confluence of circumstances both within and outside their control, but they were so unhelpful (the staff on the ground just repeated that they didn’t work for RyanAir so couldn’t help with any advice or practical assistance) and I ended up a couple of hundred euros out of pocket. So yeah, fine until it’s not really!

    3. If anything as he is effectively paying the team for his drive I would have thought he is kind of paying for the flight too ha!

    4. Drivers on EasyJet isn’t a new thing. I went to Hungary in 2011, and we had Daniel Riccardio on the same EasyJet flight as us, as well as a member of Red Bull management… And if I remember correctly, there was definitely someone who sounded an awful lot like David Croft! So not just teams who wanted the cheaper option.

    5. Also, of course, airport choice & timetables often make it far more convenient to take a low-cost carrier, particularly when hopping around Europe!

  5. Impromptu Caption Competition
    Image: Toto Wolf shows his injuries

    Luckily for Toto, the accident didn’t take place in Abu Dhabi, otherwise it would have almost certainly resulted in a double fracture.

    1. One of the greatest comments ever.

    2. +1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

    3. Hahaha best comment here!

    4. Comment of the Century!

    5. And for their next trick Toto and Paddy will take over for Nico and Lewis for a race.

  6. Absolutely delighted about the Mexican GP returning. The calender needs more classics like this track and hopefully that means we can get rid of a rubbish track like abu dhabi.

    1. As long as Abu Dhabi keeps paying what there paying to host the Gp then it can’t see it going anywhere.

      I’d also point out that Abu-Dhabi is actually fairly well attended as far as there spectator capacity goes & that led to them increasing spectator capacity by 10% for last years race-

  7. So is it confirmed that the Mexican Grand Prix is actually returning? i keep seeing this news everywhere and i’m really really excited!.

    1. Yes, they had a press conference yesterday about it. Only worry: Tilke is redesigning the circuit, hope he/his firm doesn’t cock it up.

      1. Oh thats great!! yeah Tiilke is a worry but hey! Mexico will get a GP!!!

      2. @ausuma @hunocsi For you and everyone else who hasn’t seen this yet, there’s a nice render on the planned updates including track layout and what they’re going to do with Peraltada:

        So what do you guys think? I thought it was going to be worse to be honest.

  8. It’s all well and good for a British MP to say that the Russian GP should be cancelled (a sentiment I agree with) but it really doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. Backbenchers say things all the time, but that shouldn’t be confused with the government’s official position.

    Although the contract for the Russian GP is not in the public domain, I’d be amazed if FOM could cancel the race without being in breach, and liable for substantial damages. Same situation with the teams – they are contractually obliged to participate in all races.

    And that of course ignores the reality that Bernie and CCV will take money over morals every day.

    The only way that I can see the race not proceeding is if the UK parliament bans, by legislative force, any team based in that country (which is most of them) from participating in the Russian GP. And while I’d like to see that happen, I’m very sceptical that it will.

    1. The only way the race will ever get postponed is if the teams insurers refuse to cover them running the cars in Russia – then they’ll have no choice but to refuse to go and Bernie can’t do anything about it, because it wasn’t the teams decision.

      I believe that is what was likely to happen with Bahrain 2011, so Bernie & the organisers cancelled it to save face.

  9. Niki Lauda apologises to “Ferrari, Luca di Montezemolo and Italians” after describing this year’s Ferrari as “that”.

    FERRARI and MONTEZEOMOLO themselves should apologise, not Lauda for stating the obvious…

    1. if ferrari were to apologise for every race car they built which wasnt up to scratch, i doubt that luca would still be around, it is all the blame shifting that keeps him where is

  10. Malaysian National Oil Company, Petronas.

    As in Mercedes AMG Petronas team.

    Couldn’t blame them for boycotting Sochi, maybe pull all the power units.

  11. But Russia trying to take former land back was ok?

  12. Since day one in the sport, Lewis has been the straw that stirs the F1 drink. His personality should be celebrated, not criticized. Quite honestly, I wish he would come to the states and race IndyCar. His personality is too fun for F1.

    1. whatever you say.

    2. Sarcasm at its finest

  13. Struggling to decide who’s worst: The incompetent idiots with dangerous weapons or the low life politicians trying to score cheap political points out of a tragedy.

  14. How exactly does Toto stay so dead sexy? After an accident like that I would be in some lonely dark room sucking on a pain drip fantasizing about my mother telling me I’ll be just fine

    1. I think its the power and money that does it.

  15. I think sport events should never be called off on political grounds, but the discussion about it should be held. This ensures that the controversies like in Bahrain, Russia or other places stay in the news and also reach people who aren’t that interested in foreign affairs. Fans have to deal with it once it concerns their favourite sport or team. And boycotts only work if they are partial – if it’s the whole event that’s called off then there are fewer headlines and the issues disappear from the news. Like the last time F1 decided not to go to Bahrain.

    1. Also on another note – F1 is the least of their worries. If they really wanna get to Russia then maybe the UK should stop delivering weapons to them before talking about empty gestures like calling off a sporting event.

  16. Who does moderating on this site?

    Why was my comment deleted at the beginning of the season, where I said something like, I wonder if the Russian GP will be cancelled given the aggressive actions of the said country?

  17. If every GP was cancelled because of something morally wrong with the country, we wouldn’t have any.

    As for Mexico, good news it is retuning, but why on earth is it being ruined. All the modifications are is making every corner a slow hairpin. Seriously.

    As for Kyalami, it would be a shame. I like that track and I have always had some hope that it could return.

  18. For once I actually agree with Bernie Ecclestone. Yes, what happened in Ukraine was terrible, and yes things need to be done about the security of the region, but Formula 1 has nothing to do with that. Formula 1 is a sport, bringing people together to enjoy watching other people driving in a circle. Formula 1 is also a business, and the contract that Ecclestone has with the Russians should be honoured. What Formula 1 is not, is a political tool to be used by the liars in Parliament. As I understand it, the UK is still supplying weapons to Russia. I think that is far more morally improper than holding a race there for everyone’s enjoyment.

    1. What if there had been Formula one drivers on that plane? Would that change things? It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that it could have been F1 team travelling to Malaysia rather than a some HIV researchers…

      1. In what way would that change things, pray tell? Are the lives of HIV researchers in your opinion somehow less valuable than those of F1 team staff? Or perhaps you believe that other HIV researchers would never ever go to Malaysia from now on, as you obviously think that is how F1 team staff would respond?

        I urge people here to stop this pointless discussion, which has been popping up multiple times before regarding many political crises. As has been repeatedly stated, if GPs were only held in morally blameless countries, there would not be either US or British GP, and most of the races would be held in like Switzerland or Scandinavia.

        1. I personally don’t think it would be any different – sorry if I gave that impression. What I meant is, in the eyes of the those who don’t think politics affects F1, it would make a huge difference.

        2. Or perhaps you believe that other HIV researchers would never ever go to Malaysia from now on

          I agree that ‘ifs’ are pretty pointless, but going to Malaysia isn’t the issue here.

    2. But F1 is a political tool, beloved by the kind of leaders who promote a macho image by doing things like hunting bears in the wilderness whilst riding shirtless past a photographer.

      Timeing is everything, there is no point protesting countries that we are friends with for long past misdeeds, but we should bring pressure to bear when they are on the path to commiting misdeeds lest they think there will be no consequences and hopefully to moderate their actions.

  19. Me being Russian, you may just discard my opinion and continue to be fed by our beloved MSM, but please just pay a little attention.

    What happened to MH17 is an awful terrible tragedy. It is a horrible thing that happened to nearly 300 innocent lives. However, nobody seems to give a flying fff… about hundreds of civilians dying in Ukraine in result of the strikes by Ukrainian army. What kind of hypocricy is that? Are those on the plane somehow more desrving of mourning than those dying everyday in Ukraine? Ask yourself.

    Now, regarding the actual plane. Please put emotions aside and look at facts. So far the only party that has released real facts was Russia. The satellite imagery of Ukrainian BUKs in the area, plus the means of objective control – the radar data from the Rostov aviation centre.

    On the other hand, from the very first day we heard from the US government that they have satellite data of rocket launch. Yet 5 days since, no data is released. All they base their claims on is some social media info. Is it a joke? Yesterday they said they authenticate the tape of the conversation between the rebels about the downed plane. The tape which was proven by multiple sources to be a badly made fake. Hold on a minute, but where is that satellite data they boasted of?

    From day one the blame was put on Russia without ANY facts or investigation. HOW COME? So far the Ukrainian side does their utmost best to hinder that investigation, yet no word of condemnation for them…

    The poor sods from Donetsk steppe spent 4 days collecting the bodies from the horrific scene, at the crash site of 15 miles across, in 30 degree heat. Can you IMAGINE yourself doing that? They were even praised by the Dutch investigators for what they did. Yet, what do we hear from the world media? Nothing but abuse.

    My dear friends, I’m begging you to use your heads and be critical of the information you receive. It’s very far from being that simple. We should NEVER jump to conclusions BEFORE examining available facts.

    And let’s keep F1 away from politics. I beg you.

    1. I’m sorry the information you have access to had led you to this opinion.

      1. do you have anything of real substance to add?

      2. FWIW, I have access to a LOT more information than you, being able to scan Russian and Ukrainian sources along with those in English

      3. @danbrown180
        Do not pay attention to such claims and comments at all. You will not prove anything to Russian people. They simply do not seem to understand.

        1. Malaysian minister must be Russia too???

          US, UK ‘hypocrites’ over Russia verbal attacks
          Malaysian goverment minister says US also guilty for supplying war weapons to those killing innocent Palestinians in Gaza.

          A top minister in the Malaysian government has accused the United States of hypocrisy in its criticism of Russia for supplying arms to separatist groups, stating that the U.S. is just as guilty in that is supplying war weapons to those killing innocent Palestinians in Gaza.

          “A lot of people are making very hypocritical statements, especially in the last week where Western leaders were saying it is obvious the weapons were supplied by the Russians to the rebels in order to shoot down the plane,” Mukhriz Mahathir, the chief minister of the northern state of Kedah told the Anadolu Agency on Wednesday.

          “This begs the question, who then supplied weapons that Israel is using against Palestinians? They need to be careful with statements like that.”

          1. Accusing a country of hypocrisy isn’t at all the same as agreeing with Russia.

        2. Blame the Russians, ignore the facts. Good tactic mate.

          1. I’m not sure being Russian gives one exclusive rights to the truth, and I think that none of us really know the truth. To me the fact is that Putin’s hostile actions, conveniently waiting until the Olympics were over, is what has escalated tensions for months now, and what led to an airliner being downed. He has an agenda and it has led to this.

          2. @robbie

            did I say anywhere that being Russian gives an exclusive right to the truth? Slava, on the other hand, implicated quite the otherwise.

            And if you look at my original post, all I am asking for is to wait for FACTS before jumping to conclusions.

            And regarding hostile actions and stufff.. hows that investigation into Maidan snipers going? Or Odessa massacre? What were Nuland and McCain doing there calling for the overthrow of a democratically elected president? Would you tolerate such behaviour in your country?

          3. @njoydesign Fair comment but you did seem to imply that your expanded access than most to Russian, Ukranian, and English media means you know more ‘facts’ and I just question what are the ‘facts’. You are right to ask us to wait for the facts, and I’m quite sure you don’t know all of them, which is why I made a general comment that without Putin’s actions, tensions would not be escalated in the region and an airliner would likely not have been downed.

          4. @robbie
            You see, that secondary comment was aimed at Dan, who obviously implied (judging by his previous comments on the matter) that I am led to my opinion by the mythical “Putin propaganda”. So I had to retaliate.

            Obviously, we don’t know all the facts. But as of now, the only side that has provided any facts is, in fact, the Russian side.

            And again, you say “Putin actions”… It is so much more complicated than that. Before all the armed uprising happened, do you remember what those people were asking for? All they were asking was a referendum for federalisation. That is a very democratic wish in my view. The whole secession movement started after Odessa, where people were burned alive, just for that democratic wish.

            I have been following all these events closely, and believe me, my heart is bleeding. But none of that would be happening if the new “government” tried to listen to the people of its country.

          5. @njoydesign,” the 1st. casualty of war is truth” (Churchill ?), the KGB had an excellent mis-information campaign going after KAL 7 was shot down in 1983, I don’t think a name change has made them lose those skills, the 1 real fact we have is that MH 17 was crossing Ukraine from West to East on a busy international flight-path and was only minutes away from leaving Ukraine altogether so it is impossible to come up with a plausible theory as to why anyone in the Ukraine defence forces would perceive it to be a threat let alone shoot it down. Bc @danbrown180,@robbie,

          6. @hohum
            oh come on, Soviet Union has always been pretty bad with the media…

            My parents’ coursemate was part of KAL7 recovery team. They never found any bodies… Just saying…

            Regarding Ukraine… They had no reason to shoot the Russian Tu154 in 2001 either. Yet they did it.

            Why can’t the US share their satellite data with us? What’s there to hide? Russia has provided the radar data and satellite data, why can’t the US do the same? They did help in 2001, why not now?

  20. Many good people saw their best sentiments hijacked for someone’s political ends. I would be all for cancelling GP of Russia (a country supplying weapons to morons who shot down a civilian aircraft) if the people suggesting it also proposed cancelling the US GP for that country supplying help to a certain country that just now indiscriminately bombards civilians, with death toll already surpassing that of the MH17 flight. But I do no see any such suggestions in the media, which shows that these suggestions are not based on moral indignation, but are just an attempt to use our best feelings to support certain people’s international games of power. I do not like being taken for a fool. The situation is very much reminiscent of the outcry over the Russian anti-gay-propaganda law during the Olympics, when many of the statesmen/woman who were very local had no problem getting at the same time friendly with countries whose laws are distinctly more anti-gay. Now the Russians are no morons, they can see how the wind blows, can one really blame them for suspecting western countries? When coupled with some moronic remarks of last year about Ukraine joining NATO by some high-ranking European officials (talk about a “kid with matches” behaviour), a change in Russian policy towards the West was to be expected and duly came. This does not make Putin into a good guy, but his actions were logical and at its core not much different from the usual modus operandi of the western powers, the only difference being that Russians (and communists) have always seem to be very clumsy about PR. I am pretty sure that experienced western spin doctors would manage to make Putin’s actions smell much sweeter. After all, in 88′ the US Navy actually shot down an Iranian airliner on a regular flight with death toll remarkably similar to that of MH17 and rode it down quite well.

    1. sorry, very local -> very vocal

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