Felipe Massa, Williams, Red Bull Ring, 2014

Rosberg should have had penalty – Massa

F1 Fanatic Round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Felipe Massa, Williams, Red Bull Ring, 2014In the round-up: Felipe Massa believes Nico Rosberg should have been penalised for hitting Lewis Hamilton during the Belgian Grand Prix.


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Massa: FIA should have penalised Rosberg (Crash)

“He needs to brake, but he didn’t brake so they just touched wheels and Nico was behind so Nico destroyed Lewis’ race. So I don’t understand why the FIA didn’t give a penalty to him.”

Rosberg benefited from ‘lenient’ rules (Autosport)

Jenson Button: “If it had happened four races ago, I’m sure Nico would have got penalised because that sort of incident always got penalised.”

Emotion integral to Mercedes (F1)

“Q: Aside from the missed win, wasn’t that encounter the best thing that could have happened to Mercedes? It got you more media attention than three one-two victories in a row…
[Toto Wolff]: No, no, we would have preferred the win. But that is also what Bernie (Ecclestone) told me – that it was the best for Formula One and for us.”

Mercedes may consider line-up change (BBC)

Wolff: “If we are not able to manage the two of them following the Mercedes-Benz spirit then we need to admit that.”

Todt’s concerns over Russian GP (The Telegraph)

Ari Vatanen: “It would send a message of acceptance if we went to Russia. It would say we condone, effectively, maybe not explicitly, but by our actions we condone what is going on because it is used in propaganda.”

Kobayashi back for Monza but future uncertain (Reuters)

“It’s not an easy situation. I am here for the sport of racing, but looking at the last couple of weeks I think it’s more political stuff happening than sport.”

Marco Mattiacci, Luca di Montezemolo, Ferrari, Circuit de Catalunya, 2014Erdbeben bei Ferrari: Montezemolo raus, Brawn rein? (Motorsport Total, German)

This report claims Luca di Montezemolo will step down as president of Ferrari this weekend to be replaced by current Fiat Group CEO Sergio Marchionne, while Ross Brawn will take the place of Marco Mattiacci.

Vettel coy on McLaren rumours (ESPN)

“It’s not my first time I have been approached in the last few years, which obviously is nice, but it’s not my style to share. I’m sorry!”

Perez close to 2015 deal (Sky)

“All I can say is that for me we are still discussing on a deal for next year – Juncadella I really don’t know anything, that is for the team or Daniel himself.”

Daniel Ricciardo was always going to be an F1 star, according to Toro Rosso designer Luca Furbatto (News.com.au)

“It was incredible how he recalled the behaviour of the machine even hours later.”

Alguersuari: “Lo que pasa en la F1 es ridículo y decepcionante” (Diario Sport, Spanish)

Jaime Alguersuari says he does not consider F1 a sport because vested interests have blocked agreements over spending limits, car performance has decreased and drivers can make little difference to their team’s overall competitiveness.



Comment of the day

WilliamB is pleased to see Roberto Merhi getting a run in practice:

He’s had an excellent return to single-seater racing after being well of the pace in DTM and worryingly so in pre-season testing for Zeta Corse earlier this year. However Merhi has comprehensively put that behind him and has been arguably the fastest man in the FR3.5 field in the past two rounds to give him a remote shot at shaking the one hand Carlos Sainz Jnr already has one the 2014 FR3.5 title from the Spaniard’s grip.

That said, if Merhi does manage to grapple a race seat for 2015 I won’t begrudge myself a melancholy nod the the DTM-imprisoned Robert Wickens.
WilliamB (@William-Brierty)

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Maciek, Us_Peter, Dominikwilde and Dominikwilde!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is via the contact form or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Juan Manuel Fangio won the Italian Grand Prix 60 years ago today after Mercedes team mate Stirling Moss retired from the lead.

Here’s footage from the race:

Images © Williams/LAT, Ferrari/Ercole Colombo

81 comments on “Rosberg should have had penalty – Massa”

  1. Brundle with the snap, sweet. :)

    1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
      5th September 2014, 10:52

      Yes, great joke :-)

      …but what about the hint that there’s more trouble in store? Sounds like he thinks Nico is pretty unhappy.

  2. I can’t help but just ignore everything Massa say’s lately. He complains so much, admitting so little, and talks so little sense. To me he seems like one of the least intelligent drivers on the grid. Possibly it’s just the language barrier, but still .. not very inspiring

    1. What was the last time Massa didnt ask someone to get a penalty?

    2. Well if Massa’s opinions are “uninspiring” then yours are downright useless. Don’t talk down a person in a much higher position than you.

      1. By saying that, does that justify someone in a ‘higher position’ talking down to some ‘lower’?

        Naturally, he’s probably more informed, but this doesn’t give him the right to overrule. It often seems perspectives outside of F1 are much less corrupted and clear

      2. Don’t talk down a person in a much higher position than you.


      3. I think it’s reasonable to point out that the words of a person who refuses to see when he is in the wrong don’t mean much. He has had a lot of collisions where he has steadfastly refused to take the blame.

        1. @matt90
          List all of these “lot of collisions” that he refused to take the “blame”, and please do not mention Canada because the issue is over and was cleared by the FIA.

          1. so was SPA…

          2. Alonso in 2007, particularly India in 2011, although he played the victim in every incident with Hamilton even if they 50/50, Germany 2014. They all spring to mind immediately. And I will also mention Canada as I believe that was 50/50 too (one driver aims straight in relation to where they are already heading, which moves them left relative to the edge of the track, and one driver tries to pass but doesn’t anticipate that so turns in on the other driver’s path).

          3. @dr-jekyll: Canada’s incident was cleared TWO TIMES even after Force India themselves opened the case again. If Mercedes opened the Spa case again then it might have other consequences.

            @matt90: so these “LOT of COLLISIONS” you mentioned are only “FEW” including controversial incidents. This is weird… Next time define please “LOT” when you use it.

          4. Are you expecting me to provide you with a detailed list including time codes of all the relevant comments he made? I provided the few that immediately sprang to mind. I have a feeling there are others, although without researching I can’t guarantee it. But anyway, yes, I call 3+ collisions where a driver refuses to accept blame where it is due to be quite a lot. Lot: a great deal, as with most non-specific amounts it is often used comparatively, in this case in relation to other drivers.

            What’s with the capitals?

      4. Don’t talk down a person in a much higher position than you.

        He wasn’t.

      5. Don’t talk down a person in a much higher position than you.

        Is that from the North Korea Journalism Guidelines? Of course he can criticize Massa. It’ll be the arguments themselves that decide whether or not we ought to take the criticism serious or not.

        But in any case, Massa has a bigger problem than either being criticise or feeling the need to blame others for his woes. That problem being, of course, Valtteri Bottas.

    3. Dead-set. Then contrast to another Brazillian driver appearing in the round up – Senna. How good is that press conference clip. Drivers are not politicians, I don’t know why they always talk like them. The Thursday press conferences are as dull as dishwater.

    4. Nop believe me I’ve listened to him in portuguese, makes no difference apart from better grammar skills.

    5. @me4me, I agree.
      If Massa would put his ‘moaning energy’ into driving the car he might help Williams to 3rd or even 2nd in the WCC.

        1. @coldfly Alonso just said that it probably wasn’t a deliberate attempt to take Nico out of the race. And you know what? He’s probably right, but that says nothing about whether or not he deserves a penalty.

          1. @maroonjack, actually Alonso said as well “It was a racing incident”, which means as much as no penalty!

        2. @coldfly Do you have the original source for any of those quotes? I wouldn’t take an un-bylined translation at face value.

          1. @keithcollantine – fair point; I was just a bit lazy in linking.
            Below the original sources:
            Alonso: http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/9452908/sky-sports-exclusive-fernando-alonso-insists-he-will-stay-at-ferrari-for-2015
            Hulkenberg & Vettel: (in german) http://sportbild.bild.de/formel-1/2014/formel-1/vettel-verteidigt-rosberg-37516364.sport.html

            PS – in the same Bild article they also quote Haug saying he saw it as “an oversight”!

          2. @coldfly Thanks, just wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed anything.

      1. @coldfly – Maybe that’s what they need. Moaning to Kinetic energy conversion. Massa would dominate motorsport for years to come!

        1. @petebaldwinm – yeah, MGU-M(oan)!
          He does need to be careful though not to overcharge the battery!

          1. Oooh it would be another interesting Hamilton-Massa title scrap that’s for sure!

    6. @me4me Jenson Button basically said the same thing. The fact Massa has been wrong here and there doesn’t imply he will always be wrong.

  3. Holy Ferrari! If true, this may be just what the doctor ordered. With Brawn in charge Ferrari could be a force again. Might be one good reason Alonso would favor staying on board.

    Mattiacci does seem like a company man placeholder waiting for a real team principal. So many corporate rumblings concerning LdM these days. This could definitely be true and would be good for F1.

    1. While it may be wild speculation, if you consider all the bits and pieces that have been coming out in the news lately, the article could potentially make some sense.

      As we know, Luca has been touted as the next President of Alitalia, Ross Brawn has been spotted “visiting friends” at Maranello and now, Fernando wants to commit beyond 2016.

      Put these together and it does make sense. Perhaps Ferrari is taking the Mclaren approach? Racing Director and CEO/COO approach? With Ross having total control of the team while Marco deals with the day to day politics?

      If Ross is trully returning, personally, I hope that Marco doesnt get removed. The current setup should not be disrupted so quickly, Ross should perhaps be placed above Mattiaci to oversee/consult the entire operation.

      1. @jaymenon10 – That would make a lot of sense really. Mattiacci seems like a good company guy and is likely a good executive.

        The rumblings from the Fiat side of things would also lend credence to LdM having served his purpose and headed out. Just read another article to that effect a day or two ago.

        Having Brawn back would make F1 just that much more interesting.

      2. I agree with you. While it’s hard to judge his performance considering he’s only been in the position a few months, I like what I see from Mattiacci. He appears like a calm, considered man (with a huge passion for the team) and someone who can act like a strong leader. F1 has become so complex these days I wouldn’t be surprised to see a power-sharing approach to the role of team principle as you’ve suggested. It seems to be the way forward for all the big teams. And if the mighty Ross Brawn is back at Ferrari then even better!

        1. I agree about division of the team principal role, but the thing is, Ferrari already has that. They have Luca, who really is one of the most influential people in F1, and is perfect for the politics side of the things. Ferrari really is second to none when it comes to that side of the team leadership.
          Ferrari’s problem was lack of the, so to speak, minister of the technical thingies – running the team. That’s where they need someone like Brawn.

          1. Exactly. I know someone who used to work with Mattiacci at Ferrari (on the car sales side of things) and apparently he’s a really determined and intelligent person but he’s not technical and hasn’t worked in motorsport before. His degree is in economics…….

            He’ll do a good job at Ferrari but they clearly need someone technical to run that side of things and Brawn would be a perfect fit.

      3. Mark in Florida
        5th September 2014, 3:16

        If Mercedes claims to be willing to get rid of one of their drivers probably Nico if they can’t get along. If Ross Braun does go to Ferrari Nico could end up there. Ross would be great at Ferrari he knows the system and knows how to get it done to win a championship. Mercedes has turned into a total political circus to many heads on one body too many mouths talking at once. Ross is quiet but powerful voice that guides the squad to victory. I can only hope that the rumors are true and Ferrari can get Alonso another wdc before he retires.

        1. Just a thought,
          is marco there to just get a taste of the coal face ?
          Then he gets put in as a senior exec?


          This should be bigger news than 2 merc kissing

          1. Paolo Bettini
            5th September 2014, 8:15

            Mattiacci is probably the most dynamic and effective leader in Ferrari. He’s been personally groomed for the top job by LdM himself, w/ a demonstrated track record of stunning success throughout Ferrari’s geographic business units.

            The only thing missing was direct operating experience on the racing side, and the only suitable role for him in light of his future ascendancy was of course at head of F1 team…

  4. I don’t know if someone has suggested it before, but what they should’ve done with Parabolica is leave a strip of gravel next to the track and then tarmac all the way to the wall (basically the reverse of what we have now).

    Then you have the best of both worlds, the driver looses time if he goes slightly off line, but the car slows down if he’s going to hit the tyre barrier.

    1. On the face of it that sounds perfect! Not sure if there’s something motorbike related that would make it not so much…

    2. Woudlnt cars potentially end up in the air, heading into the barrier?

      1. If they dug into the gravel then hit the edge of the tarmac? I would think that would be guaranteed.
        I imagine the astroturf is supposed to achieve this effect with less disastrous consequences.

    3. @mantresx

      It wouldn’t be safer, just imagine a situation as what @scalextric explained.
      But I think Monza could have set a new standard, by creating a thin strip of those fancy tungsten enhanced asphalt bands, that you can see at PaulRicard. It is a safe solution and not only hurts the laptime, but also the tyres. Of course the new standard would have been, changing gravel to this kind of runoff area.

      1. I don’t think that would be acceptable to FIM – could you imagine the potential injuries that could happen if a motorcycle rider ended up sliding over one of those abrasive strips at high speed?

        1. I don’t think it’d be that much of an issue; their leathers are pretty hard-wearing, and should offer sufficient protection.

  5. Hang on, Montezemolo brings in Mattiacci to fix the team and now there thinking of punting him?

    1. At first most of us thought Mattiacci was just keeping the seat warm for Brawn.

    2. Paolo Bettini
      5th September 2014, 8:18

      LdM is going to Alitalia and Mattiacci to the head of Ferrari to replace LdM. The only one who’ll be punted is Kimi, to be replaced by Lewis in 2015 (hence Wolff’s pre-emptive shocker about line up changing).

  6. Man…if those ferrari rumors are true that would be a huge shakeup. I’m sure Brawn will bring ferrari into a renaissance

  7. OK so now its clear that next year’s McLaren line-up will be Vettel and Montoya

    1. We wish…..

  8. Massa defends Hamilton? That really tells you who the sport is with right now haha!

  9. Chris (@tophercheese21)
    5th September 2014, 1:04

    ahah that Brundle tweet is gold.

  10. Massa is right.
    Rumors that Hamilton could join Brawn at Ferrari. Before anyone jumps to any conclusion, probably is just a rumor. But, apparently, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton are testing the market.. Let’s see who makes the first move.

  11. It’s interesting that Alonso also commented on the Spa incident and labeled it “just a racing incident” that doesn’t really merit any attention. He says it’s only big deal because it’s between teammates and because it punctured Lewis’ tire, but that consequence doesn’t really mean it was anything more than a regular touch which is happening all the time.
    I know I’d definitely listen to Alonso than Massa…

    1. Alonso is hardly going to say it was worthy of a penalty after he stuck his front wing into the back of Vettel in the same race!

    2. To be fair, in previous races, we’ve seen penalties given for a lot less. The fact is that it was avoidable and it ruined Hamilton’s race. That was enough for a penalty earlier in the season.

      I prefer the FIA letting more go so I’m not going to criticise them for their decision in this case but Massa has a point, it would have been a penalty if this happened in Bahrain.

    3. The big question F1 pundits and FIA experts should be making is: “Should all racing incidents is free of penalties?”

      How many fouls in football or basketball are “not intentional?” At this level, some drivers should be better prepared to understand the simplicity of “cost/benefit” analysis and that’s a great way to hand out penalties in every court.

      Vettel’s remark is rather comic and Alonso being involved in a similar error of judgment with minor consequences where he was “the hitter” certainly would not put it differently…

  12. I don’t see Vettel moving out of Red Bull so soon. I think it’s inevitable that one day he will leave – he has such a potentially long career left I can’t see him being married to Red Bull for all of it, especially considering how quickly things change in this sport. Personally I think it’d be the wrong time for him to jump – there’s no guarantee that he’d find himself in a winning car with McLaren, it would look to many that he was running away from the challenge of beating Ricciardo if he left after this year, it would appear ungrateful to leave the team that gave you four world championships, after one season of lacklustre results, and it has been said many times that Vettel doesn’t race for money – so what carrot can Ron Dennis dangle in front of him?

    The only thing that makes me think he would leave for McLaren in 2015 is that he would want to emulate his childhood hero and go to a historic team, build it around him, and win titles with it after a barren period. It’d be funny to me to see that happen again, but this time to Ferrari’s oldest rival.

  13. The Ferrari article comes from one of Germany’s most unserious motorsport tabloids. Not much more than wild speculation and attention-grabbing.

  14. “Now I face a new challenge (Formula E) and just say, publicly and openly, I do not want to know anything about Formula 1 because I think what is happening is ridiculous, shameful and disappointing for me and for many other drivers who have the level to be there.
    It is not a sport where are the best in the world.”
    Words of Alguersuari in the article at Diario Sport from Spain.

  15. Translated from Alguersuari:

    I currently do not consider Formula 1 as a sport. In recent years it has lost a lot of it, especially since agreements on spending limits are not reached and never will because the positions and interests are opposed. It is full of private investors who do not understand races nor motorsport and just want their investment to be profitable at the end of the season. The one with the [best] car wins and others are behind, although it is clear that drivers can still make small differences, but today everything about engines, tires and performance in general has been lost. The F1 is halfway between being a marketing platform to sell more cars and the direct performance. Today it is a hybrid between the two. The manufacturers are gone and it’s clear that F1 has been lost as a sport and therefore I do not consider it. Driving a Formula One was difficult, very difficult, and today, however, a 16 years old guy can get into the car and be competitive. Do not forget that the cars are 5 seconds slower than they were and are at the height of a GP2 or World Series seconds.

    I don’t understand how having the best car and winning is any different from, say, 1988? 2004? 1992? 1978? and so many seasons were 1 team, with the correct resources and intelligence has been totally dominant. Alguersuari was racing when Vettel was smashing everyone and he seems to forget it, weirdly.

    F1 doesn’t necessarily need manufacturers to be in the sport. It’s good, but it’s not essential. Privateers have dominated this sport for a long time (Williams, Lotus, McLaren, Red Bull, Benetton, Brabham…) and all the car manufacturers did was build the engine, just like today. And in many cases, they were supplying more than said team.

    I get the feeling from his comments that he’s just bitterly having a go at F1 because they sacked him, which is fair enough as I think he had something to show for, but that’s life in F1. Some win, some lose.

    If anything, F1 as a motorsport is as healthy as ever. It’s the surroundings, not the lack of performance, that make it look like a second tier event. And the responsables has been in the sport for decades now.

    1. Although he might have one or two good points, for the most part he just comes across as extremely sore.

      1. My reaction was in line with this but in the opposite direction. I thought that even if Jaime might sound very sore, he clearly put out some very good points.
        I can’t see how Formula E can be the ideal solution for motorsports, really, but he depiction of the actual state of F1 seems spot on to me. Yes, having the “pinnacle” of motorsports with almost no presence of the top manufacturers is bad. Yes, having teams selling a seat for a practice session or two is very, very bad.
        Obviously, this view will not be seen with sympathy in this space because, as the name suggests, we are all “fanatics”, but for people outside this ring of hard-core motorsports fans F1 is a strange beast, and those details make a difference. A friend once told me F1 is “the american football of motor racing: a bit of something that resembles a sport, a big show, and a lot of business”.

  16. Alonso’s crazy signing session. Somewhere in the middle is a disguised Marco Mattiacci holding a conReb Bull racing spytract renewal…

    I was on the floor with this one, I haven’t laughed this hard in years! OMG!!!!

  17. That 1954 footage is lovely, if shaky. I love seeing the disparity in appearance between the lumpen, open-wheeled Ferraris and Maseratis (they weren’t at their prettiest until the narrower nose premièred 2 or 3 years later), and the elegant but vast looking Merc streamliners. Seeing footage of them also overtaking- particularly when it includes drivers as brilliant as Moss, Fangio, and Ascari, and in such a famous corner- is great.

  18. In today’s world of media, if we had a driver that spoke like Aryton, he (or she) would be a nightmare for the teams PR people. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for athletes giving their PR people and the media a hard time.

    1. He will also get a lot of comments similar to what Hamilton gets when he says how things are of the type of “petulant behavior” “immature for saying things to the press” “not very professional” etc.

  19. Happy birthday guys @Maciek @Us_Peter and @ Dominikwilde!

  20. I think Button is right when he remarks that until very recently Rosberg would have more or less automatically gotten a penalty because the other guy got a puncture. But those harsh penalties for what came down to taking a risk racing were ditched because teams and drivers asked the FIA to drop them, and I think the racing is the better for it.

  21. Amazing the YouTube clip were Senna calls Prost a coward.
    I like the way he shares uninhibitedly what he thinks.

  22. Not if the aggrieved driver is Lewis Hamilton!

  23. Wow, footage from the no Parabolica times (just those two Porphiry Bends were there). I guess we’re still better off now…

  24. Seriously, Massa… If someone should have used his brakes, it was you in Hockenheim. Stop blaming and critizing everyone else and drive properly. @Keith it would be interesting to see statistics in terms of number of crashes Massa has been involved with during his F1 career ;)

    1. Probably no more than anyone else, at least not by a significant amount. Remember, he was pretty handy at Ferrari until Hungary ’09.

  25. For how much I’d love to see Brawn back at Ferrari, I’d feel sorry for Mattiacci. He seems a likeable guy, hasn’t put himself on display and has concentrated on doing his job. He’s had too little time to see improvements but has done well, and an eventual sacking would be undeserved: only because Ferrari know Brawn is very good at doing that job they decide not to take a risk with Mattiacci, who might very well be just as good.

  26. Whether or not Massa is right, it’s a bit rich him commenting on that, when he crashed at most of this year’s races.

    Also Wolff is quite wrong to discipline Rosberg, when the FIA do not believe it is a punishable offence, especially when Hamilton was allowed to ignore team orders at Hungary.

    If Mercedes want to get rid of one of their drivers consider this. Rosberg is quietly getting on with the job and leading the championship. Hamilton makes a huge issue of everything, and is rude when he doesn’t get his way, he is high maintenance and expensive/

    If Rosberg becomes champion he will be a worthy champion.

    If Hamilton wins his legacy will be stained by his petulent behaviour.

    He should buzz off to Ferrari where he will have his ego stroked, earn a lot of money and get number one status.

    He might not win anything, but his twin gods of money and status will sated.

  27. Ayrton at his best- always very passionate in and out the car…………. Mansell could not agree with his comments more!! I would love to see some comments from the drivers like this now days!!!

  28. Formula Indonesia (@)
    5th September 2014, 16:52

    Look at yourself Felipe, how can you comment a accident while you also made a lot of accidents. Button backed Hamilton because Hockenheim, I’m not say Rosberg was right, but this issue should not raise up again

  29. @fer-no65 there’s a popular adage in Portuguese speaking countries saying “there are people who are great poets when silent” and I think it’s the case here.

    Jaime should just shut up. He talks about investors who do not know much about the sport and exposes himself as one who lacks some knowledge of the history of F1, particularly last two decades.

  30. Alex McFarlane
    5th September 2014, 20:16

    Those power unit component usage figures look ominous.. looks like virtually everyone will be penalised before the end of the season.

    It would be funny if all 22 cars went over the limit, the grid penalties would end up making no difference, a rule that neutralised itself. Well done the FIA.

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