DTM should count towards F1 superlicence – Paffett

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In the round-up: Former McLaren test driver Gary Paffett says drivers should be able to earn points towards their F1 superlicence in the DTM.

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Paffett says new F1 super license system is flawed (Reuters)

"Omitting certain championships, and especially the DTM, from the super license points system is quite a flaw."

McNish backs 1000bhp F1 plan (Autosport)

"1000bhp is something they are talking about for 2017, but (it needs to be) more horsepower and a little bit more tricky; something that requires the driver to work physically as well."

Formula One champion Lewis Hamilton to become top paid driver with mega £25m-a-year deal (The Daily Star)

"Not everyone gets to work with such a great team.They helped me to my dream with a great and dominant car."

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There were some people who preferred the noise of the old cars, but the Comment of the Day:

there was a significant part of the crowd who were thoroughly fed up

In my opinion is inaccurate as there were neither a “significant” part of the crowd complaining, neither were the crowd “thoroughly fed up”.
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57 comments on “DTM should count towards F1 superlicence – Paffett”

  1. Gary’s totally right. Him, Bruno Spengler, Matius Ekstrom, Marco Wittman, Robert Wickens, Paul di Resta, Timo Glock, Dani Juncadella, Pascal Wehrlein… I could go on… How can a championship that good not give you super license points and national F3 cups do?

    1. @jmc200 I’m just guessing here but it maybe because DTM is only run nationally while the other series do take in a few different countries.

      1. Well they have races in multiple European countries, and they’ve had a couple in China. Of course around half the races are in Germany, but still.

        1. Why should the location of racing venues be an issue. Super licence points should be awarded on the ability to handle and race high powered cars. This FIA ruling is about nothing more than shoring up Jean Todt’s cartel of race series. I hope that Renault take the FIA to court…

        2. Yeah, but Indycar only has a couple of none USA rounds too, so that should not be an issue.

          I agree with Paffet as well on this.

      2. More likely because DTM doesnt have formula cars. Looking at WEC, only LMP1 awards points.

    2. I don’t agree. What has stock car racing anything to do with open wheel racing, drivers just barge each other of the road, where is the driving standards and the rules any similar to FIA championships, there’s no link hence no points.

      1. What have prototypes to do with F1 then, @peartree. Pre-2015 DTM has more to do with F1 than the WEC does.

        1. @klon LMP1 which is the only category that awards points, shares safety standards and technology with F1, also F1 is prototype and so is LMP1, not to mention that the Wec champioship is FIA approved and shares many of the venues.
          @magillagorilla although DTM has nothing to do with NASCAR, both are stock car championships…. DTM cars are much more technological advanced than many of the worlds most notable series that said, as it isn’t a FIA championship it does not share safety standards, racing standards, overall procedures, not to mention how different the cars are between both competitions. The real snub is Renault 3.5, that is the political decision, DTM is fair.

      2. @peatree …dtm isn’t stock cars first off, they may have been at one point but they are hardly linked to the cars they’re derived from as much as Toyota Camry in NASCAR is related to the road variant (it isn’t a single bit other than the Toyota Badge). The DTM cars are far more related than you give them credit for and there is a reason why it’s a series that F1 drivers have come from or go to after F1.

  2. I thought Alonso and Vettel both signed £30plus million contracts so even at £25 million Hamilton won’t be the best paid.

    1. I am pretty sure Alonso and Vettel’s deals were 30 million euros (which currently convert to 23.45 million pounds). But to be honest, the daily star isn’t exactly a very reliable source. They tend to manipulate facts and quotes to make stories sound bigger than they actually are.

      1. yep its euros, my numbers were euros too sorry about that.

      2. ColdFly F1 (@)
        11th January 2015, 9:47

        Yep, it’s a crap article.
        They put in some ‘borrowed’ quotes (uncredited) from other magazines and none of those point in any way to that number.

        And just to show how ‘crap’ the article is.
        It states: “Niki Lauda, his biggest fan, is confident Hamilton will put pen to paper pretty soon.”
        And than quoting Lauda as saying “I am not worried about any delays” and “we are in no rush”.

        1. @coldfly I don’t find “confident Hamilton will put pen to paper pretty soon” and “I am not worried about any delays………we are in no rush” to be (too) contradictory.

          The “Niki Lauda, his biggest fan” thing, though………..is just plain awful.

          1. ColdFly F1 (@)
            11th January 2015, 15:59

            @davidnotcoulthard, agree that it is not per se contradictory (I did not claim that either). But it is unclear to me how those quotes led them to make the first statement.
            It seems they are just making things up, and then put some unrelated quotes next to it to make it more believable.

          2. @coldfly Ah, I see. You’re right:)

        2. @coldfly @davidnotcoulthard It should actually read “Niki Lauda, an elderly fan” ;)!

    2. I think for Hamilton its £25 million a year, so say a three year deal its £75 million. Ferrari got Vettel with a multi year deal for 50 Million. I think Alonso is getting 50 million for two years but im not sure about that one.

    3. I don’t understand it either. Although according to multiple sources (BBC, Sky etc.), Alonso is getting paid £25,500,000-a-year, which should still make him the highest-paid driver in F1 beyond 2015. Correct me if I’m wrong.

  3. It looks like the FIA are trying to steer young drivers who are interested in driving for the pinnacle of motorsport into its own feeder series. I think their rationale is, that they don’t want young drivers going to other series not run by the FIA as a “shortcut” or “backdoor” into the F1 championship. This then leaves drivers in the lurch, those of whom have taken the Indycar route in america, or DTM, or another series right now.
    While I understand their rationale, it is somewhat short sighted. While F1 remains the pinnacle of motorsport and has that allure, it will attract top drivers, however, if they make it nigh on impossible to enter, and continue to have a shrinking number of cars on the grid, then they won’t have any pool of drivers to pick from. As such, talent will eventually dry up as we cycle through the current crop of youngsters, and we end up with a championship of late 30 year olds and 40 year olds.
    In my opinion, the FIA should treat any other series to the level of indycar or v8 supercars in australia, outside of Europe as a tier below F1, similar to GP2, if not higher. It should then treat series within europe like DTM and other tin top classes at a slightly lower level to GP2.
    This would then need to be balanced out by the amount of races each of those championships have per year, to balance it out.

    1. I agree. While I do think the concept overall is a good one, the FIA is clearly trying to also cement themselves as the most prestigious governing body by giving more importance to series they govern – badly in many cases.

      It’s ludicrous to think that driving Nascar or Indycar is less competitive or credible than GP2

    2. @dragoll
      Totally agree on the fact that the FIA is trying to make its own series more valuable in terms of points than the other series, i still cannot believe that the WSR 3.5 has less points than GP2. Maybe Jean Todt forgot that Sebastian Vettel, Robert Kubica, Daniel Ricciardo, Jean Eric Vergne and Kevin Magnussen all made it to F1 through the WSR

      1. @tifoso1989 No, he probably all but forgets it, which in turn is perhaps why this opportunity was used to undermine WSR.

        Just like http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_incompatibility/

        1. I meant he remembers it very clearly, or something to that effect.

        2. @davidnotcoulthard
          As a software engineer i have to thank you for the choice of the article !!!

      2. And only two of those drivers will be lining up to race next year.

  4. Yeah DTM should be on the list, along with all forms of GT racing and LMP2. I like the new system though stops a lot of the pay drivers, and GP2 championship winners get a better chance.

    1. I reckon my daily commute should have qualified me.

      1. Good one :)

    2. It won’t necessarily stop pay drivers as even the lower categories are starting to require drivers bring backing to get a seat.

      Something also been ignored is that many of the lower categories now are still dependent on getting into the right team so the new system will exclude good drivers who are not getting the results because there not in one of the better teams. At present an F1 team can spot these guys & bring them into F1 anyway, In future this will not be the case.

      1. Good point about the team you are in when competing in a series, its not unlike F1 where the team/car matters as much as skill. In GP2 its pretty much DAMS or ART you have to be with, in other series its also the top 2-3 teams yeah.

      2. @gt-racer Indeed, I think Red Bull noticed Daniel Ricciardo when he was pushing their junior drivers like Alguersuari and Hartley, in FR2.0, despite being in a slower team. They then picked him up, and the rest was history.

    3. I disagree. If you want a super licence to drive an open wheel Formula 1 car, then in my opinion you should have to prove that you’re capable of racing an open wheel race car, whether it’s a GP2, Indy Lights, IndyCar, or Formula 3.5 car. If start opening up the classes to include production, or touring cars, or whatever the DTM likes to call themselves, then where do you draw the line? Do you say DTM counts, but V8 Supercars doesn’t? Similar horsepower, similar quality drivers. Then what happens when someone who competes in the WTCC calms they deserve a super licence.

      1. But what about prototypes? they have to count. But yeah it opens the box as too say which category’s provide points and which ones shouldn’t.

  5. The FIA found a lot of fans for itself. :D

  6. One of the aspects of the new super licence system that concerns me is the short notice that drivers have been given before its implementation. All of a sudden, aspiring F1 drivers may find out that what they have been doing for the past three years is lowly valued or ignored completely by the FIA.
    As Gary Paffet has pointed out, drivers have come from DTM to F1 roles before (and I feel that they have generally done good jobs), so some drivers on the DTM grid may have been hoping to do something similar. However, they now have no such option.

    1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
      11th January 2015, 4:01

      ^ Comment of the day, right there.

  7. This looks like a blatant attempt by FIA at establishing monopoly in motorsport. They should have their backsides kicked by EU commission and put under constant watch. Half of the things FIA and/or FOM are doing seem to be bordering on criminal.

    1. It was ever thus, in the good old days any promoter staging a race not sanctioned by the local FIA affiliate would be blacklisted for FIA events, and I think drivers also faced the same restrictions.

  8. McNish is on the whole right but the conclusion that more power is needed is wrong, wrong, wrong, all that is needed is a reduction in “downforce”, reducing the size of the wings and/or floor should be the 1st step(s). Many financial savings could also be achieved useing this method, whereas changing the engine rules will inevitably lead to higher costs.

    1. Indeed. I think I say it every year, but less aero and wider tyres. Less aero wider tyres. Less aero wider tyres..

      Ok that’s enough for this year :)

    2. @hohum Be careful not to make the cars too slow when reducing aero, though!

      1. @davidnotcoulthard,@austus, ; @john-h, has provided the answer that should have been obvious ie; less aero drag = higher speed, wider tyres = increased grip, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

        1. less aero drag = higher speed, wider tyres = increased grip

          Yeah. Still, there is a point at which even when the tyre is wider, the grip will still not be enough. I was just sort of warning about that.

    3. Meanwhile, as F1 becomes as slow as Formula E.

  9. The original rules where drivers had to be at least 18 years old and have 2 years experience sounded fair enough. But this point system is ridiculous.

    1. I’m guessing that if Ferrari wanted to run a driver without those points an exception to the rule would be found.

      1. I think that even if its not Ferrari but a small team who just badly needs to sign a driver to be able to be on the grid (see Will Stevens driving for Caterham on a superlicence issued on Friday , surely he was rather low on “points” too, but if the need is there, a licence is handed out anyway), as we have seen in the past @hohum

        1. @bascb, agreed, I just picked Ferrari as the most likely to succeed.

  10. I think the FIA have over reacted. Racing in F1 is not that difficult. Points should not be the only yardstick that determines qualification. I would rather they had gone for a minimum number of miles in the lower series and meeting some performance criteria such as lap time average. Many good drivers don’t even score good points in the lower series for a variety of reasons.
    But the bunch running the show have never been known to be sensible.

  11. I haven’t been complaining much about the 2014 sound but watching the 2010 British GP yesterday did make me feel a bit nostalgic. I often found myself thinking about the sound and more ‘visible’ speed. It’s probably also because Webber won it but it felt like a long time I enjoyed a race that much, and that was whilst I knew the result beforehand…

  12. I think I agree with Paffett that DTM should count for Superlicence points, but it doesn’t change the fact that the flow of drivers has been in the majority from F1 to DTM rather than from DTM to F1.

    I think, a bit like the comments on Formula E, that it doesn’t really exist as a “Feeder” series to Formula 1 but more of an alternative instead, and therefore giving it points to do so doesn’t seem like a priority. Without an encyclopedic knowledge of drivers who drove in DTM before going to F1 via other series then I can’t tell you how important it is to give them points for that experience, however.

  13. they’re doing this all wrong. The FIA should use F1 to promote motorsport in general not call into doubt the value of its various highways and byways. I’d much rather they created a path to welcome new constructors alongside this set of hoops for drivers.

  14. Isn’t there any kind of discretion clause in the super licence points rule? It’s bonkers that, say, Schumacher wouldn’t have been able to make his come back or Rossi couldn’t have made the switch from motorbikes.

    Stupid FIA again.

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