Monza ‘can close new F1 deal’

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In the round-up: The mayor of Lombardy is optimistic of signing a new Italian Grand Prix for Monza next month.

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Monza inching closer to fresh Italian GP deal (F1i)

"With an investment tax free, we can close the deal with Ecclestone by early September."

Baku street layout ready for sign-off by FIA (Motosport)

"The circuit will be capable of hosting 19,000 seated spectators, but organisers are also considering a general admission area to increase capacity."

Alonso: Pit-lane push underlines love for F1 (Crash)

"Every race is a test for us - we need to keep improving and we need to keep growing."

Johansson: Haas has done its homework ahead of F1 entry (NBC)

"If I was Manor and I was offered a Ferrari I’d jump at it! Who wouldn’t?"

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Comment of the day

I absolutely share this enthusiasm for the return of wide F1 cars since the narrow-track rules came into force in 1998:

When I started watching F1 on TV back in 2000, we also had CART/Champ Car coverage by ESPN in India. I used to wonder why don’t F1 cars look as wide as those sleek CART Lolas and Reynards? A few years later I learnt that they didn’t look as wide because they weren’t wide, with narrow track coming in since 1998.

For over ten years I longed to see wide track return to F1. I’m so, so happy now – my dream is coming true. Now the cars will look infinitely more attractive and finally, WIDE, the way racing cars should always be!
@PT

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On this day in F1

Jochen Rindt took his final grand prix victory 45 years ago today in the German Grand Prix. This was the first world championship race held on the Hockenheimring.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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79 comments on “Monza ‘can close new F1 deal’”

  1. I don’t know, car width isn’t really a change aimed at getting to the bottom of the overtaking problem (dirty air and disruptive wake etc). If we are going back in time with rule changes, I’ll start getting excited when venturi tunnels and the ground effect principle is brought back to F1.

    1. @calum, you need to be careful about using the term “ground effect”, since that is not synonymous with a sculpted underbody. The current cars still exploit ground effects to increase the effectiveness of the front wings and the floor of the cars and could, on a technical basis, be classified as a ground effect car.

    2. @calum

      I’ll start getting excited when venturi tunnels and the ground effect principle is brought back to F1.

      Which is whats happening for 2017.

      One of the reasons they want to make the cars wider is because wider cars would allow for wider diffusers & larger tunnels under the cars.

      As I discussed in some of my post’s in yesterdays round-up the wider cars ontop of wider tyres will move the balance a bit more towards mechanical grip which will be a benefit for overtaking.

      The benefits of moving towards ground effects via shaped floors/venturi tunnels is that the underside of the car produced very efficient downforce that isn’t affected by turbulent air because clean or turbulent air is accelerated through the tunnels the same way.

      1. @gt-racer, I wouldn’t necessarily say that the underbody of a car is completely unaffected by turbulence – it may not necessarily be quite as noticeably affected as a wing, but turbulence will still have an overall negative impact on a sculpted underbody.

        It is also not entirely clear if the new regulations will actually result in the overall grip balance, if I can put it that way, being shifted towards the tyres – the fact that the aerodynamic surfaces are also being increased by a proportionate amount raises the possibility that the overall balance may only be slightly shifted one way or another.

    3. Wide cars will only offset how ridiculously long the cars have become. It’s shallow to try to improve f1 just focusing on the children from the 80’s. I think f1 cars should be small and as light as possible purely because light is fast.

      1. @peartree, why are you automatically assuming that the wheelbase of the wider track 2017 cars will remain the same as the current cars?

    4. As i understand the changes the width has a lot to do with sensitivity for dirty air and the change also incorperates bigger diffusors, i.e. more use of underbody aero effects (so called ground effect) @calum

  2. I am a Vettel fan but I have to admit that I respect Alonso for his skills and spirit. The only thing that I hate about him is how “unclean” he is wherever he goes. Hungary 2007 qualifying, Blackmailing McLaren in 2007 to get No 1 status in the team, Singapore 2008 crashgate, 2010 Germany and robbing Massa’s win. and 2012 dirty tricks with Vettel. I think this is the reason why he is not going to win another championship in contrast to Hamilton and Vettel.

    1. I forgot to mentions also the dirty tricks against Hamilton by saying that Massa is probably the fastest teammate he had which is ridiculous if you see how Hamilton was performing in his first year in F1.
      http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27957343

      1. LOL I always thought it was obvious he’s not including Hamilton. Now that you mentioned it tough, it sounds ridiculous!
        But then again Hamilton and Alonso kept saying for years that they also saw each other as competition while Vettel was winning the championships.

    2. You forgot to mention this ridicilous incident between Alonso and Doornbos at ’06 Hungarian GP FP1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYXx7ybEFpI

      1. @huhhii: and what about the slow down lap in Abu-Dhabi 2010 and waving Petrov :)

      2. FlyingLobster27
        2nd August 2015, 9:11

        That Doornbos incident is what makes me cringe when I hear Alonso-WEC rumours. If he hasn’t learned any patience since then, he’ll blow his top in LM traffic that isn’t legally obliged to move over for you.

        1. That’d be fun to watch!

    3. @malik
      I don’t understand why isn’t there some button to ignore some users. I never minded dirty words, they are part of the language. But the thing I definitely can’t handle is this dose of rubbish in your comments that insults intelligence.

      1. @brace: Have you read my first sentence??

      2. I love irony. Thank you.

    4. 2005: Brake checks Doorbos in Hungary. Almost as dumb as brake checking a cop. Cameras everywhere.
      2006: Blames Michelin for bringing an inferior tyre to Bridgestone while Schumi blows hot mid-season.
      2007: Indianapolis/Hungary.
      2008: Singapore.
      2009: FA thanks and credits Briatore for podium finish after the latter is banned for life.
      2010: Hockenheim(Ferrari’s fault, too), blames Petrov after Abu Dhabi GP.
      2011: Nothing?!
      2012: Files a protest against Vettel for “overtaking under yellow” after championship is over.
      2013: Says he wants a Red Bull for his birthday/Mockingly calls his own team a genius after Monza qualifying doesn’t work out.
      2014: Calls out his boss(Something about Alonso not being motivated).
      2015: Says he thinks about other racing categories. McLaren don’t need that kind of attitude especially now.

      He’s an exceptional driver though.

      1. Good summary.

      2. What about the time he brake checked Coulthard? Was it 2003? DC ended up in gravel. They said he braked a hell of a lot earlier, but wasn’t punished for some reason?

        1. Jeez, I wonder what he did in his karting days. Maybe pull up next to a competitor and pull the switch on the engine? I’ve actually heard of this happening in the 4-stroke categories where the switch is very easily accessible.

      3. @kobayashi24 For the Petrov incident, I don’t understand why people hate on Alonso so much, but to be fair, HE DID JUST LOSE A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Everything he has worked towards, all gone. The main reason he was angry at Petrov was a incident soon after he pitted, where he went for a lunge up the inside, and Petrov just cut him off. It could very well have ended Alonso’s race. It must also noted that I’ve seen being get much, much angrier playing a video game. You can hardly blame the guy. And regarding 2012, firstly, he didn’t file the complaint; Ferrari did. And why not. If it might’ve won him the championship, he would easily file 10 complaints. He said it himself. He wants titles above all else; even respect. And

        1. Yeah, really worthy of respect. Like the time McLaren made a complaint against lots of people in Brazilian GP’07, for everyone after 3rd Alonso to 7th Hamilton to be disqualified. Ridiculous stuff.
          If this sort of thing happened, it would first happen to Alonso and his Singapore race win, and eventually the results of that championship.
          Everyone understands him being upset, we can all sympathize to some extent, but that doesn’t mean he’s allowed to behave the way he did.

        2. Titles>Respect? Ok, that’s all I need to hear from you. Have a nice day. :)

      4. I don’t think this is such a damning list really. Doornbos was never going to hit him and the rest is ‘he said something’ or it was his team. Hungary 07 was a joint effort with Lewis. It was Flav who passed on the emails. The Coulthard thing at Nurb was the worst, plus I’d say Bahrain 08, but they all have things like this over the years. Jenson lied over Turkey 2010 and took out both his rivals at Canada 2011, Kimi wouldn’t support Massa without a bribe in 2008 and deliberately put Checo in the wall at Monaco…

        Alonso is generally very clean on track, one of the best. He’s supposed to be mad to win, that’s why we watch, and it’s bound to come out from time to time in ways that are over the line for polite society. Fist-waving in 2010 was pretty mild considering he’d had the championship taken from him, and I admired his loyalty to Flav.

        Anyway you could make a list like this for pretty much any of them, really. I wouldn’t change Nando; it would be boring if he were just normal. I really hope he can land a third championship before he retires, personally. I think that would be justice, though it’s hard to see it right now.

        1. @lockup Agreed. Name one WDC who doesn’t have his controversies and his critics. Going hand in hand with a F1 career that is taken to WDC level is a lot of action and interaction within and with top teams and top drivers which greatly increases, or indeed creates the environment for an enthralling and meaty resume of events.

        2. “Doornbos was never going to hit him”, “It was Flav who passed on the emails”, “Kimi wouldn’t support Massa without a bribe in 2008 and deliberately put Checo in the wall at Monaco”. Fabrication nation! This is why I don’t visit the comment section too often. You didn’t state a single fact -_-

      5. @kobayashi24

        Man you’re really reaching with some of those. I’m not going to forgive stuff like brake-checking other drivers or blocking Lewis in the pits but blaming him for saying stupid stuff in the heat of the moment or when something isn’t going your way is something literally every driver on the current grid has done and will continue to do.

        People still bring up Singapore despite the fact he was proven innocent, everyone is desperate to prove he was guilty though no one has any solid proof of this. And the yellow flag protest was something done by the team boss, Alonso couldn’t have possibly seen Vettel overtaking under yellows as he was infront of him for the whole race. Finally blaming Alonso’s attitude though he has said numerous times he believes in the project and that McLaren are making progress, before delivering them their best result of the season. But as usual everyone always likes to look at the negatives.

        1. 2006: “Alonso accuses Renault of not backing title push”. I usually approach stories like this with skepticism but what good does this kind of press do for anyone? Nobody wins. There must be some kind of truth in it.

    5. That Hungary thing though, I think both Alonso and Hamilton’s fault. It’s a bit like Malaysia’13. It is said that in both cases drivers had a certain agreement, but changed their minds during the event. Vettel didn’t listen to Multi 21, Hamilton didn’t wait for Alonso to go out on track. I don’t know if it was in Hungary or previously at another track Hamilton was supposed to wait for Alonso to go first, but didn’t, a bit like how they have their turns with Rosberg now I guess.

    6. @malik Then how Schumacher and Senna have 10 WDCs between them, I’ll never know…

      1. @mashiat: May Senna RIP and Schumacher be better soon :(

        1. @malik Yes, indeed, but er.. Not my point.

          1. @mashiat2: I know your point exactly but because Senna has passed away and Schumacher is struggling to be alive I would not say anything about what they were doing to win championships.
            The final thing that I would say is that instead of 10 championships between them both they could have at least 15 but I believe in karma.

  3. It was only a few days ago he was bashing the sport and saying he’s considering alternative options and now he’s singing a different tune.

    Pushing a broken down car doesn’t mean he’s in love with the sport. Alonso has and will always be a devious and divisive character. I just wish people would stop blowing smoke up his behind about how he’s the greatest of his generations, when it’s clear that he’s not

    1. Fair point but people don’t call him the greatest of his generation for his tactics but it’s for his driving and at that, you cannot disagree. He certainly is!

      1. @neelv27
        I can and I will disagree. He couldn’t beat a rookie in 2007. He’s consistent and his Ferrari never broke down during his fights for the championship making him earn a lot of victories and podiums just by staying on track. But I’ve never seen anything magical from him. Nothing like, say, Schumacher in ’96.

        1. Did you miss the 2012 season? And the second half of the 2010 season?

          You might not like Alonso’s character, but you clearly aren’t watching formula 1 if you deny he is among the top 3 drivers that have raced in the sport over the last decade.

          Give 2007 a rest. Vettel, a 4 time WDC, got beaten by Ricciardo last year. Does that make him any less of champ?

          1. They are all doing superb jobs. I love watching them all 3.
            Well except for when they don’t have the car to win races, or use rather underhanded methods to gain advantage.

        2. In 2007, while Hamilton was a rookie, he was very familiar with that McLaren, due to testing still being allowed. He had logged tons of miles before the season. One could also easily argue that Hamilton wasn’t just some anonymous rookie!

        3. Hamilton: A lot of testing under his belt. Look how Raikkonen did with only 23 car races before his F1 debut. One of the best drivers in F1 now so it’s funny you just call him a rookie. Talent is talent.
          Where was Massa to help in out during the Ferrari years? Sure, Webber wasn’t purposely helping Vettel but the RBR naturally had the pace to be in front of Vettel’s rivals.
          Nothing magical from Alonso? I don’t know where to start. Maybe start with the fact that he’s never been beaten by a teammate? Please don’t even try to count 2001. Hockenheim ’12 wasn’t bad either.

          1. Lewis Hamilton.

      2. It’s such a simplistic thing to say people call him the greatest of his generation because of his driving, as most of the arguments against him are already related to his on track and driving-related tactics anyway.

        1. Alonso was easily the class of the field in both 2010 and 2012; coming within a whisker of beating Vettel in a clearly inferior car (probably the 3rd best car). As for all these off track incidents, is it not true that fans are always looking for more drama and for drivers with more character and controversy surrounding them? Alonso brings the entertainment and he does far more for the sport than any robotic, grey drivers who always keep their noses clean.

          1. When you say robotic, I am reminded of his whole speech and answers here:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVoLbUyI0YE
            That was a funny and embarrassing one lol.

          2. You are looking for “characters” with “controversy surrounding them”? I don’t particularly like the drama aspect, though having a bit of a story to go along with the season is enjoyable, but not the endless controversies and baseless rumors. I just watch for the cars and the drivers and the teams.

          3. @11mcgratht In 2010 & 2012 he inherited a lot of points against his rivals thanks to a more reliable car, which does count in the argument of which one was inferior/superior.

          4. @david-a I agree with that. Same thing happened in 2005. Raikkonen had arguably the fastest car, but Alonso definitely had the best car. Alonso and surprisingly Hamilton had far more reliability with their cars compared to the likes of Raikkonen, Button and Vettel.

      3. Actually I can disagree about his driving.

        What is so special about Alonso’ driving that sets him apart from the likes of Lewis and Seb? Absolutely nothing in my book.

        He’s not a good qualifier, he’s surely not quicker than the 2 guys I mentioned above in the races.

        Furthermore, exactly which generation does he identifies with? He started racing with the likes of Kimi, Schumacher, DC, Trulli, Fisi etc. He surely wasn’t better than it more successful than the Schumacher.

        Is it this generation with Lewis and Seb? If so, what has he accomplished since they’ve entered the sport? It’s coming up to 10 years since his last championship and I seriously doubt that he will ever win another one.

        He has been surpassed by Lewis and Seb in almost every category going, barring points and podium finishes (don’t quote me on that, I’m going off the top of my head). So clearly Lewis and Seb are the 2 best drivers of this current generation.

        So my question again is this, which generation does he identifies with and has he been the most successful?

        And please I don’t want to hear about how many times he came close to winning and championship and all that, nearly don’t count.

        1. Vettel is tied in points. Well, that’s a bit mixed up because of various systems actually…
          I also wonder which generation people identifies him with?
          But surely he came much much later than Schumacher into the sport. Of the current drivers he’s more closer to Button, Raikkonen and maybe Massa in terms of debut.
          By the end of this year he will be tied with Jacques Villeneuve for the longest winless streak of a WDC for a champion.

        2. @Kgn11 ‘Nearly don’t count’… hmmm, what a strange thing to say. You point out that Vettel and Hamilton have superior statistics to Alonso by way of illustrating their superiority, but fail to point out that, unlike Alonso (twice!), neither of these drivers have ever dragged the third best car on the grid right into the championship fight (Hamilton has only ever been good when in good machinery, and Vettel more or less likewise – though he is doing a good job in the second best car at the moment).

          Since when does it matter which generation he ‘associates’ himself with? This has more to do with when he was born than anything else and, if anything, is a nod to his longevity in the sport and the fact he has managed to sustain success across generations.

          You also slam him for not having as impressive win and pole statistics as Hamilton and Vettel – since when have these been taken as the measure of a driver’s quality? If they were, would you be prepared to say that Vettel is superior to Senna by virtue of more championsips? I doubt it.

  4. @keithcollantine the image on the homepage for this article isn’t showing up.

  5. Is there a zero missing from that attendance figure? How can Monza’s future be in doubt with over 100,000 attendees, Germany was canned when last year only had just over 50,000 and yet it’s full steam ahead for Azerbaijan’s with a capacity of 19,000?!

    Even if they have they’re eye on Monaco style elite demographics, that race still pulls in about 60,000 people.

    1. @philipgb
      I should remember to refresh before commenting, I just asked the same question. Appears to be a surprisingly small number of seats, less than Monaco, and I’m guessing the lowest seating capacity of a modern GP.

      1. ColdFly F1 (@)
        2nd August 2015, 9:30

        They added the ‘extra zero’ to the cheque for Bernie! @philipgb @beneboy

    2. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
      2nd August 2015, 2:12

      I have no words for how stupid the people who run this sport. Unless the tickets are £3,000, I can’t see how this race will be profitable. Another awful track wasting another slot on the calender.

    3. @philipgb, you need to be careful not to automatically equate the seating capacity with the attendance capacity, since that does not take into account the general admission sales (something which is being considered for this event).

      @beneboy, I am not entirely sure that is the case – the seating capacity at Spa Francorchamps is relatively limited (almost all of the grandstands are around La Source), so Spa might not be that far removed (most of Spa’s official capacity comes down to its generous general admission areas).

      1. I’m not. They’re still only considering general admission.

    4. I think you can even remove a zero and you’ll get around the real number of paying spectators for this ‘European GP’.

      Being European myself, and having European values, I will not switch my TV on to watch this masquerade of European GP.

      1. ColdFly F1 (@)
        2nd August 2015, 9:37

        I cringe every time I read that the European GP will take place in the Asian city of Baku! @jeff1s

        1. Apparently you are not Asian. Well no one needs permission to define themselves as whatever they want.
          It’s not like we are talking about Indian GP here anyway… There is no real-physical-3D border that separates Europe from Asia.
          Nowadays its more politics rather than geography that separates Europeans from non Europeans in any case…

          1. ColdFly F1 (@)
            2nd August 2015, 15:37

            Good name: Yawn.
            Yes there is a physical boundary between Europe and Asia in that area; it’s called the Caucasus. And (most of) Azerbaijan is in the Asian part. Nothing wrong with that!

          2. I didn’t mean mountains and seas by “physical”. Like equator line, you know, not really there there. But whatever… like I said, it depends on how you define it…

      2. @jeff1s @coldfly Azerbaijan (Which is where Baku is) isn’t easily defined as been part of Europe or Asia as its classified as been in both depending on who you ask.
        Reason been its not exactly located in one or the other, Its more inbetween whats usually defined as east-europe & west asia.

        I spent some time in Azerbaijan 6-7 years ago & the country actually has far more in common with europe than asia & most of its citizens & politicians class themselfs as been european.

        Also worth considering that Azerbaijan holds a seat on the European council, They have also spoke about joining the european union & nato.

        Azerbaijan also held the european games this year & took part in & won the eurovision song contest a few years back.

        1. Well even Australia is in the Eurovision contest, so yeah.
          It really depends on how you define Europe.

          99% of Azerbaijan’s population are Muslim.
          Their culture is completely Islamic.

          So I would not call Azerbaijan European.

    5. Abu Dhabi only has a small number of seats, Sochi is some 40-50k max too and I am pretty sure that Bahrain is also about 40k. I guess it makes sense not to go too generous (remember china building for 250k and having a majority of those grandstands covered in ad signs?) especially in a place where there is not much of a motorsport heritage that is going to draw in huge crowds.

      Off course as mentioned, seating capacity is not the same as visitors capacity, especially as its a city event there might be thousands more spots where you can watch standing around.

  6. The circuit will be capable of hosting 19,000 seated spectators

    Is that a typo, or are they really only trying to sell 19,000 seated tickets, plus general admission ?
    Are there going to be lots of places where people can watch for free, or are they not expecting much demand for tickets ?

    1. The latter, I imagine. It’s probably preferable to having 100k seats and only a fraction of that filled though. I don’t see it as such a bad thing, less seating means less track alterations required to accommodate for them. It’s not like this circuit needs to sell tickets to be commercially viable…

  7. I’ll never support rule changes in motorsport for the sake of making the cars ‘aesthetically’ different.

    I’m noting the emphasis on the 2017 ‘let us make these cars look aggressive’ mentality.

    I hope that every rule alteration is done to make the cars genuinely more exciting; not just making wings and flaps on a sharp angle to make it ‘look’ cool. What next ? A rule change to make it mandatory to shoot flames out the exhaust? Formula 1 may as well rename the series Fast and Furious.

    1. I am totally with you there. Who cares what they look like (apart from stepped noses and penis noses) as long as the cars can follow each other and race side by side like they do know. I really don’t want the good work the that Overtaking Strategy Group did to be wiped out to make ‘cool’ looking cars. Unless they all look like Reynard from CART!

      1. @prof-kirk @unicron2002 Whats been planned will take what was learnt via the overtaking working group & improve on it because while some of the OWG findings have worked other things have proven to be flawed.

        The wider front wings for example was found to work, But the narrow/higher rear wing concept has failed to do what they expected it to which was direct airflow away from key parts of the front wing.

        The proposed changes for 2017 are been done not only to take the cars look “more aggressive” there also been done to improve the racing. Wider cars & Wider tyres for example will move the balance more towards mechanical grip, Give the cars a more stable platform & allow drivers to throw them around a bit more & lean on them more through corners & under braking which will have benefits when it comes to overtaking.
        Additionally the wider cars will allow for a wider diffuser & underfloor which will help with the proposed return to ground effects which will again have big benefits for the racing.

        1. @gt-racer, I do hope you are right about drivers being able to throw the car around and lean on them a bit more but there will have to be a complete reversal of tyre degradation characteristics as well or all that additional grip will be nullified by the need to extend tyre life. In fact the current cars could be thrown around and leant on more if only the tyres were able to take it, perhaps the re-design is more about saving face for Bernie than making the cars better.

  8. This new “European” F1 GP in the Asian city of Baku was never meant to be profitable for the country, it is clearly a PR investment to promote the Azerbaijan country brand (and its capital) as a resurgent modern emergent economy, and its potential as an “elite” tourism destination.

    They could add only 1,900 seats to the track and charge 100 euro a piece for them, this is not an issue when you’re drowning in oil&gas…

    1. Probably true but it doesn’t exactly scream “major sports event” if your capacity crowd is 19,000 ish, does it.

      Working on the basis that the race day is always by far the busiest (for obvious reasons) how quiet is it going to look on the Friday? Maybe the fact there won’t be many seats to begin with will help avoid the “there’s lots of empty seats” effect.

  9. This Azerbaijan GP is a disgrace- and it didn’t have to be. For one, I am enticed by that 1.4 mile flat-out section there. But anyway- 19,000 seats? Are you kidding me? There is a fine balance that IMO has to be found for a GP or any other international sporting event, and that is between a public event that people go to have fun and a PR stunt designed to boost the country’s economy. Clearly, the government expects to make losses on the event- losses that will eventually begin to hurt them What person from a free country (countries from where nearly all motorsports fans are from) wants to go to a country where freedoms are restricted- they run the risk of getting themselves thrown in jail for doing something that is second nature to them but is illegal there in Azerbaijan. Also, the July weather is going to be oppressively hot as hell, and no spectator will be able to see very much (unless you can go into a building and watch some of the race there). This GP is an extreme example of a “corporate” F1 race: the kind of race where the only thing that matters is the TV coverage, and the event participants don’t matter at all. I bet most of the press (particularly the specialist press) will not even be allowed into the event.

  10. I’m glad to this.

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