Formula E ‘no competition for F1’ – Agag

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In the round-up: Formula E boss Alejandro Agag denies the series can be considered a competitor to F1.

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High praise for one of Stoffel Vandoorne’s Super Formula rivals:

I’ll say this, Yuhi Sekiguchi’s drive at Sugo was truly reminiscent of what Michael Schumacher could do in his prime. (Ironically, Schumacher’s only race in what is now Super Formula was 25 years ago, and it was also at Sugo.)

After the race, team principal Kazuyoshi Hoshino not only said he should be in F1, but if he had the choice, he’d send him to McLaren over Stoffel Vandoorne.

And he’s not entirely wrong. If Sekiguchi wins the championship, he’ll become only the second rookie champion in series’ history (the other was Ralf Schumacher), going back to its inception in the 1970s. That is a remarkable accomplishment, given that he’s racing against the likes of Andre Lotterer, Kamui Kobayashi, Kazuki Nakajima, Vandoorne and many other true professionals.

That Sekiguchi will never even so much as get a look from F1 teams due to his age, his lack of F1 connections, and the general apathy towards Super Formula unless a bred-for-F1 star like Vandoorne is even taking part is really a shame.
@RJOConnell

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Mark Webber, Porsche 919, London, 2016

Mark Webber drove a Porsche 919 through London yesterday as part of a publicity stunt.

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26 comments on “Formula E ‘no competition for F1’ – Agag”

  1. Thanks for the hi-res Porsche pictures, that’s my desktop background sorted :)

  2. Hi all

    Might be a useful language lesson for myself – when I read the headline I was of the impression that formula e cannot match up to formula one .

    When I read the actual article , the understanding I got was that both formula e and formula one are not comparable , and there is no implication that formula e cannot match up to formula one .

    If there’s anything wrong with my interpretation of the headline for the round up , please correct me .

    Thank you !

    1. ex_F1F_contributer
      28th September 2016, 6:22

      You’re correct @clones.
      This title (even when missing a verb) leads one in a different direction than what’s written in the article.

    2. I dont know where you got this ‘match up’ idea from. The headline matches the article with a direct quote.

    3. The headline of the article is also quoted above. However for me that was not the most interesting part of the article which is why I drew attention to a different part. The quote referenced above can of course also be found in the article.

      This is not unusual, by the way. Sometimes it’s essential as some newspapers group stories about multiple subjects on a single page and the headline might be nothing to do with motor racing at all.

  3. It’s good that they don’t compete with each other. I don’t want them to! They do different things and have different relative strengths and weaknesses.

    On a selfish level I think it’s good there’s a decent alternative series that single-seaters drivers can go to either because F1 is just too short of seats to get into, or because their F1 career was almost over before it began because of the brutal nature of the driver market. It’s good to not lose these drivers entirely to tintops/endurance racing.

  4. I don’t think he was disputing the headline, just noting that it’s interesting that no competition can mean both that they are competing, but one is severely weaker, or that they are simply not competing at all.

    As an anology, it would be like saying manor is not in competition with mercedes because they simply can’t compete. Or that a LMP1 car is not in competition with an F1 car because they are simply uncomparable.

    I think the latter is what clones was getting at.

    1. woops sorry that was meant as a reply to @brawngp

  5. That COTD is a bit much, to be honest. Compare Vandoorne’s resume with that of Sekiguchi and I don’t think there should be any question as to who deserves a place in F1. Sekiguchi’s results in Super GT apparently haven’t been that overwhelming, and his best achievement prior to this year is winning (after competing three years) a national F3 series with a very limited driver field. This was 5 years ago.

    As for this year: the Honda is generally seen as just a bit weaker than the Toyota – Vandoorne is the highest ranking Honda driver, after all. Another consideration is that Sekiguchi has raced in Asia for over a decade, and so would have a lot more knowledge of the tracks than Vandoorne, who is at new venues pretty much every weekend (and still is the top ranking Honda driver!).

    Sekiguchi has raced in a European spec series as well – IFM 2008. He didn’t do that well against in a field of drivers that was “OK-ish” at best and in which, maybe except for Leimer, nobody ever came close to competing at a level desired from F1 drivers.

    With that kind of track record I don’t think it should surprise anyone that F1 teams aren’t looking into him, nor do I feel F1 is really missing out on a huge talent.

    1. @mattds also he didn’t had to step in a mcLaren to replace Alonso and be present at every F1 grand prix so far.

  6. Go Sauber!
    Not a lot that I hear about Sauber is positive of late. “We will only take pay drivers” being the latest. Monisha was caned for the double signing of drivers and for presiding over a time of decline. And let’s face facts, their driver pairing is probably the worst on the grid and the car performance is sliding backwards.
    However, they survive! That may seem like the minimum possible target, however only 3 other teams are true garagista F1 teams with history. i.e. ones not supported by big name companies who will come and go. Williams and McLaren are the others. All the rest may be gone tomorrow if the financial winds prevail. Beyond the 3 remaining teams, every other true F1 team has died or been gobbled up by a major corporation. Sauber’s survival has been against the odds.

    I like to think Sauber have learned their lessons too. Peter Sauber sold out to BMW and it has destroyed the team. Nico Hulkenburg recently commented on this. He said that you could tell that Sauber once had big money but that it had gone and they were constantly downsizing. However FI had never been tainted by big money, so they ran lean. People may ask why I didn’t include FI as an independent like McLaren, Sauber and Williams. Two reasons. History in F1 and the fact that they are a corporation that will sell out if a manufacturer shows interest. But they deserve our respect as well right now IMO.

    For those that admonish Kaltenborn and revere Peter Sauber. Remember that it was his decision to sell Sauber to BMW that was the cause of their downfall once BMW pulled out. Monisha came in after all that and had to clean up the mess. Peter bought back the company to allow her to do that, so he obviously wanted to make right a bad decision and deserves respect for that. However to blame Monisha for it all is wrong. She has managed to keep a team alive in a era where many others have fallen over. That double driver signing thing may have looked bad, but it may also be the entire reason why they didn’t end up in bankruptcy like Manor and Caterham in the same year. Big decisions are never easy. Good people make hard decisions. I am not sure if Monisha is good, but she does deserve a chance to prove herself when time aren’t dire.

    So now I hear that Sauber will only take pay drivers next year. Is that a poor decision? It certainly isn’t a decision that will win you the comp and I am sure isn’t one that Sauber would like to take. However, it is a decision that allows you to remain independent and allow you to build for the future. Take Manor for example. 2 very good drivers. Better than Sauber’s drivers. But who pays their bills. Mercedes! It’s the same result as they are all pay drivers, but Sauber seem to have learned from their mistakes and have taken the independent team option. Yes, their drivers are still owned by companies and Sauber have to report to those companies. However, those companies aren’t your competitors on track! Imagine having your competitors as your financial backers.

    For those that think that McLaren to Honda engines was a bad idea. It wasn’t great, but imagine them trying to beat a Merc with Merc engine this year. Merc would have made sure that it didn’t happen. Independence is key and McLaren took the long hard road to ensure it happens. (They probably didn’t think the road was quite that long though). Ron protected the Honda engine from everyone to ensure that they remain independent and strong. Hate him all you like, but it was a smart decision for their survival.

    Take a look at the teams in F1
    McLaren : Independent (With the backing of the sole Honda Engine and resources)
    Williams : Independent (With Merc Engine, so they will never win.)
    Sauber : Independent. (With Ferrari, so they will never win. But they aren’t in the ballpark right now to demand anything different)
    Force India : Mostly independent (With Merc Engine, so they will never win.)
    Ferrari : Yes they have history and seem independant, but they are owned by one of the biggest car companies in the world.
    Mercedes : Well, it’s Mercedes. Here today, gone tomorrow.
    Red Bull : Fizzy drinks company
    Torro Rosso : Same fizzy drinks company as RB.
    HAAS : Ferrari B team
    Renault : Major manufacturer with a long but not always consistent commitment to F1.
    Manor : Partially independent but with Merc engines and Merc pays for their drivers.

    With that in mind, Sauber are a marvel and they deserve your support.
    RIP Tyrell, Brabham, Minardi, Jordan, Caterham, Marussia, Legier, Arrows and many more I can’t think of right now. All true F1 teams gone in the last 25 years. Many other teams big budget teams have also gone in that time. Probably 15+ teams have gone in the last 25 years, but Sauber remain. Well done Sauber!

    I for one hope that 2017 is a building year again for Sauber. They are one of only 3 properly independent teams.

    1. Good post @mickharrold. …Thanks for the interesting analysis..

    2. @mickharrold Your final resume is quite bias. What you say about Ferrari can also be said about Mercedes, and the other way around,… Then there is your snarky note about Red Bull, in what way are they different from Sauber or Force India bar a bigger budget. RB has done more for F1 than both those combined.

      1. Hey, don’t take me the wrong way. I love what Merc, RB and especially Ferrari have done for F1. Especially Ferrari.
        My point is that apart from Ferrari, all the others could pull the pin on F1 any day. That is because F1 is a side business for them to market their products. Merc, BMW, Renault, Honda, Ford, Jaguar and more I can’t think of have all gone. Some have come back.
        The point is that Williams, Sauber and McLaren are F1 teams first. If they fail, the company fails too. Ferrari should really be in that category too, but they won’t fall over if they leave F1. No other team can claim that they are true F1 teams. All the rest can come and go as they like.
        Sauber deserves our respect for being one of the few to survive as a true F1 team. F1 is their core business, not a side project.

    3. “they deserve your support” Why is that, exactly again? Your article surmises quite simply just “because they’re independent”, and that somehow explains away all their dodgy practices? That you so easily dismiss the effort, expertise, talent and involvement of those on your list from Force India to Manor highlights to me how eagerly one-eyed your comment is.

      I just can’t subscribe to the idea of something being independent meaning it is therefore more superior – in any manner. It’s a pretty ideological viewpoint. Independence is a choice, and even an independent should show through their actions honest and morally good practices, and not have that word be used as a scapegoat.

      I also doubt your claims that a non-works team will never win. Red Bull have proven, quite revolutionarily that there are multiple areas for investment and development beyond the engine. I still argue that Williams would have had a much stronger campaign in this turbo era had they a better driver pool to work with. Especially in 2014 where their machinery was a clear second.

      1. I wrote this before your reply to @xtwl which is a fair retort, yet still falls short, in my estimations.

        All the Formula 1 teams operate essentially apart from their parent companies. In fact a perfect example lies in Sauber themselves, as BMW left they were still able to continue. Brawn continuing Honda is also another example. It’s why there are such positions as team principles. They are given budgets, and resources, but from there it is up to the team to perform.

        Saying that F1 is a side business for these teams is short sighted, at least from the teams perspective, all the teams are Formula 1 teams first, and to suggest all that talent and expertise would just disappear from the field should their corporate sponsors disappear is ridiculous.

    4. To be honest I was quite enjoying your post until the end, which showed a very subjective view of the teams.

      I like Sauber, but not current Sauber….

      Monisha’s business practices may have kept them in business, but for me that cost to their image was not worth it.

      Also, I want to point out that Renault have over the years been extremely committed to F1, and done a lot for the sport. The same as Ferrari, RB, maclaren, et al.

      1. Honestly. I agree with you for the most part. Every team that has ever been involved in F1 has added to the sport. Renault especially. They have been one of the constants in F1. Maybe I went overboard with my comments about other teams as my rant went on. I appreciate them all! You mid find me criticising a few decisions here and there, but I respect every team in F1.
        My point was that all I ever hear about Sauber is negative. It’s been that way for 3 years. I am a little angry about it, because I don’t think they deserve it. It is easy on the outside to pick apart the performance and decisions, but it much harder on the inside to make those decisions
        I am not sure if Kaltenborn is good or not. I am very open to be swayed. What I do know is that when she came along, she was given a package. It was the eaten stomach product of BMW’s meal. “Here you go. Soon, it will turn move through the bowels and come out a turd. I need you to polish it.” Does Sauber look like a turd currently? Yes! Is it polished. No. However, it hasn’t been flushed down the toilet either so it must have a bit of shine. Look Kaltenborn may actually be no good. However people seem to respect Peter Sauber and he respects Monisha Kaltenborn. He should know better than any of us.

        My point is that Sauber are copping it from all angles and I do think it is unfair. BMW spat them out and they were always going to suffer. But they have survived. They have been in F1 for 23 years! Almost a quarter of a century! Only Ferrari, McLaren and Williams can claim to have been around longer. No-one else comes within 10+ years of that. I just think it is sad that everyone has a go at them all the time when they have so much history.

        1. You have also been unfair to Merc, not only Renault. They have been continusly around F1 as long as Sauber has without even counting the early F1 years. Sauber entered F1 as mini Merc team actually and the financial support of Merc. After that Merc went to Mclaren and then made their own team.
          They have been in F1 for 24 years now.

  7. No competition from Formula E? Competition for what exactly?

    There is certainly competition to attract sponsors, casual fans and manufacturers!

    1. There’s two ways to analyse it I guess. I think it was pretty clear in the article that their point of view is at the moment the market and target audience is vastly different for all 3 things you mention.

      However he could just as well be employing I.18-19 of the Art of War: “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away”

      I think it might be a bit of both really. At the very least I think his 50-60 year time frame is quite exaggerated, I’d be surprised if 5-10 or at worst 20 isn’t their goal.

  8. @RJOConnell I must respectfully disagree about Sekiguchi. Four attempts to take the Japanese F3 title and an unwhelming SuperGT CV is not really the hallmarks of a F1 driver. Yes, he has been almighty this year, but being a great racing driver is about having a consistent portfolio of successes at your back and Vandoorne has a better junior CV than most on the F1 grid.

    I agree that F1 teams could learn something from the LMP1 squads that select their drivers from here, there and everywhere, but there is a reason F1 teams select young superstars. Because F1 is all about an insane level of optimisation, drivers need to grow into what is really quite a specific and demanding discipline. You cannot get an Alonso off the shelf, but an ex-F1 driver, like Kamui Kobayashi can go to WEC and expect to be competitive pretty quickly. Optimisation is key.

    1. @william-brierty What you describe has more to do with good drivers being flexible and fast everywhere rather than the cars being ‘easier’ to drive.

  9. Well, I good way to measure success is for stories defending and denying and comparing F1 to Formula E, its a clear gauge for success really.

  10. FE is going to struggle to offer any competition till they sort out their calendar.

    How do you build momentum for a series where it takes 6 months to do 4 rounds and then 10 weeks to do the last 8 races…?

  11. What do we make of Formulae E? Whats with Manufacturers setting their sights on it. It sounds like its going to be massive eventually. Right now i can’t say i enjoy it that much

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