In the round-up: Jenson Button says television camera angles don’t convey the speed of Formula One.
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Jenson Button reveals his new angle on reviving fan interest (Daily Mail)
"If you have a camera all the way down the straight, it doesn’t look very fast – even if you are doing 200mph."
Drivers want more deterrents - Ricciardo (F1i)
"We always talk about it in driver briefings. Whether it’s bringing some gravel back or these sort of speed bump kerb things are doing the job in some areas."
Die geheimen Prognosen fur 2017 (Auto Motor und Sport - German)
Lap time predictions supplied anonymously by the teams indicate performance gains of five seconds per lap for next year compared to a lap of the Circuit de Catalunya in 2015, but another putting the increase as high as nine seconds
Verstappen threatens to cut the radio chat (Reuters)
"On the radio it sounds like I'm arrogant, I'm not listening to the team. But that's not my message to the team. Some fans do love it, some don't. I think it's better to just don't say anything so you have no discussions."
Fernando Alonso keen to know if change afoot at McLaren (Sky)
"First, we need to understand exactly what the real situation is and if there is any change I don't know for sure what these changes are."
Haas changes brake material for Mexican GP (Autosport)
"We do something to do the utmost possible to make sure it doesn't happen again and we hope we get it working. We use a different material here."
Nico Rosberg says atmosphere with Lewis Hamilton is 'intense' (BBC)
"We have had our frustrations already this year. We prepare for whatever we face."
Alonso also suffered puncture in Massa clash (Crash)
"Alonso, however, has revealed he also came close to disaster in the contact after breaking a tyre rim that was causing a slow puncture. Despite this, he did get the better of Sainz on the penultimate lap to finish fifth."
Sebastian Vettel: Ferrari has raised the bar again in 2016 (ESPN)
"Our understanding of this year's car and the cars we've recently built has become a lot better, which should help us again in the future hopefully, but I'm fairly confident on that point."
Vettel: Ferrari's approach doesn't need changing (Motorsport)
"I think what we need to do is exactly what we are doing. I don't think we are lacking anything."
ED moves court, seeks to declare Vijay Mallya an absconder (Times of India)
"In more trouble for the beleaguered businessman Vijay Mallya, the Enforcement Directorate on Wednesday said it had approached the special PMLA court here seeking to declare him an absconder and attach his properties as he did not comply with a proclamation order issued against him."
The tricks of testing without testing (Somers F1)
"The more the chassis dynamometer is used as a driving and setup tool as opposed to just being used to validate the powerunits life cycle and performance the more that can be got from it, with more complex energy schemes used to improve on-track performance."
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Social media
Notable posts from Twitter, Instagram and more:
One of the many problems with those Ecclestone quotes from earlier is he cites Baku, Monaco and Singapore as "good races" – i.e. for racing
— Andrew Benson (@andrewbensonf1) October 27, 2016
Monaco and Singapore have many qualities, and are among my personal favourites, but great racing is not the first to spring to mind
— Andrew Benson (@andrewbensonf1) October 27, 2016
Here's the power unit situation ahead of this weekend's race. #F1 pic.twitter.com/AXtHeD0Nrl
— F1 Fanatic (@f1fanatic_co_uk) October 27, 2016
.@benjhunt does his best '#F1 driver on the driver parade' impression on the shuttle to the circuit #MexicoGP #sociable pic.twitter.com/tEKi9i7jaH
— Chris Medland (@ChrisMedlandF1) October 27, 2016
Lewis is just taking it one press conference at a time. #F1 #MexicoGP pic.twitter.com/W6OE2v0Dfa
— Alan Baldwin (@alanbaldwinf1) October 27, 2016
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Comment of the day
Following Bernie Ecclestone’s latest comments, @Robbie suggests F1 should avoid making further changes on top of those already expected for next year:
I suggest that at a minimum they should at least wait and see what the racing will be like next year with cars and tyres completely different.
Perhaps one of the reasons drivers feel the need to keep up speeds by taking license with the track edges is that they have to keep their tyres in an extremely narrow temperature window or they’ll go out of their optimum performance and durability. Perhaps with the new tires being tread wear tires rather than thermal tyres, not to mention they’ll provide more mechanical grip, drivers won’t feel the need to go over rough curbs so much.
I could easily be wrong on that, but it’s just an example, and I would wait and see what the product will be like next year before making any big decisions on things like curbing or walls or grass or gravel.
@Robbie
From the forum
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to D Winn, Nixon, Vinicius Antunes, Zahir, Doance, Eggry, Dimaka1256 and Roger Camp!
If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is via the contact form or adding to the list here.
On this day in F1
Happy birthday to Bernie Ecclestone who is 86 today.
Also on this day 15 years ago reigning world champion Michael Schumacher went up against top karting stars Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg and Vitantonio Liuzzi in the World Karting Championship:
Biggsy
28th October 2016, 0:14
I’ve been saying this about camera angles, and especially lenses, for years! They are using narrow lenses, in order to make the cars larger even in the distance, but the problem is, this kind of lens does so by effectively killing the space in the Z axis. What this means essentially is that it is neutralizing the distance between itself and the target, which in turn makes it look as if F1 car needs 20 seconds to cover 100 meters, when it is actually covering over a kilometer in distance.
Side-shots are not as bad, but they too seriously lack any dynamic.
The reason these lenses are used, is because they really are the best in avoiding and reducing the distortion, in covering decent amount of details at any distance and therefor bringing more to the viewer. The downside is that nobody relevant seems to have thought about the negative effect these lenses have on the impression the car gives when viewed through them.
I have often found myself almost rediscovering how exciting an F1 car can be, when viewing amateur shots from the grandstands. The cars look way livelier, faster and the whole impression is one of a much more dynamic experience.
jimmi cynic
28th October 2016, 4:55
+35mm
I dearly hope when the ‘new media’ people take over the tightly gripped broadcasting reins from Bernie, that they follow your advise. And also give us the option (for a small online fee) to pick our camera(s) and angles from multiple streams. They have the technology to showcase the speed of F1 technology, just not the desire.
Bernie chooses to make it look more of a fenderless Sunday drive sport so those who take an hour to wind their Rolexes can keep up. And, imo, the directors should only be allowed one wide heli shot per race. What a waste of jet fuel.
The amateur footage is always far more exciting – it conveys the brutal speed and deceleration of F1. If only the pros could produce visuals that match the speed and G-forces.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 13:24
@jimmi cynic “And also give us the option (for a small online fee) to pick our camera(s) and angles from multiple streams.”
That’s on its way, select users have already been testing it out on the official app.
https://f1broadcasting.co/2016/10/22/live-in-car-footage-set-to-take-centre-stage-in-revamped-f1-app/
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th October 2016, 5:09
@biggsy, You have indeed, it’s amazing how long it takes for constructive criticism to be recognised for it’s worth in F1, and how glacially slowly it is acted on once accepted by all and sundry.
Vincent Ouwehand (@bazzek)
28th October 2016, 9:06
The only camera that is currently in use that does provide a good view of how fast the race is, is the new one next to the drivers head. If only they would aim them a fraction up so you are not looking at tarmac only. Personally i would love to see more shots like that broadcasted during the race.
Tommy Scragend
28th October 2016, 9:26
Which is not really all that new at all. It’s where the in-car cameras were when they first appeared, before they got stuck above the roll hoop.
sean
28th October 2016, 10:08
really? i hate that camera personally, same narrow lens problem as the trackside cams, i like the old fashioned wider T bar camera more.
The shots from the nose ones were cool too!
Markp
28th October 2016, 13:12
This side camera was used in the 80’s I think it makes things look faster. It was used to showcase a Senna quali lap in Monaco and the speed was crazy although that lap was slower than Bruno Senna managed in an HRT at the same track many years later.
SatchelCharge (@satchelcharge)
28th October 2016, 14:25
Agreed!!! We need wayyyy more onboard shots during every broadcast, and not the new ones! T-Bar!
MattJ
28th October 2016, 11:05
The drivers head camera is my favourite too, for the exact same reason you said. It really seems to show off the speed of the cars. I find the overhead makes it all look too easy.
Sean Newman
28th October 2016, 10:57
Zooming and panning, particularly panning fails to convey the speed.
High mounted STATIC (no panning) cameras would be much better.
I suspect the reason they zoom right in to the car is so it can be identified because otherwise they all look the same. This leads into another problem, non-distinct colour schemes… but that’s another debate.
mhoog
28th October 2016, 14:18
I just wish they would stop showing all uninteresting celebs in the pit lane and the millions of individual people around the track. Even the worst car on it;s qualifying out lap is more interesting than that.
Also show a bit more mid and back markers in stead of mostly de top three teams would be nice.
Biggsy
28th October 2016, 16:27
Haha I couldn’t agree more about celebs pit lane shots. :)
Lewisham Milton
28th October 2016, 19:43
There’ll be loads of shots of Jenson wearing his McLaren earphones next year… bet he doesn’t complain about those!
Joe (@)
28th October 2016, 0:16
McLaren PU contractor on the report he delivered to Ron and the team.
Fletch (@fletchuk)
28th October 2016, 0:46
haha that was great
Joe (@)
28th October 2016, 0:51
Haha, I find it funny and I genuinely want to see Fernando do well!
ram
28th October 2016, 1:20
That’s terrible! And I loved it! It just kept getting funnier as the guy laughed. Internet humor at it’s finest.
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th October 2016, 5:21
;- )))) ROFL.
Robbie (@robbie)
28th October 2016, 13:22
Hilarious!
Cronies
28th October 2016, 11:54
Absolutely Brilliant…………. Hilarious …..Hahahahaha
Tristan
28th October 2016, 13:55
Oh my god! Comment of the Year!
Balue (@balue)
28th October 2016, 13:56
Haha, that’s very good @theessence
Patrick (@paeschli)
28th October 2016, 17:50
Give a cookie to the genius who made this!
For people who haven’t seen the parody of the new MacBook, this one is pretty good too :) https://youtu.be/KHZ8ek-6ccc
jamiejay (@jamiejay995)
28th October 2016, 0:27
Regarding wall or deterrents my personal suggestion is you keep the run off but have grass or gavel for a few meters first so if you track extend or cut the corner you are still penalized by the few meters of gravel or grass but after that you have the large run off area. if you dip a wheel on the grass you spin but if you run well wide and to fast you can still slow yourself down on the tarmac.
Strontium (@strontium)
28th October 2016, 8:44
I’ve always thought the same. Just a strip of grass would do it
SaraJ (@sjzelli)
28th October 2016, 0:29
Sure Alonso… a really really really slow leak…
JackySteeg (@jackysteeg)
28th October 2016, 1:30
An interesting point Button raises. I wonder if F1 would benefit from some more NASCAR-style stationary cameras on the straights at trackside (like this). They certainly do a good job of capturing the speed of a breed of cars that by their nature look clunky and slow.
Having said that, I feel that this is a minor nitpick compared to the very real problems F1 is facing…
Phylyp (@phylyp)
28th October 2016, 2:22
@jackysteeg – Interesting idea. I think right now the only stationary cameras on an F1 track are the ones embedded in some kerbs that show the cars running over it. While dramatic, it doesn’t expose the speed as much as the video you linked to.
PaulK (@paulk)
28th October 2016, 5:15
There were a camera like this in Baku (last corner I believe). It gave fantastic shots. Was used twice during the whole race showing a single car each time.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
28th October 2016, 5:59
@paulk – Ha ha ha 😂
That’s the state of F1 today, perfectly summed up – tons of potential, but very little actualization.
Craig Wilde (@wildfire15)
28th October 2016, 9:56
There was a similar camera used in the Formula E last season at the Buenos Aires ePrix (I think), sat on the second part of a chicane so you could see the drivers fighting the cars through it.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
28th October 2016, 6:05
@jackysteeg exactly like that yes!
Dmitry (@albedo)
28th October 2016, 3:12
>Lap time predictions supplied anonymously by the teams indicate performance gains of five seconds per lap for next year compared to a lap of the Circuit de Catalunya in 2015, but another putting the increase as high as nine seconds
I already had a COTD maybe half a year ago when I said that nobody can really imagine how fast the cars will be in 2017. And they are going to get even faster in 2018 when the teams will gather all the data from the real testing, find new opportunities/gray zones, learn to exploit the regulations better.
These rumours just assured me that we’ll have another knee-jerk change of rules maybe as soon as 2018/19 in a desperate attempt to make the cars slower again. If something REALLY BAD happens we might have the rules changed right in the middle of a season, just like in 1994.
grooved tires…?
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
28th October 2016, 11:07
@albedo Winter truck tyres.
Jerejj
28th October 2016, 11:43
@albedo 2015 pole time was 1:24.681, so a 5-second drop from that: 1:19s, and a 9-second drop: 1:16s, which would be very close to the pre-2007 layout times. It will be interesting to see next year during pre-season testing and the Spanish GP weekend how much quicker they will actually be.
Jerejj
28th October 2016, 14:56
‘1:15s’
Ian Stephens (@ians)
29th October 2016, 17:09
I think those 4-6 sec/lap improvement predictions supplied to Pirelli were for the start of the season. You can add the in-season improvements once the new regulations are track-tested – usually another 3-5 sec/lap from the big teams in the first season of new regulations. Since nearly all the improvements are going to be in the corners with almost none on the straights we can expect spectacular cornering speeds – much higher than we have seen in previous seasons.
Even Pirelli do not know how this will affect tyres because their specification for the mule cars used to test the tyres has been much lower. This brings back memories of the 2013 season when we were plagued with blowouts after inadequate testing.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 3:36
F1 could easily GPS track the cars to automatically determine when they leave the track limits and consequently punish them without affecting safety. The question then would be what penalty to apply. I think live time penalties should be looked at, some way of determining in a fool-proof manner if a driver has slowed on track significantly to apply a time penalty without requiring a pit stop.
I’m still a fan of the physical solution such as gravel or wall, but there is simply no way no to compromise that with safety. How far do you go? It seems to be the question F1 is struggling with constantly.
Kudos to the comment of the day, I agree there should be no great knee-jerk reaction, but it needs to be tackled at some point and meanwhile the current rules consistently need to be applied (unlike at COTA). It’s good to see the issue being brought up regardless.
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th October 2016, 5:25
Totally agree, I suggest a drive-through or 30 seconds if the driver wrongly disputes culpability.
Robbie (@robbie)
28th October 2016, 12:27
@keithcollantine Thanks for the CotD mention.
I’ve suggested a wait and see approach for next year but in general I’m not for walls, nor a tennis style eye on each line…these just are too cut and dry for my liking…too ‘anti-speed’ or ‘anti-racing’ if you will. These cars carry great momentum and I don’t like the thought of drivers having to ‘tip-toe’ the cars around at a time when they are also going for a more spectacular product on the track.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 14:04
Well if that’s the case (which is fair enough too if they want to take the product that way) then the rules should be built around that way of thinking. Not this situation of having the rules there, but choosing on a whim when or when not to follow them.
Gunner22
28th October 2016, 13:36
Whenever track limit discussions happen I always think about a Blancpain GT race I watched a few years ago. The run off areas had a highly abrasive paint or coating on it where the car would still have the room to recover, however the tires would be adversely degraded when loads were applied to them. The second place car at the time was catching the leader, but overdrove a corner and hurt his tires to the point he no longer could match the leaders pace and actually had to fight off the third place car at the end of the race. If the driver had to use the areas for escape from an incident it seemed to be ok, but if the driver either lost control or used the area for further track gain the tires would suffer. Either slower lap times or a pit stop would result.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 15:00
Hmmm that’s a good idea! I’m imagining some kind of coarse sandpaper-like surface? An interesting concept I’ve not seen brought up much at all. Especially in an era where tyres will be pushed harder like we will supposedly have.
Neil (@neilosjames)
28th October 2016, 14:19
GPS is nowhere near accurate enough, but the Hungary sensors would be perfect for the purpose you describe.
Although, I’m still more on the side of ‘real’ deterrents than using time penalties and the like. I still believe time-losing run-off could be added at 90% of the corners F1 uses with no compromise to safety.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 14:31
High end GPS could be accurate enough (it gets down to centimeters, not what’s on our smart phones), and especially combined with force and acceleration data. You can even get extremely accurate position information just from these sensors alone – I’ve played with such data in MoTeC and it’s amazingly accurate even without the GPS.
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th October 2016, 4:28
I totally agree with RIC on the walls issue, as I wrote more fully on the “Bernie wants……” article.
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th October 2016, 4:40
Lewis Hamilton: ” We’ll start the auction with this late model I-Phone, bound to be a classic one day and still performs well enough for daily use, Who’ll start the bidding, shall we say $200,,,,,,,$150 then.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 8:10
Haha! Good one, what is going on there?
Hollidog
28th October 2016, 8:48
Journalists are using their phones as dictaphones
Tommy Scragend
28th October 2016, 9:29
The phones & dictaphones all belong to the journalists, so they can record whatever pearls of wisdom Hamilton comes out with.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
28th October 2016, 11:12
21st century microphones…
Tristan
28th October 2016, 11:19
Bit silly, some of them are so far away. You’d be better off holding it to the speakers his mic is plugged in to…
petebaldwin (@)
28th October 2016, 12:20
Backup phones in case his battery dies and he loses access to Instagram.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 14:08
Haha, good one.
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th October 2016, 4:44
I don’t read German, but would it by any chance be McL. predicting a 9 second improvement over 2015 times ?
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
28th October 2016, 6:21
I’d like to believe that it’s the seemingly endless run-off either side of the track which makes the cars look slow, instead of camera angles. I think that they still look incredibly quick on street circuits.
Tristan
28th October 2016, 11:14
I think they’re one and the same? You don’t have to / can’t get the camera’s so far away from the track on a street circuit?
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
28th October 2016, 12:40
I’m not sure. Indycars travel a lot slower on road courses but their onboards and regular TV shots look so much quicker than F1’s. They tend to have grass or gravel on the exits of corners.
Mark Hitchcock
28th October 2016, 7:06
Regarding camera angles, there was a great one at COTA that was looking over the crowd down the esses. Used once in qualy I think. It gave a great impression of the speed at which the cars change direction because it didn’t pan with them as tthey went through the corners.
WheelToWheel (@lolzerbob)
28th October 2016, 8:30
I though it would be interesting to share Keith’s eurosport rankings table and see if it correlates to the end of season driver rankings
1 Daniel Ricciardo 12 25 25 1 25 18 2 10 2 15 25 18 12 25 25 15 0 18 0 0 0 273
2 Lewis Hamilton 15 4 8 15 0 10 15 0 25 18 18 15 15 10 0 18 2 12 0 0 0 200
3 Max Verstappen 2 12 18 8 18 0 10 8 12 25 10 10 0 1 6 25 25 0 0 0 0 190
4 Nico Rosberg 10 15 15 18 0 0 0 25 0 0 6 2 10 18 18 12 15 0 0 0 0 164
5 Fernando Alonso 6 0 4 12 4 25 4 6 0 8 12 0 25 6 15 10 0 25 0 0 0 162
6 Sebastian Vettel 18 0 2 2 8 4 18 15 10 0 15 0 0 15 8 0 8 8 0 0 0 131
7 Valtteri Bottas 0 0 0 10 10 0 25 12 1 0 4 1 8 12 0 8 6 0 0 0 0 97
8 Kimi Raikkonen 4 10 12 0 6 0 0 0 0 10 0 4 4 8 10 4 12 10 0 0 0 94
9 Nico Hulkenberg 8 0 0 0 0 15 6 0 0 12 1 12 18 0 0 0 10 0 0 0 0 82
10 Jenson Button 0 0 0 0 12 6 0 0 18 2 0 25 2 2 0 6 0 6 0 0 0 79
11 Romain Grosjean 25 18 0 6 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 8 0 4 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 70
12 Carlos Sainz Jnr 0 0 0 0 15 8 12 0 8 4 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 0 0 0 70
13 Sergio Perez 0 0 0 0 2 12 1 18 0 1 0 0 6 0 1 1 18 0 0 0 0 60
14 Kevin Magnussen 0 2 0 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 39
15 Pascal Wehrlein 0 6 0 0 0 0 8 0 15 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 32
16 Felipe Massa 1 0 6 4 0 1 0 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 24
17 Daniil Kvyat 0 1 10 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 20
18 Esteban Gutierrez 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
19 Stoffel Vandoorne 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8
20 Felipe Nasr 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6
21 Jolyon Palmer 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 5
22 Marcus Ericsson 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2
23 Esteban Ocon 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
24 Rio Haryanto 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
28th October 2016, 13:14
@lolzerbob I’m impressed you found time to put that all together! Of course I’ll be looking back on my notes on each driver from each race but I definitely won’t be using a points system to aggregate them. Also do keep in mind those rankings are written 24 hours after the race and it’s not uncommon that facts come to light after then which can alter the view of how each driver performed.
Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
28th October 2016, 8:35
Button has a good point. It is not easy to comprehend the performance of these cars, without putting them in the right perspective. The same goes for braking. Amateur footage of the first chicane in monza is more exciting to watch than the footage we get on TV.
I think there is a quick fix to add a little more perspective. They should put an onboard camera on the medical car so the viewers can see the sheer difference in acceleration between an F1 car and a very fast roadcar.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 12:03
@wickedwicktheweird “They should put an onboard camera on the medical car”
There are already in-car cameras on both the Medical & Safety cars. There used not only during the Thursday systems test (Often referred to as the safety car race) but also at times during the races themselves if the SC comes out.
Chris (@tophercheese21)
28th October 2016, 9:36
I think FOM really should look into placing cameras in locations that will make the cars look faster and more violent.
It’s funny, if it’s done well, even a boring race would appear to be exciting.
Scott Bailey (@sbailey555)
28th October 2016, 10:35
Max, say mofo more, people will start thinking you are funny.
Lewis should have accidently spilled that water glass all over the table. I mean really, who sticks their phone down NEXT to someones glass of water. Not the biggest fan but give the guy a bit of room!
Unicron (@unicron2002)
28th October 2016, 10:36
I completely agree with everyone’s comments here about camera angle, and I’d also add that the in-car cameras need improving as well. One positive from this year though is the awesome camera to the side and just behind the driver’s helmets. I ADORE this view, it takes me back to the Senna and Mansell day where it feels like you are perched just above the driver’s shoulder and holding on for dear life.
Although… did anyone see the amazing BBC documentary about Sir Chris Hoy racing at Le Mans? The in car camera there showed just how ferocious and violent it is inside the cockpit. Brutal. If that could be recreated on F1 cars I’d be very happy indeed.
Tanel
28th October 2016, 10:55
After every weekend, Verstappen’s arrogance just grows and grows.
Martijn (@)
28th October 2016, 11:42
I briefly spoke to him yesterday and think he’s ok, no worries. Might come across like that in the media but thats just filters. Media has been craving for any personality they could find..
Martijn (@)
28th October 2016, 11:37
Look at the 2016 F1 Engine Components use chart… Mercedes clearly being a well performing supplier for their client teams (all are at the bottom of the chart). And it pretty much sums up Hamilton’s season.
Chip McDonald
28th October 2016, 12:20
Perhaps like Biggsy, I’ve been campaigning for a camera revamp for years and years.
Long shots foreshortening distance – narrow lenses are bad news in this case. Deep zooms of the cars that appear to be motionless for many seconds are pointless. There are a lot more problems, though.
1) Lack of contextural foreground information. The biggest problem of the Tilke tracks are the generic presentations sans recognizable object that allow comparison for a sense of speed. You need people in the foreground. Or a recognizable building; I think this has a lot to do with Monaco being great to watch. Or trees, one of the great things about the old Hockenheim straight, or sometimes Monza when they frame the shot in certain ways.
The best shot I’ve seen recently is the one over the crowd at Austin pointed down the esses, great sense of speed. But there are a lot of things I’ve never seen portrayed on television. One that comes to mind is seeing the 1st turn braking zone at Indianapolis from Stand 6, at a distance, and being able to see the drastic change in speed. One of the more interesting sights because with the foreground of distance giving scale, it visually informs you of how strange their braking capability is. You can’t see this zoomed in or with a tight shot.
2) Pans, panning zooms: mid depth shots. They’ve toned this down recently I think. They’ll pull out of a zoom as the car comes to a corner and pan. Again, with the tight shot there is no context for speed. With the zoom changing, that makes it worse.
3) Fear of wide angle lenses. Or at least human-view point lenses. This, combined with a fear of longer duration shots looking 45 degrees down track. They’re doing more of the Indy style “blur fly by”, which works, but lacks foreground info. A common experience live at a racetrack is watching a car slowly approach your location at high speed, and THEN the blur as it passes by. It’s the temporal context: non-zoom view of the distance, combined with the closing object passing as a blur. Chopping that into two shots – a deep zoom, then a cut to a closeup flyby – negates the sense of distance crossed at speed.
4) “Arty” angles. Zoomed closeups of the car. Wacky steep angles in sudden closeups. Sometimes these shots work at Monaco and Singapore BECAUSE they’re Monaco and Singapore – there is context, but at Tilkedromes it’s just disorienting. Again, human perspective, more “I’m standing at the side of the track”, not “I’m floating 25 feet over the corner”.
These are the result, I think, of historic habits in shooting field sports. The idea that you’ve got to have all of the action in a wide shot because “that only makes sense, right?”. I think they’re getting braver with long shots not being zoomed as much/more open, but ultimately I think they need to rethink the whole thing. Get George Lucas’ advice, he’s always milling about, or blatantly copy some of the long shots from Frankenheimer’s film.
Human perspective, less zooming and panning.
/ $.10
Maciek (@maciek)
28th October 2016, 12:22
…and to add to Button’s point, with which I wholeheartedly agree, F1 camera angles also neutralize elevation changes – I remember watching an NBC broadcast from Monaco years ago where they must have had their own cameras, in totally different places to the regular shots we see, and that was the first time I realized just how sharply the cars climb and descend there – changed my whole view of the demands of that track. So yeah just having someone with a fresh eye rework how F1 is broadcast could do a lot. Goes without saying, the same applies to track design…
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 12:27
As i’ve said before the biggest problem with the coverage now in terms of camera angles/panning etc.. is that there’s too much meddling from above.
Many of the people at F1 communications now (The tv production arm of FOM) are the same people that were producing the coverage during the f1 digital+ days. The difference is that back then they were allowed to do things as they wanted & go after the very best trackside camera angles, panning the cameras in the best way to get the speed/action & direct the race to the best of the directors ability to follow the action.
Now as the world feed broadcaster there having to take/been told to take the commercial deals into consideration (As the old local host broadcasters used to). Pirelli, Rolex, Heineken etc.. buy the trackside advertising & are paying to get there brand on TV & as such the TV crew are told by the commercial people at FOM to ensure these brands get the coverage there paying for & so camera angles are placed in order to do that & the camera operators are told to pan the cameras in a way to get all those advertisements in shot for as long & as often as possible.
here’s some f1 digital+ laps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vaxPG-cMts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOjUwkCJTxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwS0aCvxv5k
All that been said I gather that there has recently been a shift back towards the f1 digital+ way of thinking (you started to see that late last year with the mid-field guys getting more coverage if in a close battle) & that going into next year there looking at using more cameras & using a wider variety of angles to try & fulfill the commercial agreements while also having shots to get more spectacular shots & try & bring out the speed so things should be improving.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 12:45
Actually just a point on the in-car shots.
Something thats changed this year is that the cameras are no longer modular. In the past the t-cam on the roll-bar was made up of 3 parts. The central base/communication section & then the forward/rearward facing cameras on either side. The camera’s on either side were the same camera pods/mounts as the cameras that were also placed on the side/nose of the cars & all of the cameras were setup the same (Wide lens, Angled downwards for the t-cam location) as they were all interchangeable.
This year with the move to HD cameras the t-cam is now 1 single unit & this has allowed the cameras that are placed on the side/nose to be specifically setup for that location. Thats why were seeing narrower angle lenses been used in those locations & them been angled higher rather than all looking downwards as you saw in the past.
Here is a shot of the old t-cam, you can see the 3 distinct parts & how the camera pods on either side cam be removed.
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/championship/inside-f1/rules-regs/Television_cameras_and_timing_transponders/_jcr_content/image16x9.img.1024.medium.jpg
and here is a shot of the new t-cam housing for this year which as you see is 1 complete unit.
http://i66.tinypic.com/154iqrs.jpg
x303 (@x303)
29th October 2016, 16:52
Thanks @gt-racer for all these insightful details.
sm
28th October 2016, 12:43
The current cameras need more perspective. And perhaps f1 could take a leaf out of indycar’s book and introduce helmet cans for all drivers. It isn’t necessary for them to substitute helmet cans for the normal on boards, but it would be nice once in a while
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 13:01
Indycar doesn’t use helmet cameras, Not for live broadcast anyway. They mount a GoPro on a driver’s helmet for a few laps in 1st practice to record some laps for Youtube but thats it.
http://f1weekends.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Visor_cam_mount_F1Weekends.jpg
F1 was using live broadcast helmet mounted cameras fairly regularly from 2011-2015.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3tfm9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh5gLAWl8QI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZrmgeNXTR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3I8ZxbiT4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTS6a83YwWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9A4vNwzEJ8
The issue with those kinds of cameras is that you need permission from the team & driver to run them as there’s some extra wiring, a tiny bit of extra weight & also some aero effect. There are also safety regulations which cameras have to adhere to & it has to be shown that they cannot become detached which can be tricky.
The sort of visor-cam that you used to see champcar mount inside the helmets are not allowed anymore due to current helmet safety requirements. Your not allowed to have anything placed inside the helmet that may affect the effectiveness of the internal padding or pose a risk to the driver should it become loose.
Doing something for a few laps in practice is fine which is why you can see Indycar use a GoPro for a few laps without much issue. However a broadcast camera with the extra cables that is going to be mounted for long periods over a weekend or even just a race is a different matter with more stringent safety & driver/team consideration.
N
28th October 2016, 13:43
I think he meant Champ Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta8WL7T4aro
Best camera view of any motorsport, period, and it was done years ago.
N
28th October 2016, 13:46
Whoops, you mentioned ChampCar :] It’s a shame they don’t use these anymore but you can understand the safety issue with it.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 15:39
Something i forgot to mention is that we were actually testing a similar visor-camera in 2002. Did some test’s with BAR & Jaguar but ultimately nobody was willing to actually run with it during a race weekend.
The footage we got from the test’s is still sitting somewhere in the Biggin Hill archive i’d have though.
N
28th October 2016, 18:37
That would be awesome to see
StefMeister (@stefmeister)
28th October 2016, 20:32
@gt-racer Would this happen to be it?
https://vid.me/BiZu
Was shown during a pre-race segment on BAR on the F1 Digital+ channel.
Balue (@balue)
28th October 2016, 14:06
I wonder what’s at the root of the rumors about Dennis being forced out of his position. Could it be about a conflict with Honda about supplying other teams which I know Dennis is set against but Honda already preparing for?
Or maybe Honda and a lot of staff have told the Bahrainis that they miss Whitmarsh generally and find it no fun under Dennis? Remember Fallows changed his mind about moving from Red Bull when he heard Dennis had replaced Whitmarsh, and maybe others feel the same way?
Michael Brown (@)
28th October 2016, 14:31
The camera angles tend to frame the shot with the advertisements in the picture. This was very apparent with the Heineken ads in Canada this year.
Gabriel (@rethla)
28th October 2016, 14:41
The reason it looks slow is because all the fast parts are done in convoys with 2sec between each car, no camera effects will change that.
Steven Robertson (@emu55)
28th October 2016, 15:03
Would be interesting to know who pays for the cameras and crews at a Grand Prix. Bernie probably dumps all costs and risks on the track owners, hence lack of innovation. I recall hearing on commentary before that a local director chooses the shots broadcast.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
28th October 2016, 15:35
@emu55 If I remember correctly it is a team of the FIA itself.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
28th October 2016, 18:51
@emu55 @xtwl The coverage for every race apart from Monaco is produced by FOM using FOM’s own equipment.
The local host broadcasters used to provide coverage but FOM started taking over in 2004 using the old F1 digital+ crew & equipment.
AceAce
28th October 2016, 21:03
Yeah noticed that on vettels car in baku, the camera mounted upper left side of cockpit is horrible, makes the car look as if its going about 40kph.