Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Silverstone, 2017

Mercedes’ qualifying pace a “game-changer” – Vettel

F1 Fanatic Round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

In the round-up: Sebastian Vettel believes Mercedes have made a significant step forward with their qualifying pace recently.

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Comment of the day

Is it time for Red Bull to give up on Daniil Kvyat?

Penalty points aside, Kyvat has been pretty poor this season. Ever since he got dumped from the senior team, he’s had his wind gassed out of him. He’s lost the plot.

Come Dr Marko, give Gasly as go. It can’t be much worse… could it?
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)

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69 comments on “Mercedes’ qualifying pace a “game-changer” – Vettel”

  1. For the sake of the sport I hope that the Vettel to Mercedes in 2018 rumors are true.

    Mercedes are just too good in this era, nobody is going to beat them, and Bottas is not good enough to properly challenge Hamilton for the WDC.

    1. Bottas is only 22 points behind Hamilton and he had a DNF in Spain which realistically cost him 15 points. He’s outperformed Hamilton on sheer merit in his 2 wins and he’s run him close in the other races. After all the bluster of Hamilton’s dad saying Hamilton ends careers, Bottas is adjusting to the team better than most expected and I think he’s giving Hamilton more of a fight than Rosberg ever did. 2014 and 2016 took strings of bad luck for Hamilton for Rosberg to creep away. Bottas has just kept close on merit.

      He won’t be beating Hamilton this year, but by next year when he’s bedded into the team, and he’s in a car that wasn’t designed for two other drivers I think that we will have a more representative picture of how close Bottas can fight Hamilton.

      1. But yet you conveniently ignore all Hamilton’s issues and particularly what happened in Baku?. Since Monaco, Hamilton has taken 3 poles and 2 wins in 4 races and it should’ve been 3 wins, if not 4.

        Yes Bottas is performing well, but as we’ve all seen, when there’s no issues with the car, more often than not Lewis comes out ahead.

        1. Agreed – but Hamilton is likely somewhere near his peak, whereas Bottas is clearly still improving.
          Assuming they are both at mercy next season, it will be interesting.

          1. At Merc. Wretched autocorrect !

      2. +1

        I think Bottas has definitely proved the doubters wrong. He’s also doing exactly what Mercedes needed in terms of the constructors points and it’s largely because of him they have such a healthy lead.

        Yesterday’s drive after stuffing up his qualy run was absolutely spot on. I suspect that if he’d been able to start where he qualified initially, he may well have been the only driver to pressure Hamilton.

        I’m really looking forward to the second half of the season, he’s still close enough on points to the leaders and has the sort of determination that may just make the WDC a close 3 way fight by the end.

        Definitely not a number 2 driver and not even remotely intimidated by his team mate.

        1. @dbradock @philipgb
          “it’s largely because of him they have such a healthy lead.” It’s not. Mostly its because of the car Mercedes built, largely down to the engine and better performing driver, Hamilton. Bottas’ contribution to constructor’s championship is at most the 3rd most significant.
          “I suspect that if he’d been able to start where he qualified initially, he may well have been the only driver to pressure Hamilton.” If you’re going to speculate, you need to include other factors. Firstly, Ham on slower tires was still faster than Bottas on faster and fresher tires, if you go by fastest lap. You could tell Ham was barely pushing whereas Bottas gave his all. I doubt there would be any pressuring. Secondly, if Bot didn’t have his penalty then Max would be even further behind and would not have been in front of Vettel. Vettel would then not need an undercut to do this aggressive strategy that wore out his rubber. Not to mention he was help up severely by Max.

          So far I have not seen Bottas beat Hamilton when Ham was on form, which is quite often. Bottas on the other hand was on form many times and was no match for Ham. I don’t want to say he’s not doing well, but this is top of the top, and he’s just not Ham, Vet, Alo kind of good to mix it up at the front. Of course he can win the championship, like Ros did last year. With the car he has it could take some random mechanical failures and few headrests to misbehave and it might be enough.

        2. All it has proved is that the machine is a too dominant factor in this era. Drivers are irrelevant. Clearly the top prio for FOM/Liberty to turn this around.

      3. Bottas is fairly decent, about same as Nico Rosberg was 5 years ago. Only much more likable.

        Lewis is on a different level..

        If he gets anything close to reliable fastest car and does not suffer from being Lewis he will win easilly.

      4. Bottas is much more likable than Rosberg ever was and he is a good driver too but something in me would prefer to see a tried and tested world champion in the 2nd mercedes.

        Hamilton is breaking record left and right and he wont be racing for too much longer, I would like to see him in a fight against another great driver to see if he really is the stuff of legend that he is currently being compared to.

        That could mean either vettle or alonso, if he could beat either of them in the same car then that should put the issue to bed once and for all.

    2. The ideal outcome for me is Vettel wins the WDC this year, goes to Mercedes, and in response Hamilton ends up at Ferrari. Both drivers would be trying to win three WDC titles with three different teams.

      I still don’t buy into the fact that everything is locked down with the Red Bull teams for next year. I predict Sainz will be off to Renault ASAP, but from there it could go a few ways. Gasly could come into the mix with Toro Rosso, but if Verstappen signs with Ferrari I can see Red Bull dropping him down to Toro Rosso for the remainder of the season, leaving a free seat at Red Bull for 10 races. It seems inevitable to Vettel will be in a Mercedes eventually, and with Kimis career coming to an end that leaves a rather empty cupboard regarding Ferraris driver stocks. Given that, and despite Horners comments, I wouldnt be surprised if Ferrari buy Verstappens contract out for next year onwards.

      So if Sainz ends up at Renault, why have they been testing Kubica, and why was he in the Red Bull simulator recently?

      1. @kingshark @bamboo That all seems a bit much for 2018. Bottas and Hamilton will both be at Mercedes, I think. Bottas, as @philipgb said, has done enough to prove he can take the challenge next year, and I doubt Hamilton will move because he is a fighter who will rise to a challenge and he still seems happy at Mercedes. If Vettel wins the championship this year I don’t see a reason why he’d want to leave for the team he beat, especially as he seems very happy at Ferrari currently.

        Verstappen is still too young to fit into Ferrari’s vision of experienced drivers, and I think Ferrari would have no interest in acquiring him when they have a number one (either Hamilton or Vettel in the scenario described). And I also don’t think Red Bull will let Verstappen go at any cost, until the contract is out, given just how good he is, and how much they’ve done to get him where he is. If Ferrari do decide to replace Raikkonen, I’d imagine Perez, Grosjean, or one of those drivers would fit in there perfectly. One thing is for certain, there are probably 16 current drivers who would jump at the chance of that seat, so I don’t think they have any empty cupboards. That said, I do expect they’ll want Giovinazzi to have a seat next year so that will be interesting to see. Without Sauber they only have Haas as a ‘B-team’, so to speak, so Grosjean to Ferrari and Giovinazzi to Haas is the most logical way I can think of. I still dream of Alonso being back in red, knowing there’s more chance of Christmas being in July.

        I think Sainz will still be at Toro Rosso. I know Red Bull racing / Toro Rosso’s PR department is very weak, but I doubt they’d openly confirm him for next year if they don’t plan to actually have him drive. I’m not sure how seriously to take the Kubica rumours but if they’re true that’s a space that won’t need filling by Sainz. Kubica definitely wouldn’t go to Red Bull, if that’s what you’re implying.

        Kvyat may well go next year, although it’s a tough one. I still get the feeling they’re keeping him because he’s got more to give than we are currently seeing. I have no idea how ready Gasly is to be in F1 so I can’t comment on that.

        Another man who deserves to be back in F1, whose name I’m yet to hear, is Jean Eric Vergne.

        1. Ferrari want Vettel to stay, he is happy and likes working with Raikkonen. Raikkonen is in turn a safe pair of hands and someone who helps the team develop the car and sell merchandise.

          In light of those reasons, why someone would choose Grosjean instead of retaining Raikkonen is bafflng, frankly.

        2. As the rumours of Max leaving is coming from the corner of Sainz (not himself but the support group) as the Dutch Media tracks this rumours after Max told them there isn’t an move to Ferrari coming next year. he would be only interested in Mercedes but that would be after 2019.

          Sainz should wait as for 2019 seats are going be free.

        3. @strontium, good piece of speculation! Personally I doubt Ferrari would take Grosjean, they do need to move on from Raikonnen as unless he can start to deliver each week as he did at Silverstone Ferrari have no hope of a WCC, especially as the Red Bull should strengthen again in 2018 with Renault’s latest PU.

          I do think Kvyat is at the last chance saloon again, if he makes anymore bad errors in the second half of the season Gasly must be in contention for the seat. However Gasly has not had the best of starts in Superformula after four races, by comparison in 2016 Vandoorne managed to win two races and a third place podium from nine starts.

        4. Vergne is easilly better than 5-6 current drivers, I would not be to shocked if they bring him in instead of Kvyat.

          Also Palmer is going soon, seems to be the common wisdom by now, ..

          So next year should be interesting.

          Never underestimate how much Kimi can improve when he is given a last warning. Look at him this weekend.

          1. F Truth (@offdutyrockstar)
            17th July 2017, 15:48

            +1 JEV deserves to be on the grid more than quite a few who are.

          2. Vergne was very close to Ricciardo during their two years at STR. Imho is better than Stroll, Palmer, Ericsson, Kvyat, Magnussen, Grosjean, Wehrlein and Vandoorne (although the latter two still have upside ofcourse)

        5. I think this “Lewis wants to drive for Ferrari” is an urban myth, let it go guys, Lewis is happy at Mercedes and they want him there, why change something that’s working? They have a great car and a great driver who happens to be the most popular guy out there attracting tons of media exposure why would any executive destroy such a winning combination?

          1. Somehow I don’t really see Hamilton as a Ferrari kind of driver…. I do see him ending his career at McLaren to complete the circle (but McLaren has to get more competative first)

        6. I really don”t understand the hype around Kubica, there are plenty of drivers who have come and gone that are better, JEV was a decent driver and capable of so much more than he ever got the chance to do.

    3. Not sure why there are rumours of SV to Mercedes and LH to Ferrari for next year. They are both under contract with their current teams. LH is currently in the WCC car which is what it takes to win the WDC. Why would he break his contract to go to a less than WCC winning car? Similarly SV and his Ferrari are knocking on the door with definite potential to be a threat. SV, at least for 2018, probably would stand a better chance at a resurgent Ferrari than being the newbie at Mercedes where LH is engrained. Since both drivers are under contract with their current teams and if nothing else LH would presumably not want to budge, I don’t see anything to any rumours of a driver swap whatsoever.

      I’m curious to know why FA to Mercedes is such a no go to some? Personally I think the main movement in drivers for next year will be FA to Mercedes, VB back to Williams with FM retiring, and KR possibly being replaced at Ferrari.

      1. @robbie I think a lot of it comes down to Vettels contract being up at the end of this year. In the ideal world for Vettel he signs on for 1 more year and then head to Mercedes at the end of Hamiltons contract, but a 1 year deal is something Ferrari will likely not allow. It does put Ferrari in a pickle of a situation as my guess is Mercedes would sign Vettel tomorrow if they could, which would leave Ferrari without a senior driver in 2018. The issue with that however is I don’t think Hamilton would take too kindly to Vettel as his teammate and Mercedes know it. I can see a driver swap between Mercedes and Ferrari happening as a result of this, given this is the outcome that keeps most parties happy.

        As much as Lewis leaving Mercedes when hes got the WCC car does sound strange, what does he have to prove by staying? As much as it is achievable to win another title next year with them, I can see the appeal of going to Ferrari and trying to win three WDC with three different teams as huge – its a feat for the F1 geeks and those with a huge appreciation for the sports history, achieved only by one driver (Fangio).

        Alonso to Mercedes? I’ve been a huge supporter of that for a while now, and McLaren will be kicking themselves they didn’t use FA as a bargaining chip to get Mercedes engines over the last winter. As great as FA is, and as much as he can get further up the grid than most drivers in any car, a Mercedes engine will get that car further up the grid. That said, will it happen? I want it to happen, but I doubt it will. Any pairing would be with another $30m+ salary driver, unless he was willing to take a pay cut. Sadly, if Vettel was Spanish, and Alonso was German I would say it would be a near certainty that Alonso would be driving for Mercedes. In light of who Mercedes is, where they are from, what they represent and their history of drivers (a lot of Germans) a four time German WDC is their main target right now.

        1. @bamboo Well for one thing I doubt that TW and the conglomerate that is Mercedes are going to be dictated by LH as to who their driver lineup will be. LH doesn’t have a say. If they were to ask him, of course they know he is always going to want a non-WDC winner as a teammate to make his own life easier. TW and Mercedes are ones to want the best two possible drivers they can get, though. But if you insist that LH has a say and would not accept SV as a teammate, then you can forget this notion of SV to Mercedes as LH is not likely to leave where he has been winning only to give that seat to SV. Or…they take SV as LH doesn’t have a say. But would SV want to go to where LH is engrained?

          I’m not convinced Mercedes needs a German driver every year. I’m certainly not convinced they will let FA peter out to nothingness without a solid ride for his remaining small number of years in F1.

          Of course anything can happen, but I still see FA going to Mercedes so that they are ensured of having at least one WDC on the team if LH doesn’t want to stay after 2018. It also prevents FA from going elsewhere. Some have pointed out he’s got nowhere else to go, which is one of the reasons why I see TW picking FA up. If you’re FA you’re really sitting there with one option…Mercedes. He’s not going to make salary on obstacle. And as to the same issue as SV…going to Mercedes where LH is engrained? FA has less choice than SV on that. SV can stay put. FA would happily take a much better seat even if against engrained LH. And perhaps only for one season anyway, once LH’s contract is up.

      2. F Truth (@offdutyrockstar)
        17th July 2017, 15:51

        You’re forgetting that Vettel would never go there unless Hamilton was gone. Vettel likes to be top dog, hence his reported condition that Raikonnen be retained and hence why he ran from Red Bull when Ricciardo spanked him in ’14.

  2. It’s strange that both Ferrari’s had the same failure around the same time, I think that has to suggest an attribute unique to their car.

    Given pressure and camber are tightly restricted then Ferrari aren’t to blame as they have used the tyres in a legal manner, and they were still getting the expected life out of them, but either their wheel rim or more likely some aspect of their suspension puts stress on that front left like no other teams does. It’s also probably not a coincidence it was Silverstone again with spontaneous tyre fails like 4 years ago.

    The thing I worry about now is a rash change in the rules such as tyre pressure and suspension geometry changes to go ultra conservative. That will wind up randomly playing into one teams hands, in 2013 it saw Red Bull steam away from the rest of the pack, I wonder who will benefit this time?

    1. @philipgb it’s bizarre though, because the two failures were different types of failure. Also, there’s a question of whether or not Verstappen pitted because there was some bad telemetry coming through.

    2. With the failures being different and largely restricted to 1 team (with different tyre failures on each car), I doubt there’ll be any knee jerk FIA decisions.

    3. @philipgb

      It’s also probably not a coincidence it was Silverstone again with spontaneous tyre fails like 4 years ago.

      The circumstances couldn’t be more different…

      We’re comparing late-race wear & tear on a circuit that punishes the front left tyre with badly manufactured directional tyres being under-inflated and run incorrectly (backwards) by teams seeking a performance advantage.

    4. Probably camber.

      1. I agree. If you lock at the shot of Vettel’s car right after his deflation, the right front has a grove near the inside shoulder that looks like someone took a circular saw to it. Those front tires were wrecked, and my hunch is that they were not being used according to spec. Tires should never fail structurally from hard use—they would just lose performance and go way over the “cliff” before they fell apart. Worst case, you lose all of the rubber and you are riding on the internal kevlar material, which is plenty strong. I think we will find that Ferrari was getting a little aggressive with pressures and/or camber.

        1. Camber limits are defined by Pirelli and would be subject to inspection. Unless Ferrari has some clever suspension gubbins that can exceed those limits on the track but avoid showing up under inspection I don’t see how.

          Of course as a wild hypothesis it’s entirely possible they do have something like that.

  3. Accidents aside, Kvyat has not had a reliable car.
    This last incident was unfortunate’ because he couldn’t do much after Sainz forced him wide.
    I also believe the driver situation in STR is toxic.
    Sainz has provoked many of their coming together.

    1. The “driver” situation might be a bit misleading. Its the whole Sainz group, fully of the belief and expectation that Carlos should be in a top team.

      My understanding is it was very hostile when it was Verstappen/Sainz, which was an assisting factor in Maxs promotion, and now it has reared its ugly head again, as there are whispers there might be a Red Bull seat going soon.

    2. Sainz didn’t force him wide. Kvyat tried to overtake on the outside (which is the dirtier part of the track), went too fast and couldn’t keep the car in the track. After that, he loses the rear and countersteers into Sainz.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIvGrAZVN9g

      Go to 2:05 and tell me that Sainz pushed Kvyat wide.

      And I’m not going to defend Sainz’s racecraft. He’s made plenty of mistakes while fighting for position, but he was blameless to this crash. Kvyat just failed to control his own car.

      1. @casjo and furthermore, there was plenty of space on Kvyat’s left where he could’ve gone to rejoin safely after that part of the sequence. Instead he came back on like a torpedo!

        1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
          17th July 2017, 8:32

          At the speed Kvyat was going, I think trying to rejoin the track as quick as possible was the most sensible thing to do at that point in time. If he had tried to break or steer left, he could have spun the car and gone sideways onto the track which could have resulted much worse. I know it was his fault for risking the move on the outside and running wide, but once he had done this, I think he had to try and rejoin quickly. I don’t think they will have considered it dangerous if there wasn’t another car there. All that happened is that he rejoined and then had a bit of oversteer which resulted in the collision. This could have been exactly the same even if he hadn’t gone off track. The won’t have given him a penalty for “rejoining the track unsafely” then. I totally disagree with the reasoning for the penalty, but do agree that he should have roughly got the penelty he did get. But the reason for it was the fact that he had a bit of oversteer and crashed into Sainz. This was nearly 2 seconds after he rejoined the track. Now I think again, I think that penalty was possibly a little too harsh even though it certainly was Kvyat’s fault.

          1. At the speed Kvyat was going, I think trying to rejoin the track as quick as possible was the most sensible thing to do at that point in time. If he had tried to break or steer left, he could have spun the car and gone sideways onto the track which could have resulted much worse.

            How people dont get this baffle me and think it’s like everyday driving on the road.

          2. @thegianthogweed @rockie
            I agree generally, he could have conceded before he committed to the right hander (and straight lined it), but it wasn’t obvious he was going to run wide at that point. I agree with DC that it was just a high-speed racing incident. Although Kvyat was obviously predominantly at fault so the drive-through penalty was fair, especially considering it ended Sainz’s race, I think the penalty points were too much.

          3. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
            17th July 2017, 20:03

            @rockie

            What you have said isn’t exactly true.
            1. You are FAR less likely to loose control on grass with every day road cars.
            2. If you are going 150mph+, then you shouldn’t ever be driving on the road. Unless you are in Germany on the motorway of course!

            In Kvyats case, it was his fault for getting there in the first place, but he won’t have had any idea what could have happened next. He could have spun if he braked, he could have locked up and that could have been worse. He tried to rejoin instantly to try and regain control but failed. His fault, but I still think the penalty was a little harsh.

            And @george
            I also agreed with DC’s view partly, although I do think some sort of penalty was certainly necessary, just not quite as harsh as this. Probably the same just without the penalty points.

  4. I think vettel is going to learn this season why alonso quit ferrari. They seem to be unable to keep up with mercedes and their rate of development, just like they couldn’t keep up with redbull when alonso was there. Now that the mercs have their tyre issues sorted I can only see this title race going 1 way and that’s a Hamilton bottas fight. Also since we found out it was the ferrari’s that were burning oil in qualifying they have been nowhere near the Mercedes in Canada, baku and now this week in Britain in qualifying. So either Hamiltons laps were that good or ferrari’s qualifying pace is gone.

    1. Marian Gri (@)
      17th July 2017, 7:04

      There was absolutely no other place for VET to go after 2014! End of the story. Looking at the situation as a whole, 2015-2017, he landed in the best place possible (Mercedes aside): Ferrari team, big salary, a team mate he can dominate – RAI. Staying at RBR would have been worse for his palmares and for image as a champ. So, if his tenure at Ferrari won’t be something to make him smile, he’ll just have to think about ALO and what happened to him after leaving Ferrari. Unless the atmosphere at Ferrari is so toxic that one has to give away 20-30 millions, few wins per year, more than sure ALO regrets leaving them. But, just as most humans, ALO won’t recognize his mistake, just as VET didn’t recognize his mistake of hitting HAM.

      1. @corrado-dub, Alonso has indicated in the past that the atmosphere really was that toxic within the team, with Motorsport Magazine claiming that was intentional – that Marchionne, wanting Alonso out to put Vettel in the team, got Mattiacci in to make things difficult and unpleasant for Alonso within the team to push him towards quitting. If they really were prepared to go to those lengths, then I can see why Alonso wouldn’t regret leaving the team.

  5. I actually thought Kvyat had been quite strong up until the last few races. But his comments sum up the problems with how the drivers now see the penalty system. Originally 5 and 10 second time penalties were brought in because drive through penalties were too much for incidents such as blue flags and occasional track limits abuse. But naturally the stewards got it wrong and started giving them out for everything and now a drive through for eliminating somebody, nearly taking out 2, is considered to be too harsh. He’s done this a few times, too, so I consider it to be too weak, if anything.

    1. I don’t get why he would complain, the penalty was completely useless. Kvyat had a damaged car and was last, without any chance to have a good result. A drive-through penalty at that point doesn’t do anything.

      Had he been taken out by the crash too, he might have gotten a grid penalty for Hungary, which would have been a decent punishment.

      1. @casjo exactly, they probably had that in mind when they told him to stay out when it happened.

      2. @casjo in my view the problem here is that theres a ruleset for some drivers, those that get away with first lap incidents or take downs, and a rulebook for unpopular drivers.

  6. With all this early silly season talk. One thing that has me wondering is what will Ferrari do with Charles Leclerc? He has been dominating F2 like crazy. And as we have recently discovered, letting them sit for a year is not really the best option. I remember everybody being excited about vandorne when he was still in GP2 but this kid is….. he could really be the next big thing that has talent, race craft and is blindingly fast.

    1. Sundar Srinivas Harish
      17th July 2017, 2:57

      McL management has said on a couple of occasions that Vandoorne has had a hard time adapting to F1 after GP2 and Super Formula due to the constant updates that an F1 car has vs. the stability of a spec series. Leclerc is talented and killing the F2 scene, but he needs to get some mileage in free practice and winter testing before he can enter F1.

    2. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
      17th July 2017, 9:05

      They will put him in a haas I think very soon.

  7. Jayteeniftb
    17th July 2017, 2:58

    Maybe Toto can stop bending over in public.

  8. Kvyat: “Sainz should’ve seen collision coming”

    This, after all, they were near each other…

    1. maybe he saw it, but what really could have he done about it? Brace?

  9. I thought Toto was smarter than that. Lewis was booed because he skipped the event and his flawless drive in the race is a different thing. That was up close thing and personal to the fans, totally different atmosphere to a race weekend.

    1. @scuderia_fan85 I think Totos rant at Grosjean also proves how protective of his own brand he can be.

  10. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    17th July 2017, 4:32

    What on earth is Kvyat talking about? Is he seriously hoping Sainz will avoid collisions with him? Sainz did that at Baku screwing up his race!!!

    Sainz passed him today and he went berserk…

    Should Alonso and Verstappen have avoided the collision last week?

    The things he says are absolutely absurd.

    1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
      17th July 2017, 8:54

      @freelittlebirds
      In Baku, Sainz admitted afterwards that he did just overreact. It was unnecessary to suddenly jolt to the left when there was over half a cars width between himself and Kvyat.

      Kvyat wouldn’t be so stupid to say Alonso and Verstappen should have avoided the collision in Austria as they were both infront, not even along side. But that was clearly his fault and he didn’t make a load of excusses for that. But infact, Horner didn’t think what he did that time was that bad even though it took out one of his own drivers.

      The things Kvyat say are a little unreasonable some of the time. But Sainz has been similar with his incidents. Saying “He hit me. Stroll. He didn’t see me coming. He just turned in to me like as if I was not there” As well as a load of swearing. The language isn’t quite as bad as Kvyat but his assumption to what happened was also completely unreasonable. All drivers have these moments.

      When Verstappen has had bad luck or has been crashed into, he understandably gets frustraited and angry on the radio and can’t control his words very well at times. But it is true that although Kvyat has been responsible for 2 retirements, he’s had 4 that were not his fault at all. He’s nearly had Verstappen’s level of bad luck so his frustration sometimes is understandable. But I do agree when mistakes such as this one in Britain is clearly his fault, those excuses are unreasonable. But hardly much worse that what other drivers have said about incidents they have been involved in this year.

      I think that Kvyat will be able to put together some decent drives pretty soon. It does seem that the team still believe in him from what I’ve read and it it looking very likely they will keep him for next year. If he was as bad as people think, they wouldn’t do that.

      1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        17th July 2017, 14:37

        @thegianthogweed
        But Sainz’ overreaction in Baku was caused by Kvyat, wasn’t it? He sees the car coming back, he realizes that it’s the sister car, he adjusts, and boom he’s turning. In retrospect there was obviously enough room for both cars but should Sainz have put that to the test?

        Now, he’s saying there are 20 races, these collisions are normal, I’m extremely calm… Well, Kvyat’s the only calm one at Toro Rosso and Red Bull;-) Toro Rosso are now thinking about Haas and Renault passing them in the WCC and wishing Sainz had double the points he has and maybe Kvyat found it in his heart to add a few points for the team.

        Yesterday, there obviously wasn’t enough room for both cars and Kvyat should have known better than to try to gain the position over those turns with the other car.

        What I don’t understand was his comment that Sainz should have known we’d collide and worked with Kvyat to avoid the collision.

        Sainz had already worked with Kvyat in Baku and prevented the collision on that turn or the next one … Did Kvyat thank him? If Kvyat is expecting Sainz to reach out again and rescue him after Baku, he’s crazy…

        1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
          17th July 2017, 20:21

          @freelittlebirds
          I do completely agree that it is very unreasonable for Kvyat to expect Sainz to have given him room in Britain. That was asking for too much.

          You can say that in Baku, it was because Kvyat was rejoining the track that Sainz reacted, but it was totally unnecessary how much he did react. Kvyat rejoined the track at the latest possible moment before the run off wasn’t there. and he didn’t lunge back on, he joined pretty carefully and gradually. And as I said, the gap between them was over half a cars width and it was at this point that Sainz overreacted. Kvyat wasn’t coming towards him quickly, so that really wasn’t necessary and while Sainz was frustrated at the time, he did admit that it wasn’t unreasonable what Kvyat did and he will have effectively done the same if he was in a similar situation. I believe any driver will have. The commentators on Channel 4 just thought he had a massive overreaction as he could have steered left just as easily without loosing control. But even that wasn’t needed to be done as Kvyat was still as close to the wall as possible without driving on the kerb. It was Kvyat’s fault for going off in the first place, but he had no need to thank Sainz at all as Kvyat won’t have hit anyone even if Sainz hadn’t reacted at all.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA1UkN8Lfbk

          I guess we can have different opinions but this video shows the gap between them is just so huge that contact wouldn’t have happened even if Sainz continued to go slightly closer towards the edge of the track.

          1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            17th July 2017, 20:39

            @thegianthogweed imo from the overhead, Kvyat does appear to be heading for a collision there and then straightens it out.

            I’m not sure that Sainz overreacted based on Kvyat’s move – Sainz caught him in his peripheral vision which didn’t give him the exact distance and of course he immediately took action to avoid a collision. A spin wasn’t a bad outcome actually given the way Kvyat rolled the dice there – Sainz could have easily clipped him taking both of them out and it would not have been his fault at all…

            What I don’t understand, it was so easy for Kvyat to come in behind Sainz without any incident and then raced him afterwards.

            Same with the pass at Silverstone, get behind him and wait for a chance like Perez did. If the chance comes, grab it.

            Why does he need to play Russian Roulette with his car and the other teammate’s car – this goes ten-fold for the Russian Torpedo:-) He’s got the nickname so he MUST drive smart and fast, not dangerously and recklessly…

            His statements that he’s totally calm after 3 gran prix that would make Maldonado jealous make him sound like a madman, not someone who acknowledges the situation, apologizes, and comes back strong like Grosjean did.

          2. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
            17th July 2017, 22:24

            I do agree with some of what you have put, but have to disagree with the incident in Baku.

            The reason why Kvyat won’t have waited to go behind Sainz is because there was plenty of room alongside him. There is no point waisting time as there was space in his view to rejoin safely. It didn’t even get investigated and Sainz did admit he overreacted after the race. I know Kvyat made a mistake by going off, but the manner in which he rejoined was just fine. I have hardly seen anyone complain about the way he did this. You are one of the few I think.

            Kvyat had started rejoining the track well before Sainz was near the edge and Sainz could have just continued going slightly to the left like he already was doing instead of suddenly jolting. Maybe his view was different at the time, but we still shouldn’t be saying Kvyat did anything wrong in terms of rejoining the track. He had the space to do so and he did. Kvyat was over a wheels distance ahead so I don’t quite know why Sainz will have struggled to see out that there was quite some gap between him and Kvyat before he reacted.

            Also, if Kvyat had slowed down enough to pull in behind Sainz, he will have lost so much speed that the Saubers behind him would have to brake hard or swerve around him that may well have caused some chaos. And it would just be stupid to wait until everybody had passed before rejoining. Coming back on track at the same speed as the competitors is more sensible in this situation IMO. There just wasn’t anything wrong with the way he rejoined at all. Kvyat just made a mistake by locking up and going wide and Sainz made a small mistake of misjudging that the gap was much bigger than he thought it was.

  11. Funny because statistically Vettel had the highest qualifying position and even though Ferrari have had fewer poles they always seem to have a car on the front row.
    Race pace, Hamilton was in a class of his own and Bottas got the better of the Ferrari’s way too easily. Though I think this was a result of Seb being stuck behind Max at the start of the race.

    1. Well Mercedes is clearlly faster now than Ferrari, both in quali and race. Few months ago Ferrari was ahead on race pace. Now that advantage dematerialised.

  12. I think Vettel meant

    “Lewis’s qualifying pace a game changer”

    .
    Both Ferrari outqualified Bottas here.

    1. @kbdavies last time around Vettel beat Lewis in qualifying but at least one of the mercs made pole.

  13. Mercedes have been the faster car for three races now, before that Ferrari were quicker in the race, but lacked the Q3 boost of Mercedes. If they cannot arrest this, Mercedes will start pulling away in the second half. Hamilton could win another 6 races and 8 poles before the season is out!

  14. COTD have we watched the same races.Daniil is within a tenth of Sainz qualifying times. Austria’s stat was over ambitious, Silverstone’s first lap was like Bottas and Verstappens aggressive clumsy first laps, they didnt even get a penalty for their multiple first lap clashes yet, Daniil is getting probably deserved penlties.

  15. What did Martin brundle say about hamilton’s Silver Arrow after driving it at Silverstone ?
    It was the best car he ever drove and it just about drove itself.
    What is the point ? The point is that Mercedes put the time effort and money into building the best cars ever to touch an F1 track and those cars don’t need a Lewis Hamilton or a Sebastian Vettel ,those cars are so good that any F1 driver can pilot them to a win .Period .
    Would I like to see Vettel and Hamilton in the same car so we can see how they would do against each other when on equal footing ? Who wouldn’t but, Mercedes is not about to pay a Vette salary when they can pay a Bottas salary and get the same result ?
    So does Mercedes have the opportunity to pit these two great driver against each other on a level field and let the world see what could be the greatest driver’s battle in F1 history ? Yes .
    Does auto racing history cry out for this match-up ? Yes .
    Will the accounting dept.at Mercedes give a damn ? No .
    Will we ever see that pairing ? No .
    Why ? because we the fans don’t matter,only our dollars do .

    1. +1. Liberty/FOM needs to end machine dominance. I bet my grandma will win races in a Mercedes

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