In the round-up: Mercedes say they are not spending any of their engine development tokens to introduce a revised engine for the Canadian Grand Prix, at a track where straight-line speed is crucial.
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Mercedes holds fire on F1 engine tokens (Motorsport)
Mercedes has made it clear that no tokens are being used yet, and that it will keep its powder dry and deploy them later in the year.
Sauber eyes cash boost from upturn (Autosport)
"Hopefully the talks will lead to something and there will be more sponsors on the car in the coming races."
One of F1's most popular venues poised to upgrade for the future (James Allen on F1)
"The Octane Racing Group Inc. president also stressed that the plan to make more room for he teams to work will not mean any modifications to the circuit: 'We will not touch it — I was clear on it last June — this is a unique track and a challenging track, and you don’t change a winning formula.'"
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First time Max drove his dad Jos in a road car! An interview for Dutch TV in Monaco, but we added funny subtitles :p https://t.co/bC1q12ocgT
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Comment of the day
What we can expect from the new entrant the FIA is seeking for next year?
The only way anybody would want to join F1 is if they have a similar strategy to Haas. Not so much from a wide technical partnership perspective, but a commercial one. Haas has been pretty clear upfront, he will use F1 to promote his brand, he feels that the platform is still relevant with respect to brand recognition.
A privateer entrant who just wants to go racing has no chance. Those days are over and until the current folk who run F1 is flushed out, don’t hope of it changing any time soon.
It would be interesting to see, if any, who actually joins next year. Chances are, they would probably be a group of individuals with serious money to burn, for fun.
@jaymenon10
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On this day in F1
Former F1 driver Andrea de Cesaris was born on this day in 1959. De Cesaris, who started over 200 grands prix, died in a motorcycle accident last year.
Pete (@repete86)
31st May 2015, 0:05
According to Lotus, Mercedes are bringing an upgrade. What can they upgrade without using tokens?
bola
31st May 2015, 0:09
Reliability.
Biggsy
31st May 2015, 4:36
“relliability”
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
31st May 2015, 8:11
“Reliability” (emphasis on the quotation mark) to be exact @repete86
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
31st May 2015, 8:54
That’s right – they’ll be about half a second more reliable.
DaveD (@daved)
31st May 2015, 14:07
LOL exactly!
dragoll (@dragoll)
31st May 2015, 0:39
At the moment, Mercs are one of the wider cars towards the rear of the car, it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re going to change the layout of all the components somewhat to they can have a narrower rear end.
Kgn11
31st May 2015, 10:58
But why would they need to do that now when they’ve already got the fastest car on the grid? Their aerodynamics is better than everyone else’s, better power unit, better handling basically better in every way.
For them that’s just a pointless exercise.
vtf
31st May 2015, 18:36
Yeaaa…Why don’t they just stop? lol
Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989)
31st May 2015, 12:15
Fuel and Lubricants can boost the engine performance without using tokens.
Baron (@baron)
31st May 2015, 14:05
It might be an upgrade for Lotus, (software?) but perhaps Mercedes have been running it all season…
Polo (@polo)
31st May 2015, 16:38
@baron The customer teams have identical engines to the works team. Not only is it stipulated in their contract, it’s part of the regulations as well.
From AUTOSPORT:
“We have no doubts over the parity of the engines from Mercedes during the Australian Grand Prix,” Symonds told AUTOSPORT.
“We have a great working relationship with all the team at Brixworth and know how hard they pushed things to the limt to bring the best performance to Australia.
“HPP are constantly checking the data and all the power units are exceptionally close in performance.
“Our aim now is to continue developing the car to ensure we can fight Ferrari.”
Engine freeze regulations mean that the engine specification supplied to the Mercedes customer teams should be the same – other than at times when upgrades are introduced and the four-power units per entry regulations create an offset.
Bob Fernley, deputy team principal of fellow Mercedes customer Force India, stressed that this is a contractual obligation.
“Yes, and the contract states that,” Fernley told AUTOSPORT when asked whether Force India has engine parity.
“All fairness to Mercedes, they have always been straight with us.”
Mercedes’ advantage over its customers is down to their chassis, they simply have a lot more downforce. Mercedes are one of the slower teams in the speed traps, but are the fastest in slow, medium and high-speed (aka all) corners. Mercedes’ most dominant race so far was in Barcelona, a track that puts emphasis on the chassis.
jale
31st May 2015, 20:59
Chassis or aerodynamics??
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
1st June 2015, 3:23
@repete86 Also software and perhaps the actual PU that Merc is using. Andy Cowell has said that Mercedes can’t bother to make a PU for themselves and the costumer but inside track states the costumer teams are not allowed to disclose such information henceforth all the backtracking Massa did in the aftermath of his post Melbourne comments regarding PU equality.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
31st May 2015, 0:26
As long as they don’t add more tarmac run off or change something on the layout, fine by me, Canadian GP organizers! Go ahead and upgrade what it is one of the most entertaining GPs to watch. It always delivers.
Strontium (@strontium)
31st May 2015, 1:26
@fer-no65 Yep!! Just left a comment on yesterday’s roundup saying that this track is undoubtedly the one track on the calendar which everybody loves, always produces great races, and is simply the best track there is.
graham228221 (@graham228221)
31st May 2015, 9:43
“Always” produces good races?
Don’t jinx it dude, we’re well overdue a half decent race…
vtf
31st May 2015, 14:19
I am not sure even Canada can give a good race in the midst of Mercedes dominance!
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
31st May 2015, 16:43
What about last year then?
vtf
31st May 2015, 18:02
You think it was a good race? You may have fairly low standards when it comes to a good race… And it’s really sad that the only thing making a race “good” is Mercedes having a reliability issue…. or making absurd strategic errors lol.
Jack (@jmc200)
31st May 2015, 21:18
Last year was great, so was 2012, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007…
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
31st May 2015, 2:27
Thanks for CotD @keithcollantine!
kimiwillwinagain
31st May 2015, 3:19
Just wrote to Sauber recommending they contact IKEA regarding sponsorship. Seems crazy it already hasn’t happened given the livery of the car. Could also be that they have and sponsorship was declined. If the logo does pop up on the car now though I’m definitely claiming credit for that!
Simon (@weeniebeenie)
31st May 2015, 4:51
Curious what they’re actually planning to do with the Montreal garages, if they aren’t going to affect the actual track. There really isn’t any room for manoeuvre there, just that small area behind the current building, any further and you’re going to get wet…
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
31st May 2015, 8:12
@weeniebeenie Island garages or Dutch-style reclamation? :)
lethalnz
31st May 2015, 6:26
i would hate to see the gap when Merc start to use their tokens,
Merc may have the widest rear body work but they also have the smallest air inlets.
i am very impressed with how Merc are staying ahead or at least holding their own with aerodynamics,
kpcart
31st May 2015, 8:35
Atleast they have the least amount of tokens to spend, hopefully it is warm in Montreal, Ferrari might challenge
vtf
31st May 2015, 14:20
Or raining…
vtf
31st May 2015, 14:21
Eureka! Raining in qualifying, baking hot in race!
Duc Pham (@ducpham2708)
31st May 2015, 6:51
I read somewhere a few weeks ago that Ferrari is planning an engine upgrade for Canada, but now the Motorsport article states it isn’t.
Since Ferrari has more tokens than Mercedes and Renault has more tokens than Ferrari, I’m getting my hopes on that the 3 engines will be balanced when they all use up their tokens. Honda is out of the race already I believe.
anon
31st May 2015, 7:54
That is correct – it has been decided that engine upgrades can only be introduced with a new power unit, so they cannot be retrospectively bolted onto an old engine unit.
Now, because Ferrari chose to use a second engine much earlier in the season than Mercedes have – both Mercedes drivers were still on their first engine in Monaco – they would have to introduce a third engine in Canada if they wanted to introduce those upgrades.
The catch is, they would then either have to re-use the pre-upgrade specification engine later on in the season, potentially take an engine penalty later in the season or have to run the engines in a slightly detuned state, as it would be difficult to run every race from Canada to Abu Dhabi on just two engines.
That is why they are therefore pushing back the introduction of the upgraded engine – if they can eke out a few more races on the current units, it makes the situation much better for them towards the end of the season.
Ivan B (@njoydesign)
31st May 2015, 14:06
Finnish Turun Sanomat had an article saying that Ferrari are going to upgrade the engine for Canada without using tokens (effectively same as Mercedes), and that according to their “calculations” it should give them some extra 0.8s a lap.
vtf
31st May 2015, 14:24
LOL They would be contenders for pole then! It must be exaggeration even if it’s true. It would be a dream come true though. I want to see Ferrari pole, just for the sake of change… We almost got one in Malaysia. Vettel is 1 pole minus Senna right now, IIRC?
David-A (@david-a)
31st May 2015, 18:32
1 win behind Senna. 20 poles behind Senna, 23 poles behind Schumacher.
vtf
31st May 2015, 21:01
@david-a You’re right! Hamilton’s also coming closer and closer. Hard to keep track all of them.
anon
31st May 2015, 22:09
@njoydesign, those “calculations” by Turun Sanomat sound decidedly questionable.
The rumour before this race was that Ferrari had originally planned to introduce a performance upgrade worth about 30bhp using their tokens, before deciding to shift the introduction of their new engine to later in the season (but that would probably only be worth a few tenths of a second per lap).
Given that reliability upgrades would probably offer far smaller performance gains, I can’t see that being anywhere near enough to give 0.8s a lap – unless they’ve got a decimal point in the wrong place and meant 0.08s a lap.
Duc Pham (@ducpham2708)
31st May 2015, 17:43
Well they can use their 2 old engines on Friday practices, just like they are running their 1st engines on Friday practice and 2nd ones for Saturday/Sunday.
I myself dislike the idea, it makes Friday practice less reference to Qualy/Race and therefore much more boring. The team itself won’t be able to correct accurate data as well.
But it looks like they’re not using their tokens, which is strategically wise I believe.
vtf
31st May 2015, 18:07
It would be pretty hard finishing the rest of the season on 2 engines. Either they are going to take a penalty in one race where they think will matter the least, or they can use the 2nd engine in low-power circuits. But I think they will preferably use a new engine in Monza. Not sure where they will be taking the 3rd engine, Canada or not…
Park
31st May 2015, 12:40
I suspect Honda has been on par with Renault in every area(power, reliability, driverability)
bola
31st May 2015, 14:25
Only problem their cars just shut down in the middle of a lap… They are lucky it hasn’t happened yet in the middle of a fast corner or something. Maybe that’s what happened to Alonso in Barcelona pre-season testing??
ColdFly F1 (@)
31st May 2015, 8:01
Mercedes, Honda, Ferrari not having used any tokens yet!
They might have listened to me, and followed my (loophole) strategy ;)
Continue developing the engine parts as long as possible and introduce the new engine after Abu Dhabi! The parts will be developed to the max and available for next season, and there will be no grid penalty as there is no race after Abu Dhabi!
Engines can be upgraded until the end of the season and there is some time between the last race and the end (need to check the regulation to see exactly how much).
Also Mercedes is primarily concerned about the works team and probably do not need a power boost to win the championships. Ferrari similarly is only concerned about the main team, and will probably be in the same situation to come in 2nd (WCC) and 3rd (WDC). Honda is all focussed on next year.
BasCB (@bascb)
31st May 2015, 10:03
yes, it seems that is indeed what the teams are trying to do.
Woody (@woodyd91)
31st May 2015, 10:29
So they won’t be using any tokens to upgrade the engines but you can bet a few quid on the engine having a few “reliability” improvements on it seeing as this will be the race where Merc take their 2nd engines one would think?
Woody (@woodyd91)
31st May 2015, 10:41
I forgot to say but you have to say it’s massively impressive that apart from Renault that Merc and Ferrari seem to have very impressive reliability in only the 2nd season of these new regs, Honda are obviously out of sync with the rest of the grid but it is hugely impressive from the others how far you can come in a single season.
This is why I think Ferrari have closed up on Mercedes a little, I think Mercedes recognised that the weakest area of their engine last season was the reliability and they have focused development in those areas rather than outright performance gains, of course they have added more performance to the units but I’m just wondering how much performance they can find when thats what their main focus would be. The Ferrari engine last season wasn’t all that unreliable, their main issue was the recovery systems if i remember correctly, so they were reliable but slow and Merc were mighty fast but somewhat unreliable. They both seem to have made big gains in those departments.
I see the engine order for next season to be Mercedes > Ferrari > Honda > Renault, actually I could see that order happening before next season if Renault doesn’t get to grips with their issues.
serene
31st May 2015, 14:30
Nex season who knows really? Ferrari might scrap the chassis and redesign everything it seems… They have the potential to better Mercedes engine. But RBR and Renault might very well catch up with Ferrari or even Mercedes anyway. If Ferrari goes with a new design will that be better/worse than RBR? McLaren would have ironed out their problems by than one would think… Who knows what Williams and Lotus will do. Or even STR,FI,Sauber really.
Woody (@woodyd91)
31st May 2015, 23:13
I agree, anything can or has the potential to happen however without any major regulation change, of which there isn’t for next year. You have to go on what is happening now and what is most likely.
In terms of RBR and Renault catching up to Ferrari or even Mercedes, of course they will, but simply because they have so much room for improvement in their engine and somewhat in the chassis compared to Mercedes, how close they will actually get is another matter though.
Mclaren are the interesting team on the grid because they are the unknown, nobody really knows the true potential are the engine because they have to run it handicapped just to keep it running. Although even when they get the engine running to optimum levels according to some it wont be enough, According to Peter Windsor Mclaren think that the engine currently makes up for around 60% of the deficit to Mercedes. So even when they get the engine to where they know it can be they aren’t on the same level so they still need to improve the chassis, which is something Mclaren have struggled with in recent years. Will they improve? Again yes of course, will they improve enough? Who knows, but from what we hear it’s not just about Honda getting it together it’s also Mclaren. Time will tell.
In terms of Williams you can never be to sure, although I think their performance last season was more about them being flattered by the lack of performance from behind. The greatest weapon Williams have at the moment is the Mercedes engine, when that becomes a weaker bullet than it is now and when they have to out develop their rivals on chassis I think we will see them fall back down the grid slightly, Monaco was a painful experience for them, they knew it wouldn’t their best race but I think they were shocked at how bad it really was.
STR are the team, if any team is going to be brought that is, it will be them in my opinion, partly because I think Dietrich Mateschitz wont mind off loading the team that is giving their senior team some trouble, embarrassing them on a few occasions this season. Pure hyperbole of course but STR are their to develop Red Bull’s talent pool, not to make the world championship winning senior team look average.
vtf
31st May 2015, 18:11
Is McLaren at full power now? I thought the weird noise it makes may stem from the fact that engine is not at its maximum? That is a really really weird noise lol. Have you ever heard another distinctly different noise coming from an engine??
Robert jones
1st June 2015, 10:31
This is the design and positioning of the turbo setup
Robert jones
1st June 2015, 10:24
Please would you clarify.
All the Mercedes customer teams are getting engine upgrades. This involves no use of tokens? Presumably this was transfer of existing technology from lewis’s car ? This would indicate that the gap between Mercedes customer engines and lewis would be less in canada ? Presumably Mercedes will update Lewis car using the remaining token for Austria ? Ron Dennis is right you will not win using a Mercedes Customer engine anytime soon.