In the round-up: FIA president Jean Todt says those who work in F1 should not complain about this year’s record 21-round championship.
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'Twenty one race calendar a privilege', says Todt (F1i)
"If you do these jobs, if you consider all that is happening around the world, every morning you wake up, you should think about how lucky you are to be able to do 20 or 21 races."
The Privileged Few (F1 Paddock Pass)
"The wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, family, children, dogs, guinea pigs – you name it. It’s those who are at home who feel it most."
Sainz: Sochi crash 'worst seconds of my life' (GP Update)
"During the two-second period from the first to the second impact, when I was hitting the brakes and nothing happened, I said: 'it is all over'."
New tyre will challenge F1 - Smedley (Autosport)
"It's certainly not insignificant, and I would be so bold as to say I think it was sold as a little bit insignificant to reduce the tread depth by 30 per cent and therefore have 30 per cent less wear."
Damon Hill feels Williams should swap Mercedes engines for Honda (Sky)
"I would have liked to have seen Williams opt to go with the Honda engine, I think Honda are going to fight back."
'Noticias de Pastor son especulaciones' (El Universal - Spanish)
PDVSA claim there has been no change in the situation with Pastor Maldonado.
Susie Wolff 'good enough to race for midfield team', says Toto (Motorsport)
"I am sorry she never had the opportunity (to race), because I am convinced that she is good enough to race for a midfield team."
Damon Hill: Competitive woman in F1 'extremely unlikely' (ITV)
"Bernie likes to say something which is controversial and he's challenging you (...) he likes to say something provocative and hopefully some people will say ok we'll prove him wrong but it shouldn't be done on the basis of that it should be on the basis of is there someone out there a girl who absolutely above everything else wants to become a Formula One world champion."
Herbert: 'Saturday for F1 teams, Sunday for F1 drivers' (Dwwnforce Radio)
"Refuelling is a terrible idea to bring back. Damon (Hill), Martin (Brundle) and I all agree that it wasn’t good for the sport. Having Felipe Massa losing a world championship because his refuelling hose got stuck at Singapore ’08 is a great case for the lunacy of it."
CVC Capital Executive Says She Lost Job Over Complaint of Sexism (Bloomberg)
"CVC Capital Partners was sued by a former executive who says she was the only female managing director on the private equity firm’s business side before being pushed out for complaining about sexism."
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— F1 Fanatic (@f1fanatic_co_uk) January 17, 2016
Rob Smedley says that the new @WilliamsRacing FW38 will be launched – as usual – on the first day of Barcelona testing, ie Feb 22nd
— Adam Cooper (@adamcooperF1) January 17, 2016
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Comment of the day
Another fine crop of caption suggestions for our second competition of the year. Here’s last weekend’s winner:
Despite the presence of the Pope, a host of dignitaries and two top drivers, the director still ensured young Carmen Jorda was in the centre of the frame.
Neil (@Neilosjames)
Thanks to everyone who joined in this week and a tip of the hat to Naz3012, AMR, Selbbin, Schooner, IVZ and close runner-up Ready_Amy_Fire for their excellent suggestions.
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On this day in F1
Two race-winning F1 drivers who were lost too soon and now have tracks named after them were born on this day: Gilles Villeneuve in 1950 and Pedro Rodriguez in 1940.
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130 comments on “F1 staff shouldn’t complain about 21 races – Todt”
Comments are closed.
Tyler (@tdog)
18th January 2016, 0:49
To think that some people accuse Jean Todt of being out of touch.
Mike
18th January 2016, 5:14
Oh the horror!
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
18th January 2016, 8:52
“The Priviledged Few”, to which Keith linked below, is a beautiful riposte to Jean’s attitude. People have limits, and it is by no means only the people boarding the planes and working late night/early morning combinations that feel the effects.
For that matter, being away from family that long and being obliged to have that many weekends with bad sleep patterns is bad for health. I can’t imagine many staff members feeling grateful for 20-21 race weekends when they get worn down towards the end of the year (an effect that’s been reported since at least 2013) and/or have flu at the end of the year.
nomeg1 (@nomeg1)
18th January 2016, 12:34
Sure Alianora, everybody knwos that they are sleeping in cheap motels, probably 3 or 4 per twin rooms.
C’mon man/woman ?, they are privileged, they eat the best food there is, stay in the best places available in the world, get good taken care of and well paid, not like other people (like me), who are constantly traveling, catching early (or late) charter planes (‘cos they are cheaper), and who are sometimes sleeping in airports because of bad timing/scheduling…
I think that those people are at the supreme of Motor Sport, living for it, make true a dream they have been having since centuries.
I don’t feel bad for them, I envy them, and I am not at all saying that those people aren’t immense workers, they are, but for passion…
jt
18th January 2016, 13:42
– Correct
– False
BasCB (@bascb)
19th January 2016, 6:59
As JT so eloquently stated before, the majority of the race crews are exactly
@nomeg1
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
19th January 2016, 20:20
@nomeg1 I’m a woman.
Strontium (@strontium)
18th January 2016, 0:52
Todt is absolutely right about 21 races. They’re Formula 1 engineers, they’re very well paid and it’s not supposed to be an easy job. They should be pushed right to the limit just like the drivers and just like the cars they design. That’s what F1 is.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 0:59
F1 is about keeping people from their families and loved ones?
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 1:45
@raceprouk 21 races, 21 weekends, assuming they leave on Wednesday and get back on Monday means 4 day on the road. So 84 days out of country from 365 days in a year. I think it’s reasonable enough, considering they still at home for major European holidays (summer break and Christmas/new year). Many jobs requires you to stay away from your family for longer time probably with less pay and certainly not as enjoyable as working on F1 (I doubt there are F1 mechanics who doesn’t love F1). Using away from family and friends as an excuse is whining in my opinion.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 2:13
Do you really think that happens at every grand prix? I’m willing to bet that it certainly does not happen for back-to-back grands prix, of which there are several. Then there’s the promo events and in-season tests. Not to mention the sheer physical stress of flying 30-40 times in a single year.
My brother is currently just a few months into an 18-month stay on Bird Island, in the Southern Hemisphere. Want to know how long he had to prepare for that? A year. What’s more, he chose to do so. The F1 engineers however did not choose to do a 21-race calendar. They did not choose to fly 30-40 times in a single year. And to use the fact they’re paid better than other professions is just an excuse to dismiss their needs, concerns, and general health, both physically and mentally.
As for enjoyability, well, that depends entirely on what you enjoy. I know for a fact my brother is enjoying his time on Bird Island, and would choose it over being an F1 engineer in a heartbeat.
Oh, and Wednesday to Monday is six days on the road. So take that 84 and make it 116; oh look, suddenly it doesn’t seem so great now, does it?
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
18th January 2016, 3:33
I don’t understand how exploitation of race staff is a credible argument against 21 races.
Surely, the teams could simply rotate staff. I can’t see why Paddy Lowe can’t do an almost identical job from Brackley. If this requires the teams have to take on more staff then, excellent. There are many engineers out there desperate to come into the sport with fresh ideas and solutions. If the teams argue to the FIA that these expenses are payable to them, due to the increase in wages, then surely everyone wins. I predict we’ll see 22 or 23 races in the future as when I started watching F1 there were on 16 races and we were told that anymore would be impossible.
Having one race in seven weeks seems like nonsense to me as well. Why can’t we commit to a 6 week gap where staff can have a full month off?
Surely, these are better solutions than deprivng the fans of more action.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 4:03
@raceprouk With several back-to-back GPs, there also home GP where they actually can get back home each day if they want (considering most of the team based in UK, so it will be British GP). Also majority of the GP is still in European countries so the travel is less exhausting, and road travel is feasible alternative if someone hates flying that much.
Your brother doesn’t need a full year to prepare 18 months leave. And the staff is not even making semi permanent resident either. Their preparation is only a luggage for few days stay at the hotel and whatever their job need them to bring (but most likely it delivered with the car so no much more than you bring when you go travelling). Also your brother choosing his job over F1 engineer is irrelevant because I’m talking about people who become F1 engineer most likely wants to be there. Who cares if non F1 engineer prefer other job for this discussion?
Also I meant Monday they already got back home. (Flying off Sunday night from the GP and arriving back hom at Monday morning). So its still 5 days on the road. Even if we bumped it to 100 days, its still less than 1/3rd of the year spent away from home. If your relationship broken because you far away (and there still phone and internet access to communicate most of the time, we not racing in some backwater countries here) for about 3-4 months total, you seriously need to get better partner/friend.
To put another perspective: Offshore oil engineer or mine engineers usually need to go to the site on 3weeks on – 2 weeks off basis and most likely its in backwater place where there’s no internet or even cell coverage and certainly the room is not hotel grade (don’t bring Sochi here, that’s an exception). Or expats that send to other country for much longer term (like your brother). All of them also don’t have a choice where they will be sent to. Compared to them, F1 engineers is living in paradise.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
18th January 2016, 9:27
@rbalonso
They could……..ages ago.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 9:48
@rbalonso: At a time when the smaller teams are struggling just to stay afloat, you want to double their staff costs?
@sonicslv:
Wow, I’m so glad an Internet random knows better than the British Antarctic Survey what training is needed for 18 months on an island with a peak population of 12; I guess my brother didn’t need cold-weather training or minor surgery skills after all.
Firstly, good luck doing that from Australia or Japan; they’re easily over 20 hours away from the UK. Secondly, do you know how long it takes to pack up at the end of a GP weekend? Sure, some staff may be able to leave Sunday night (yay for being up for 24 hours before your flight), but the rest will leave on the Monday.
Yes, let’s completely forget about the children that see one of their parents for little over half a year.
And you still haven’t addressed the physical and mental stresses associated with that much global travel.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 10:59
@raceprouk First, you the one who brings your brother to this topic, implying F1 engineers need that extreme preparations for flyaway races.
Second, For the really long races, we have Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan, China on the far east side and Canada, US, Mexico, Brazil for the far west side. That’s 9 out of 21 races where the rest is in or very near to UK. And not all of them is back to back.
Third, even if we say its 4 months not actually sleeping in the home, we already have technology called video conference or at the very least telephone. Also its not even 4 months straight and most of the time they can still meet their children every 2 weeks. And most importantly, they can be there on summer break and Christmas where their children school is on holiday break too. Believe me many other job separates you from your family for more days than that. Or maybe everyone in your family will have a strained relationship to your brother when he came back after 18 months out there, including his children if he has any?
Fourth, although you got stressed both physically and mentally, traveling in group with people you know ease that a bit. You can socialize with your co-worker while waiting at the airport or in the plane for instance, which much better than travelling alone. Also staying for few days before boarding the plane back is much better than go to a country alone, do your job for a day or maybe 2 and then boarding a plane back, which some job actually require you to do that.
Does being F1 engineer tiring? Of course, but its a job and hopefully its a dream job for many people there. People who become F1 engineer should be qualified for other more office type job too if they wish quit and stay near their home. Todt is right, being an F1 engineer is a privilege because they still have much more options than average people. But, everything come with a cost, and being F1 engineer is no exception.
And lastly, you don’t even addresses the other job that has similar burden but actually way worse than being F1 engineers.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 11:05
Is that your tactic now @sonicslv? Making stuff up to discredit me? Yeah, real classy. Why stop there? Why not make up even more stuff, eh?
Don’t put words in my mouth.
And that somehow magically makes it OK to keep adding races. Great. Well done there.
Of course! The cure for all the physical and mental stresses and the health implications is to have someone else suffer with you! It’s all so clear to me now! Not, y’know, reducing stress levels and actually taking into account health; no, that’s just crazy medical talk.
You know nothing about my family, so don’t try to psychoanalyse them, thankyou very much.
CashNotClass (@cashnotclass)
18th January 2016, 11:12
“They did not choose to fly 30-40 times in a single year.”
Yeah, they did. None of them were drafted into F1-service and all voluntarily applied for their position; probably with stiff competition for the job. Flying around the world is the logical consequence of working in a World Championship (unless it is based in America).
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 12:54
As @dbradock says below:
Because that’s exactly what’s happening here.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 12:59
@raceprouk Okay you being delusional here. This is the first time your brother comes up in this topic and its in your post (shortened a bit so not wasting space but its only few scroll up ahead if anybody want to read it completely:
By putting him in same paragraph as F1 engineer and putting a same subject (choosing to go far away places) then you if its not implying they’re in comparable situation I don’t know what you mean by that paragraph. If you feels I putting word into your mouth please explain what your original mean for that paragraph please.
Who ever said about adding races? We discussing 21 races in a season not expanding it further. I also replied to another comment below that my ideal races per season is around 18-22 races, but for our discussion is about 21 races. Now you putting words into my mouth.
Putting the word into my mouth again? What I said is : “…traveling in group with people you know ease that a bit.” Which I’m pretty sure in English “easing up a bit” means reduces it slightly. not eliminating is as a “cure” you claimed I was saying. Also it implys I acknowledged there are stress problem here but… there also a lot more job that worse than F1 engineer in that aspect and you somehow never want to reply my comment about that?
And lastly:
It’s sarcasm. It’s hard to give that in internet and I accept the blame, should’ve put a /s tag or something. I thought it’s already pretty clear it’s a sarcasm if you read the whole paragraph though.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 13:02
Delusional? I’m not the one who approves of the idea of pushing people so hard they start dropping dead from stress-induced illness.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
18th January 2016, 13:47
@raceprouk. I fail to see a single article that you cited that backs up this claim. There is no proof whatsoever that the lives of the engineers or mechanics are more stressful than say footballers, businessmen or international politicians. Much less anything that shows that anyone has died as a consequence.
You asked me who will pay for it? I had already covered that in my comment where I say that the FIA should be made to foot the costs. This improves the British Motorsport Industry and the economy by providing more jobs which is something that should be applauded.
Let’s not pretend that F1 is not profit making. The sport makes close to $1b a season. If the teams argue for the costs from the FIA then how do the fans lose? If anything this will lead to more talks on the distribution of this wealth, which is a good thing. The main problem with teams finances is that some teams can spend limitlessly where it is not practical for others. Any discussion on this is a positive step. If it was up to me, I’d prefer we had more people working in the sport anyway. Create 3 new teams with staff rotation legislation and we find hundreds more talented individuals in work.
@davidnotcoulthard. Well of course and they did with test teams. In the 90s there were two teams where, if anything, the test team worked more than the race team.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 13:50
How silly of me to forget racking up 100,000 miles in a single year is entirely stress-free.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 14:47
Okay I’m done with you, it appear you can’t or don’t want to have healthy discussion with people that have different opinion that you. For my last words I just gonna quote what someone said earlier with modified recipient name of course.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
18th January 2016, 9:09
Wednesday-Monday is 5 days on the road (staff have to be at circuit by late on Wednesday afternoon due to how long weekend preparations take, and the fact nobody can leave until a team has been technically cleared – a several-hour process – and that flights go at specific times means staff usually can’t get planes back until Monday), and that’s the minimum number of days it will be. At Monaco the minimum rises to 6 due to the bank holiday in the middle. Races followed by tests (two in 2016) add an extra 2 days apiece. Pre-season tests add another week each (so 14 extra days in total because there are two pre-season tests). Back-to-back weekends fill in the Tuesday between races (six times in 2016). Due to flight costs, two-week gapped races involving Australia tend to be treated as if back-to-back, which means an extra 8 days this year (Australia being the first round).
Total minimum days away from home: 105 + 1 + 4 + 14 + 6 + 8 = 138 days out of 365 (37.8% of the year).
Consider also that for cost reasons, these staff typically have factory jobs assisting the specialist factory staff when they’re not at the races, so it’s not like they’re getting holiday then either. Staff members with certain responsibilities (such as those putting up/taking down motorhomes) typically have to be on site 1-2 days before and 1-2 days after the races where they have those specific jobs (this was the original reason Red Bull/Toro Rosso got a separate entertainment centre for Monaco!). 170 days away from home (that’s 46.5% of the year, compared with offshore oil engineers, who are away “only” 40% according to Sonics) is not unheard of.
Teams don’t rotate staff for cost reasons – you need specialists to do most of the jobs involved in a F1 race weekend, even by engineering standards, so you couldn’t just take on a factory member who will, inevitably, be specialised in some other branch of engineering. To be competitive with other teams, you’d need a specialist in that specific job. So suddenly that means 60 more people must be hired – there are teams (Manor and Toro Rosso, I’m looking at you) for whom that would represent a 25% increase in the wage bill. The ones least able to afford the increase also tend to be the ones who have to keep people away from families longer to save on plane expenses.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
19th January 2016, 1:14
@alianora-la-canta Actually I said 3 weeks on – 2 weeks off, so its 60% away from home for the oil engineers.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
19th January 2016, 20:23
So you did. Sorry for reading it wrongly, @sonicslv.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
20th January 2016, 2:11
@alianora-la-canta No problem. It happens when you read wall of text that long :)
BasCB (@bascb)
19th January 2016, 7:09
They do not leave on wednesdays though. They arrive on wednesdays. And many leave by monday evening. With a back to back race they do not go home at all for several weeks @sonicslv.
Most of them travel in lowest price flights to save cost and I doubt they have better travel arrangements than budget tourists do. A minibus from the airport to their hostel. Probably 2-4 bedroom rooms for most. And days at the track end late enough that one would not be going home even for a home GP.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
19th January 2016, 8:30
@bascb I understand back-to-back races means they going straight to next race without going home. And their logistics probably budget value but it’s sure still better going with people you know than going alone right? At the very least, they can arrange the seats so maybe no one always get the “bad” seat. Also minibus transport is actually better as long as its not loaded more than it should be. The same goes with bed room, well my point is in large group they should able to get arrangement that best suited for them given the circumstances.
I think we should ask, does being F1 engineer gives you a lot more work than other similar profession? Is the pay vs the sacrifice you have to make is generally worse than, lets say offshore oil engineer? Soldiers? Ocean liners sailors? etc. And taking it a bit to the extreme (and silliness) does the constant travelling is much more serious health risk than can lead to death as certain someone said? Of the answer is a certain yes, it’s worse then we need to review their welfare. If its arguable, then it’s just another job, has its own perks. If the answer is certain no, it’s actually better, than I think the term “privileged” could be applied here.
BasCB (@bascb)
19th January 2016, 14:51
Lets see @sonicslv.
Yes, I am sure that most F1 personell generally think of themselves as being priviledged in that they have achieved their “dream job”. Just as many doctors doing endless shifts, sailors who dreamed of going to sea and many others do. And they are, compared to a great many people who do not do the jobs they always dreamt about. Or compared to those who do not get paid to do what they are good at, for example.
And I am sure most of the personell (and media etc) in the paddock would not take offence if any soldier, or doctor, or say a miner, a shop assistant or say a highschool teacher would tell them they are priviledged to do their dream jobs.
But it is quite a different picture when that word is used by one who is truely priviledged, jets around the world in private planes, helicopers and escorted cars to ease their travels, have personal assistants and staff to organise the tedious bits and get to sleep at top hotels in between.
Then it feels closer to the french queen asking why the plebs if they do not have bread don’t just eat cakes instead – it shows they have lost touch with a more real world.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
20th January 2016, 2:16
@bascb I was thinking the “scoring” is done by objective 3rd party though. Not by people in those jobs rating their job worth. I think there’re several objective criteria like salary, man-hours, risk, etc and some harder subjective criteria like satisfaction in working in the field, the challenge level required, etc. Surely if its done properly the french queen will have a privileged score thru the roof (and being called butthole in the summary too ;)
BasCB (@bascb)
20th January 2016, 6:12
yeah, well, that’s interesting and all @sonicslv, but it sort of ignores my point: A super privilidged guy telling this to the least priviledged people there are in F1 feels as much off as that queen telling her people about the cakes.
Also, we are talking about Bernie making the calendar without any regards for reasonable travel plans. Maybe even making it extra hard to crack the teams and enforce up to 24 races per year with a more reasonable scheduling.
That certainly plays its role too in making people upset, because the calendar just does not make sense either commercially nor does it from a view of travel plans currently. Far too much staying in one place for too long, and on the opposite back to backs that are quite a stretch. And having Austin and Mexico next to each other is a recipy to kill COTA.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
20th January 2016, 7:06
@bascb I think you a little bit overdramatic here. The gap between Todt and the lowest rank staff that traveled is not that extreme, and it’s not like the engineers is subjected to below standard modern day living circumstances. More importantly, Todt have live like that for a long time during his stint in Ferrari, so it’s not like he completely clueless on how it goes down there.
Also you sort of answered your own rant on the calendar there. As the calendar maker (Bernie) you have dilemma of making the calendar easier to travel (Mexico and COTA back to back) at the cost of lowered revenue of both circuit, or you can protect the circuit at the cost of more travel expense (cost and crews). Whatever solution you pick, people will blame you for either giving no regard to the team who make F1 what it is or milking the circuit owner but then kill it and going to the next circuit ready to milk. What worse is if you make sort of compromise, people will blame you for both! Outside of those, your responsibilities is to get most benefit for FOM/FIA/CVC (I’m not sure which actually) not the teams, not the drivers, not the circuit owners, and certainly not the fans. I’m not defending Bernie here, just stating his side perspective that usually people neglect.
Speaking on “too many races” complaints, how many people who don’t like 19-21 races think the ideal number of race per season is? At what number you finally feel the engineers is overpayed for what they actually do (assuming they got same amount of salary as 2015/2016)
BasCB (@bascb)
20th January 2016, 7:36
Sorry, @sonicslv but you completely misunderstood what I mentioned about the calendar. In its current form it does nothing at all to make for sensible travel schedules nor does it do the job of making commercial sense.
Bernie seems to be forcing the teams to travel back and forth with no other reason than to coax them into agreeing on more races provided the travelling does not get made even worse. The Canada – Baku doubleheader is a case in point.
As for “more is better” with regards to races, above maybe 16-18 there is not that much extra many fans want to see – and it often shows in the amount of viewers for the latter races. It does not help the sport at all, apart from filling the pockets of FOM even more with races like Abu Dhabi and Baku paying incredible amounts into the coffers.
And Bernie does nothing to protect the track – otherwise he would not have put Mexico right next to Austin in the calendar.
The money problem in F1 is that far too large a portion of what gets made ends up leaving the sport by paying for dividends to CVC. Contrary to what you claim, I seriously doubt many of the fans here are not aware of it. Also, FOM is completely neglecting any efforts to actually promote the sport and find ways towards growing the fanbase.
As for Todt travelling with the circus – he still lived in the best hotels, had the private jet and helicoper rides as team manager. Those and the drivers of the bigger teams have a completely different travel experience than the hundreds of other people involved.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
20th January 2016, 12:37
@bascb I think there’s discussion about why Canada has odd time in the calendar and the reason is because the weather dictates them so. I’m not sure about other circuits or why the calendar looks that way but there are many factors aside from travelling and commercial. You or I may object with their decision but I don’t think they decide the calendar with rolling a dice.
Regarding to number of races, one of the factor of latter races declining is because the in last 6 year only 2010 and 2012 that the title fight is decided in last race, the rest we have both titles decided few races before. I think Brazil 2012 still have good viewing despite being 20th race that year.
I don’t want to discuss about money problem here because the topic is are the F1 engineers privileged to be here and should complaining about 21 race this year (exact 21 race, not a seemingly growing to infinity in the future).
And while it true the more famous people have it better, but it also doesn’t mean the rest is treated like a dirt. If your boss going to work 20 days/month (5 workday/week) in a brand new S-Class Mercedes with all its luxury features and you go to work in your city car with only basic options, doesn’t mean you suddenly entitled to say you should work less than 20 days/month and the boss is out of touch because he rides in luxury? That’s why I asked for comparison with other profession with similar sacrifice. I want to know if the rest of the crew is still riding in SUV, city car, nice bus/train, a 15-year old car that should’ve been scrapped long time ago, or taking a overcrowded bus filled with gangsters.
BasCB (@bascb)
20th January 2016, 13:57
Canada has been where it is for most of the last decade @sonicslv, that is not an issue.
What is remarkable is Baku being a double header with that race, given how you travel BACK in time zones and that even shortens the time between the races. In the past new races were always held with a couple of weeks before and after, in case the logistics (including Tax authorities not playing nice) goes wrong with it being the first time etc.
Imagine finishing packing somewhere on Monday in the night from Sunday in Montreal and then having to go to Baku so that you can start unpacking everything on Tuesday afternoon – the flight takes about 24 as you need 1 or more likely 2 stops to get to Baku, and the time difference is -9 hours.
The best explanation for the dat of that race is that is will interfere with LeMans on purpose.
When you look earlier in the season you have the Singapore, Malaysia, Japan trio. One race where everyone tries to keep on EU time (night race, remember) then either decide to keep everyone there for over a week or have a flight “home” and immediately back again. Then the jump to Japan. Either a huge amount of time spent flying, or some 5 weeks away from base in one piece. Really nice.
Again, this is not about whether being an F1 engineer is a great job to do or not. Nor is it about pay (although with the budgets in the smaller teams, that is quite likely also an issue for many).
The 21 races is important, because for a very long time now the contractual limit in the contracts with FOM was 20 races, and it still is as far as I know. The teams want to stay at that limit, to avoid having to build up rotating race teams (because they would have to employ far more people). Bernie has been pushing to go up for a long time (up to some 24-25).
This is the first step from Bernie trying to force his ideas for a longer calendar through. If he can get away with 21, he will go for more.
I am not sure what you wanted to say with the boss guy and his mercedes thing. If you look around at some of the guys from the paddock who are on twitter, Facebook, instagram you can see how they travel and live during the season. Its certainly not full of top notch hotels, helicoper rides and first class flying with minimal hours during race weekends.
Just think about all the mechanics at Caterham, Manor Marussia and Lotus who were waiting months for their pay in recent years while still doing their jobs at races.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
20th January 2016, 16:33
You missing my point @bascb. I just want to say they have their own reasons, whatever it might be. Whether you agree with them or not is not the point.
About the number of races, that’s why I asked about the comparison with other profession, which you never addressed. Even if we have 24 races per season, IF being F1 engineers is still mostly better than other similar professions out there, then being F1 engineers is a privilege. On the other side, even if we have 10 races per season and being F1 engineer is worse, then something need to be done.
Also my analogy is to show that having different luxury is not an excuse to dismiss someone opinion. Now, if the crew must spend the night in a shack, full of insects that they can’t even get proper rest if they want to, having no access to clear water and food, that’s a problem. But if they stay in decent hotel then who cares if the bosses can stay in 5 star hotel? (also who actually ride helicopter to the circuit when they pick hotel near the circuit so its easy to travel in the first place? Not to mention it’s much more expensive than just renting nice car with a driver)
For the mechanic that doesn’t get paid in time, while it’s truly sad situation, it has nothing to do with the discussion. Whether we have 10 or 20 race, they still not going to get paid if the team is basically bankrupt. For some of them probably still going to do races is a better distraction than staying at home and waiting a letter than can have their paycheck or the company letting them go notice.
BasCB (@bascb)
20th January 2016, 16:48
Ehm, ok, not sure who the “they” is you mention at the start. What comparison with other professions do you want me to make @sonicslv? I think I truely don’t get your point here. They are professionals doing a full time job.
The point about the bosses living in great hotels, having helicopter rides to the track and flying private jets is that they spend far less time actually travelling, the travel they do have is hugely more comfortable and they arrive days later and leave a day earlier for any race compared to their mechanics. Its not about being envious of luxury, but about how that luxury is not just showing off here but it makes the whole travelling less of a stress and burden (in the same way as a boss travelling in a luxury sedan will arrive fitter to an appointment than the staff who went by bus and had to get up at 5 to get to the bus station for example).
The money being available and many teams being tight on money certainly DOES have a lot to do with it. Teams will not get much extra for the extra race, but their costs will rise. And because about halve of the grid is tight on money that also means they will not have the budget to be able to install rotating teams of people to do the travelling. In effect it will just mean that the same people will do more work for the same money.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
21st January 2016, 2:25
@bascb They is Bernie and whoever give him inputs on how the calendar is made. And the comparisons is to other professions that also demands to travel a lot like sailors, oil engineers, etc.
I agree that the bosses can arrives more fit than his men who takes bus for example. But does it mean his men live substandard life? What if his men drove your average car? Sure the boss still have easier time on the road, but does his men have the right to use that as an excuse if they not perform as expected on the meeting?
Now while money have something to do with it, but I think it’s drifting far enough for the topic. For this discussion can we agree money is non issue? Because if the team can have 2 team rotation, 24 races is nothing if each team handles only 12 races. And it makes it more complicated because key personnel can’t be rotated but they have those “luxury” transports. Let’s discuss if a bunch of F1 engineer with standard F1 engineer salary is actually still privileged to be one with 21 races per year.
BasCB (@bascb)
21st January 2016, 6:12
No @sonicslv. THe money is a key issue here – the teams lowered staff to keep cost under control. Bernie is now forcing them to spend more.
And its quite irrelevant whether the money is abhorrent, fine, or even great. Fact still is that when your workload gets raised from heavy to huge without much compensation or choise its not fair to be told to feel gratefull for that.
I think however that we will just stop this discussion, because you obviously see this differently.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 4:27
There are plenty of other jobs that have people away from their families. It’s a choice. 21 may be a bit harsh, but teams are more than welcome to bring in other engineers for some races to mix it up. They have crew size limits, but can use different crew. It’s up to the teams.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 9:50
And what if the teams are so tight on funds that they can’t afford it? Oh right, you didn’t think of that.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 11:43
Uh, yeah, I did. You think there are no more engineers at the factory?
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 12:48
OK, so now you want to make all those people sick because of stress too?
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
19th January 2016, 20:27
Also, the factory engineers are typically specialists in different areas from race-side engineers. So it still doesn’t solve the problem, given that they are up against teams who will have specialists in those roles (because there is no way that every team would agree to take a non-specialist rotation simultaneously) and teams can’t afford to give away that much of an advantage – even if they also can’t afford to hire a rotated specialist race crew.
@HoHum (@hohum)
18th January 2016, 1:18
Quite right, and this is why Jean Todt himself attends every race and practice session from beginning to end, even if we rarely see him.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 5:33
He runs the FIA, not F1, and would need to pay close attention to many racing series that the FIA control, so a cynical comment suggesting that he’s a hypocrite because he’s not at every race is absurd.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
18th January 2016, 9:13
He has 5 world-level series to look after, and unlike Max he is aware the other 4 exist. That’s before counting dozens of other series, plus a road safety element he takes very seriously. A typical weekend for Jean tends to include several events as a result, which may be why he finds it so difficult to understand the complaints teams relay from their engineers.
The difference is that Jean is one person, doing the job of one person, generally doing a job that is, if not 9 am – 5 pm, then at least something like 8 am – 8 pm (in terms of hours done – I’m sure the exact times move about a lot), who can defer anything he doesn’t want to do to lieutenants and can simply put his expenses on the FIA tab. These are not luxuries open to the typical F1 engineer, different people have different levels of travel endurance, and the teams are well aware that they have less latitude to increase their income (proportionately to expenditure) than the FIA does, should the work cost more than expected.
Mrugank Dongre
18th January 2016, 9:08
Like you know what a mechanic or an engineer has to go through before and every weekend, huh? For someone who has no idea whatsoever of what these mechanics and engineers go through, it is advised not to speak. Such people will only understand when it happens to themselves.
CashNotClass (@cashnotclass)
18th January 2016, 10:59
And yet F1 continues to roll around, visiting dozens of far-flung places as they go. Apparently it’s not all that bad.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 11:46
Yet someone who DOES understand, Jean Todt, who ran Ferrari for years, is criticized by people who don’t know for stating his opinion based on decades of in-team experience.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 0:58
Yes Jean, I’m sure all those hundreds of people are just itching to spend even more time away from their families and friends.
double_edge
18th January 2016, 1:26
If they don’t like it, move over and let someone who is actually passionate about the sport and considers themselves extremely lucky to be in the position take up that job.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
18th January 2016, 9:15
No amount of passion vaccinates for flu, exhaustion or relationship dramas requiring face-to-face resolutions…
Mr. X
18th January 2016, 2:48
It’s impossible for a post to appear on this website with out 80% of the comments being fans complaining. It’s what F1 fans do, complain above all else.
But this is just beyond belief. They aren’t soldiers, they aren’t slaves, there are no guns being out to thier heads.
Todt is 100% right and if you disagree you are 100% out of touch. End of.
Mike
18th January 2016, 5:16
You are complaining about complaints. You see this right?
Girts (@girts)
18th January 2016, 6:47
That is the point of F1 Fanatic – we have a place to discuss the news and rumours, express our happiness or anger about current events, praise the views and actions of the authorities, teams and drivers and also complain about them. Websites like this and F1 as a sport would have ceased to exist a long time ago if everyone, who’s unhappy about something, simply walked out the door.
John H (@john-h)
18th January 2016, 7:53
100%? Aside from the families, I’d argue that 21 is too many anyway as it takes away some of the suspense. It’s kind of like adding another grand slam in tennis, or another major in golf…the others start to seem less special.
I think 18 races is about right, with a focus on quality and not quantity for the long term health of F1. Unfortunately the infamous Bernie-Mosley deal prevents that kind of outlook.
Anyway, I see you’re argument, but saying he’s 100% right, end of, with no room for debate speaks volumes.
petebaldwin (@)
18th January 2016, 10:57
@john-h – I agree. There more races there are, the less each matters individually because everything is watered down. If you retire, it costs you a smaller percentage of the total points you’ll score in a year. If you make a daring overtake, it’ll gain you less overall.
If you only had 5 races, winning a race would represent a huge step towards winning the title. You would have scored a fifth of the maximum total anyone could score already! If you have 50 races, winning doesn’t mean as much – only a 50th of the maximum points available over the year. Why gamble on a last lap move if it’s not going to gain you that much?
The key phrase here though is “quality and not quantity.” I would rather 10 races that were competitive, unpredictable and exciting rather than 21 races of Mercedes controlling their tyres and strategising their drivers apart on the track with Verstappen providing the remainder of the entertainment!
Iestyn Davies (@fastiesty)
18th January 2016, 12:20
@john-h If there’s 21 races this year, it’ll probably be a high point for F1. It’s been said that team members are away for half the weekends next year (including e.g. testing). But Germany, Azerbaijan and maybe USA, Russia are on a shaky financial ground, with a lack of races in the running to replace them.
It’d be only 19 races, with Russia and USA staying, if the other two ran out of cash. Germany/Azerbaijan should probably alternate as the European GP (heh), giving 20 races. If one drops out, then there’s an opening for returning to e.g. France.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 11:53
It’s 1 more week than last year, with a longer mid-season break.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 12:49
Which means you have more travelling in less time. But hey, why care? I mean, it’s only people’s health at stake here; not like it’s anything important.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 13:22
Actually they’ve brought many races that are geographically close even closer together to reduce travel. Remember that much of the travel is within Europe, which is fast and easy. If anything the calender is less challenging for logistics than last year.
Robbie (@robbie)
18th January 2016, 14:43
@raceprouk While I do get that living out of a suitcase and being away from family can be stressful for some, I think you are taking this to an unnecessary extreme. You are almost making it sound like being on an F1 team is lethal.
A couple of thoughts…we are not really talking about 21 races here. They are already doing 18 or 19, and seemingly without huge issues that we are aware of, so we are actually just talking about 2 more races.
I’m sure many of the crew are well prepared and have their eyes fully wide open as to what the job entails, and see it as a great and exciting opportunity…for now. They know things can and do change on teams all the time, so probably don’t think this is their ‘burden’ for life. And they are as free to leave as they felt free to apply for the job to begin with. Many of them may have applied not just for the thrill and excitement and because they love cars and racing, but because they are also still young and without families and want to do this, knowing there’s a lot of away time, before they settle down to raise a family.
I also trust that the teams could easily take measures if they saw this as a problem, by ensuring crew has enough time off and even giving some a race weekend off if necessary for some to go recharge their batteries while giving some up and coming engineers etc a taste that they would probably relish greatly.
Again, I get your point but I don’t get the extreme lengths you’ve gone to make it. I doubt anyone on F1 teams are forced to do anything they can’t, or don’t agree, to handle. I’m sure teams, like all companies, have to allow for staff who have issues of all sorts that require compassion and understanding, and I’m sure they could work through doing a couple of more races a season. I doubt they are unprotected in their contracts from unhealthy work environments.
I don’t think they could or would ever be able to do much more than what they are proposing unless F1 were prepared for teams to rotate staff on a significant basis, but I don’t see it coming to that. They ultimately need to stop racing for a significant enough time to allow them to develop and build next year’s cars.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 14:47
OK, I admit, I may have gone a little overboard. At least you actually paid attention to what I was trying to say, unlike some who just ignore it as garbage.
Robbie (@robbie)
18th January 2016, 15:35
Lol no, not garbage at all. I know some people who have to travel to trade shows and/or to do business annually in Hong Kong, Germany, and New York and they told me years ago that it sounds exciting on paper but the novelty wore off really quickly, especially since they are there on business and don’t really get a chance to site-see like if it was a regular vacation. So I know it (F1 in this case) is not all about luxury and glamour for all involved, but nor is it, I’m sure, terrible. And what a great experience, like, I’m sure, for your brother. Sounds like he is doing something fascinating and challenging requiring some sacrifice, but no doubt with great personal reward too, I hope. Everything is a sacrifice really though. If we want to do one thing, it means we have decided on that thing over something else to put our time and energy into.
JackySteeg (@jackysteeg)
18th January 2016, 1:07
Although the pharse “Ivory Tower” springs to mind, I think Todt does have a point. I don’t think I’m alone in saying I’d give my right arm to be able to work for a team at Formula 1 races. Traveling all over the world working in a sport I love would be a dream job. But then again I don’t have a wife or kids that I’d be missing, so maybe I’m a bad example. But preparing a Formula 1 team for 21 weeks a year sounds a lot better than slogging away 5 days a week in some office job I have zero interest in.
Janet54321
18th January 2016, 11:50
@HoHum (@hohum)
18th January 2016, 1:14
Re the female ex CVC director, remember that it does not matter whether her accusations are true or not, this is an excellent opportunity to maximize financial gain and it would be immoral not to do so.
Mike
18th January 2016, 5:18
It does matter. That’s why we have rule of law.
Biggsy
18th January 2016, 11:45
Hahaha, I like your enthusiasm.
AmbroseRPM (@ambroserpm)
18th January 2016, 1:21
I do agree with Todt on one thing, it is a massive privilege to be involved with Formula One. It is something I for one want to do in the future.
Despite this people have their limits and families have their limits. Flying around the world every couple of weeks must be an extreme burden and would take a toil. They need to be taken care of, or these people will suffer, along with their relatives, friends, children and spouses. Is 21 races too much? I would think it is on the absolute limit.
Mr. X
18th January 2016, 2:50
Plenty of career paths that will keep them home. Quite a few would pay better as well.
Complain = leave.
Wish more fans would follow those principals.
William Jones
18th January 2016, 8:16
And I assume we’ll hear no complaints from you as F1 turns into amateur hour with all the talent leaving for other industries, pushed out by terrible working conditions and an unwillingness for anyone to change that, like the aerospace industry which brought all that professionalism into F1 in the first place…
Mr. X
18th January 2016, 10:07
Define terrible working conditions in relation to say, raw mineral miners working in Africa to provide materials for these “aerospace” engineer to work with. then these aerospace engineers complain because they are away from their families for under 100 days a year. Please, tell that African miner about how hard life is. Maybe in 5 yrs when he’s paid off his debt he’ll be able to afford to return to his home and find his family (assuming they haven’t been forced into another form of slave labor). once he’s home he can tell his family about the grand machines these over worked aerospace engineers created to go around in circles so that over privileged westerners can complain about it via silicon based technology. I’m sure he and his family will create a shrine and pray for the poor family of these ‘aerospace’ engineers and that their temple of circle racing system does not collapse due to them being over worked.
Todt was right. End of.
CashNotClass (@cashnotclass)
18th January 2016, 11:05
Where are these ‘terrible working conditions’ you speak of? For the better part of two decades F1 has been going to places that build pitboxes and other facilities even grander than the previous latest and greatest.
Like here, in Abu Dhabi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BToiyPRsQ
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 12:52
Yes, just ignore the hundreds of hours of flying in economy seats, the frequent timezone changes screwing with circadian rhythms, and exposure to a much wider variety of pathogens.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 13:33
@raceprouk You should have a closer look at the schedule. Many races are close to each other and don’t require travelling ‘hundreds of hours’ or require massive changes to the body clock, as they are in the same or very similar timezones for two, three, four races at a time. Sometimes they even drive to the next race when in Europe. And Texas to Mexico and Singapore to Malaysia ain’t far.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 13:36
I see. Some races are close together, so that makes everything perfectly fine. Because instead of hundreds of hours flying, there’s hundreds of hours flying and driving.
But hey, it’s not like we’re talking about anything important like people’s health, so yeah, do whatever.
montreal95 (@montreal95)
18th January 2016, 14:46
@raceprouk Look, you have your opinion, well understood. You think 21 races is terrible and F1 people are such poor souls. Allow me to say: “cry me a river”. While I wouldn’t mind if there were 19 or 20 races instead of 21 ,which seems to be like some red cloth for you, the facts are simple: There are literally billions of people in the world in a much worse position than F1 people. From health and safety point of view especially. even not going to third world, or some of the more hazardous occupations in the west, do you know the conditions the doctors work in, the shift hours they pull in, especially in the winter months, the diseases etc? Yet, they chose to become doctors because of the prestige and the passion they have for medicine. Their families suffer too on a daily basis, more than F1 people’s families. And that’s just one example
Your passion for being in F1 has become less important to you than being with your family year round? Go and do something else. No one’s holding you. But don’t cry that you’ve got the worst profession in the world and that it’s some kind of a natural disaster to go up from 20 races to 21. Most people won’t symphatize with that and such a theory won’t stand up to even the basic scrutiny
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 11:52
Yeah, like there’s going to be a shortage of people desperate to get into f1.
petebaldwin (@)
18th January 2016, 10:40
You wish more fans would follow that principal? I don’t think there would still be an “F1” if fans gave up when they didn’t like something about F1!!!!
zimkazimka (@zimkazimka)
18th January 2016, 4:30
I have to say, I kinda agree with Todd here. Indeed it must be tough to be away from home for such extended periods of time, but working conditions change all the time in real world. Same in Formula 1. There used to be much fewer races in a championship before and it must have been tough for the staff to get used to expanding calendar. But as with every job out there, you have the option to keep going or find something else, with droves of talent in line eager to take your place. Especially so in Formula 1- the very top of motorsport ladder.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 5:36
If they don’t want to do it I’m happy to take their place. Just need an engineering degree…
markp
18th January 2016, 10:41
Me to. Anything that is at an elite level requires commitment and sacrifice well above what normal people are subjected to. To moan at the time they spend away makes no sense in my opinion as they are doing an elite job and so the rules of normal 9 to 5 workers does not apply. Other high paid industries also have extreme working hours with time away from family and friends, look at city traders or doctors, oil workers for example.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 11:48
And the tens of thousands of people in the shipping industry who are often away for 6 months or more at a time, straight.
markp
18th January 2016, 12:41
Soldiers on a tour of duty in Afghanistan or Iraq, paid far less and have to miss the birth of a child where in F1 they would likely get dispensation for this all. 21 race complaint is crazy the world has gone soft.
Simon (@weeniebeenie)
18th January 2016, 2:44
You know that game your parents played with you as a kid, “You’re hitting yourself”? It feels like those in charge of F1 are constantly playing that game.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
18th January 2016, 10:28
@weeniebeenie Ah, the Nelson Muntz book of parenting…
Sumedh
18th January 2016, 5:43
I have to agree with Todt here. 21 races is a privilege. In fact, the more the better. I also believe, economically it will be more sustainable. The marginal costs of going to a 21st race are surely less than the excess money earned due to ticket sales, TV coverage and possible extra income from sponsors (as they all get extra exposure). Economies of scale certainly exist in Formula One and adding extra races will help teams extract the maximum potential of the same.
Also, races will tend to be more exciting I feel. Take Hungarian Grand Prix of last year for example. A brilliant race that transpired largely because many drivers made mistakes. If we increase number of races, the drivers will tend to be more tired and are likely to commit mistakes increasing the unpredictability of the sport as well.
petebaldwin (@)
18th January 2016, 10:38
It’s easy to say “there should be 21 races” when the result of this decision is you have to sit on your sofa and watch a race for an additional weekend.
The problem is where does it stop? I remember the same debate over 20 races and now we’re at 21. Is 22 too much? 30? 40?
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 11:11
@petebaldwin Well, if we say F1 season start from March and ends in October or early November with average of a race every 2 week, few back-to-back races and summer break, I think 20 +/- 2 races per season is ideal number. So its between 18-22 races. I think more importantly is to arrange the back-to-back races more efficiently, especially for farthest one. On top of my head is Singapore/Malaysian GP, and US (Texas)/Mexican GP.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
18th January 2016, 6:03
“I would have liked to have seen Williams opt to go with the Honda engine, I think Honda are going to fight back.”
Oh really? Is that because of all the success McLaren has had in 2015? In 2016 they can be very happy if they finish in the points more often and maybe if they are lucky enough they can snatch another fifth…
W-K (@w-k)
18th January 2016, 6:12
I’ll go controversial on this and say I think there should be a lot more races per year. Half the problem at the moment is that the teams fly home between races, so in some cases they do two long flights. If there were more races and the order arranged by global position, the next nearest location. Then in half the cases they could drive between locations. I mean have you looked at the distance between Spa and the Nurburgring, (to save you looking 107 km).
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
18th January 2016, 9:19
Race promoters are against that because it cuts into their tickets a lot (people have enough trouble paying for two races several months apart, let alone on consecutive weekends). This extends to the point where promoters happily pay a lot extra to keep away from weekends where nearby venues hold Grands Prix. As FOM controls the calendar and is in turn controlled by profit motive, money wins over sequential scheduling.
W-K (@w-k)
18th January 2016, 21:39
I don’t go along with that idea, for two reasons. Before I retired I was very restricted in holidays and time off, it would have been almost impossible to attend races two weeks apart and even more impossible if distance between them was large. Races close together by date and physically would have suited me as the best option.
And the other case is for those who can afford and have the time to attend as many races as they wish, distance has no bearing on their choice, it is either a “be seen at race” or “not”.
maarten.f1 (@)
18th January 2016, 6:17
The way Todt puts it is a bit harsh, he’s not there every weekend, he doesn’t have a young family to raise, so he’s not affected as much. But in the end, if you work in Formula 1, it means you’re going to be away from your family and loved ones a lot. It’s a choice you make, a selfish choice if you will. Just like being a racer having a family: he or she takes a large risk despite being a husband/dad/wife/mother, a choice he or she makes.
My dad used to work as an onboard engineer on towing boats, and he’d be gone for months (up to half a year) at the time. It comes with the job and you know it. It’s just one of those jobs. Like being a traveling salesman, they’re gone a lot too.
As for having 21 races, I’d rather have more quality than quantity.
Girts (@girts)
18th January 2016, 6:27
I do not really like Todt’s arguments. By that logic, Todt himself should not complain about expensive engines or Ferrari’s veto rights because children in Africa are starving and Todt should be happy that he does not need to worry about where to get food and clean water.
I have always believed that F1 is about dedication and that you always have to pay for the good or special things in your life, one way or another. But everything has its limit. Let us assume that 21 races are still OK but where does it stop? Maybe F1 people should not be allowed to spend any time with their families or have families at all? You have to draw the line somewhere. That is why this discussion is necessary and why I love F1PP’s article about “the privileged few”.
Mr. X
18th January 2016, 10:14
Or we can let nature take its course.
These teams are fortunately run by really intelligent people (on average) and they have a business side of things as well.
Usually business is pretty good at handling things like ‘cost challenges’. I wonder if they could possibly come up with a solution that allowed 21+ races. I don’t know maybe 2 race teams trading every other race? That’s just the low hanging fruit but you get my point.
Let the smarts figure out the solutions before we start banging bones together and screaming.
petebaldwin (@)
18th January 2016, 10:34
@girts – Out of interest, does anyone know if Todt will be attending all sessions of all 21 of the races? I would love to but I’m not lucky enough to have the opportunity to attend every race – I assume someone as lucky and privileged as Jean Todt therefore will?
CashNotClass (@cashnotclass)
18th January 2016, 11:08
By ‘all’ race do you mean all F1 races? That alone misunderstands the position Todt has. He is not the CEO of F1. He is the president of the FIA. The FIA oversees a lot more than just 21 races a year.
Mr. X
18th January 2016, 21:30
you have to love when “f1 fans” reveal their true colors that they have clue…..
Mr. X
18th January 2016, 21:30
..er… NO clue i meant.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 11:25
@petebaldwin Remember Todt is also ex manager of Ferrari so he not someone who never attends every race per season (although in his time it varies between 16-19 races). But then again, there is a 85 year old man who attends every F1 races since 1970’s and he’s actually the most eager person to add more races to the calendar!
Biggsy
18th January 2016, 12:00
@sonicslv If you had a family as lovely as Bernie’s, you’d want to be away from home as much as possible, too! :)
Sonics (@sonicslv)
18th January 2016, 14:52
On the contrary I would like to be in home as much as possible because they’re going everywhere but home ;)
BasCB (@bascb)
20th January 2016, 7:43
Bernie has not attended all races for years now @sonicslv. For example when he complained about the sound of the cars after Melbourne 2014, he himself pointed out to having not heard them live yet.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
20th January 2016, 12:39
@bascb He’s there most of the times though. And he seems travelling a lot more per year than your average F1 engineers.
BasCB (@bascb)
20th January 2016, 13:37
As far as I know he only visits when races are new, when it’s monaco, Singapore, when he is tying it in with talks about a deal or when its a race like Russia, Abu Dhabi etc where the local despots pay premium rate to be seen with him @sonicslv.
Girts (@girts)
18th January 2016, 15:15
@petebaldwin I am pretty sure that he attends only selected F1 races but he has a lot of other appointments so that is probably not the point. However, I believe that he (or the FIA) has a private jet and that he can also afford luxury accommodation. I imagine that travelling is not as comfortable for the “privileged” team staff, media and similar people.
What is the point of those extra races anyway? Do more races mean bigger TV audiences (on average)? No. Is F1 too focused on certain areas to be called a world championship? Not really and it is not like FOM care about that as there is still no race in Africa. Does F1 lack income? I do not think so and the distribution of that income is a different story. Basically FOM just want more money and sponsors want more exposure. While F1 is meant to be exhausting, people should not be pushed beyond their limits just to make the rich even richer.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
19th January 2016, 20:41
Todt’s job involves doing a sample of many different series. So he’s not really allowed to do every F1 race if he’s following his job description, however much Mosley ignored that part of his brief and however much he got away with it.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
18th January 2016, 6:30
Yes, I like the comment of the day.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
18th January 2016, 7:25
Well, why wasn’t some sort of “transmission cut out” and “brakes locked on” switch fitted that activates when the bowser hose is attached to the car e.g. a microswitch attached to the body work “flip lid” covering over the fuel tank lid? Massa couldn’t have driven off if a system like that was fitted to the car. At the very least it should be mandatory to have been warning lights on the dashboard and visible to the pit crew to say the refueling hose was attached to the car. It’s the same technology as used on a car to indicate one of the doors hasn’t be shut properly. If teams chose not to fit some sort of safety system to their car when the refueling hose is attached, then whose fault is that? It is so logical that it shouldn’t have to even be mandatory, but apparently it isn’t logical, so a rule will have to be made.
Also, why not have one standard refueling time, e.g. 13 seconds. Then the pit crew aren’t under pressure to be that 1/10 second faster than the next team. So when the car is being refueled then it has to be stationary for that set amount of time. If everyone has to comply with the same amount of time then teams aren’t actually using the refueling process as part of the race. Refueling, if it goes wrong, can be very dangerous (as well as embarrassing). Many countries have health and safety laws, and F1 is loosing popularity, so it will be harder to get an exemption for an unsafe practice, so if refueling is brought back in then it have to comply with the health and safety regulations in every country. That means mandatory transmission disable, mandatory brakes locked on, mandatory 13 second stationary times when the car is being refueled.
Gigantor (@kbdavies)
18th January 2016, 10:56
I think Johnny’s been on a bit of the other Johnny here…attempting to rewrite history. Massa did not lose anything because his refueling hose got stuck or what not. He was beaten to the Championship – despite being gifted a race win in Spa. Maybe Johnny will blame the tires Glock had on next time.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
18th January 2016, 10:08
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12476/10134114/damon-hill-feels-williams-should-swap-mercedes-engines-for-honda
This one is good. While Hill suggests Williams should go with Honda, I tend to not agree, atleast until Honda is competitive. Unlike McLaren Williams does not have a super lucrative road car business to fall back on in case they make 0 money at the back of the grid.
Taking on the Title fight for last many many years was all about colossal expenditure. Privateer teams are best of doing a sensible job at midfield and Williams is doing that better than anyone else. Title is about 200M€ extra per year for several years away from them.
Williams right now seems to have a good sound plan in place and Mercedes engine seem to deliver great results for them. From 2014 they are a genuine frontrunning team on mid team budget.
What can Honda give them? Same competitivness in 2-3 years? What do they tell the sponsors for a few years?
Can they better Mercedes in this form? Very likely not. Can They fight off Red Bull? Yes. Force India free fight, Toro Rosso? No problem. Renault? For sure.
With Mercedes atleast for next year they are competing for top 3.
With Honda, they drop back 3-5 spots, not a good prospect for team on a budget.
Neil (@neilosjames)
18th January 2016, 10:08
Thanks for the caption comp win, Keith! Loved Ready_Amy_Fire and Philip’s (but I guess the latter might have been ‘outside the white lines’ for some…)
Matt Clark (@mattc888)
18th January 2016, 16:36
Your comment was a cracker ;D
Abrams25
18th January 2016, 11:20
Nascar have 36 race, so 21 race in year with 52 weeks in year it is not a problem.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 12:53
In one country.
In 21 countries.
See the difference?
Selbbin (@selbbin)
18th January 2016, 13:28
I’d hardly say that moving from Spain to Monaco is stressful, or from Hungry to Germany to Belgium to Italy in an area much smaller than the US. It’s really not very far. Or from Austin to Mexico. Or singapore to Malaysia to Japan. These aren’t exactly huge long-haul flights and differing timezones like you claim. Some can be driven by car, and often are. The blocks are actually very well planned.
RaceProUK (@)
18th January 2016, 23:39
If you really believe that an eight-hour drive is nothing, then you’ve clearly never had to drive that far, otherwise you’d know just how draining it really is.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
19th January 2016, 5:28
Between four people, it’s a piece of cake. And I live in Australia. We know what driving far actually is. Try 18 hours straight on corrugated dirt roads to get to a mine site for work.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
19th January 2016, 20:45
Also, the NASCAR culture is set up so that lots of paddock people bring their families with them. A combination of prevalent low-budget motorhomes (albeit generally used by drivers and higher-waged people) and many, many cheap hotels make it at least plausible for couples and small families to follow the circus. Many people don’t, even with the 36 races… …but the very fact the option exists helps reduce the psychological stresses involved for the families (and, to a lesser extent, the paddock people themselves).
It’s too expensive for F1 to follow suit – it costs a lot of money to follow F1 round its calendar, as the handful of people who’ve done it as fans will tell you.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
18th January 2016, 11:37
So everyone agreeing with Todt wouldn’t have a problem if their work hours and travel were increased arbitrarily with no compensation? You’d just agree because you love your job and its a privilege?
I don’t know ther terms of the team members contracts but I can only assume that they would specify a salary, conditions etc. and I doubt that all that many teams would have anticipated a 21 race calendar.
The additional hours, travel, away from home time may well not have been accounted for so in effect it’s concievable that the staff member’s hours have increased, conditions decreased and they’re obliged to ” do more work for effectively less compensation” – not too many people I know volunteer to do that.
If the teams have to compensate their staff accordingly it’s yet another increase to costs that will already strain a lot of team budgets.
So yes – Todt is in my opinion being a little short sighted with his ill thought out comments.
Asanator (@asanator)
18th January 2016, 15:37
you know what they say about assumptions…
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
18th January 2016, 14:40
I think those agreeing with Jean Todt on 21 or more races not been a problem should perhaps try living that life themselves before claiming that its no big problem because by saying that its perfectly clear that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
The crew guys fly out on the Tuesday/Wednesday & pretty much immediately have to get started on setting up the motorhome, The garages & building the cars which usually isn’t all done until very late Thursday. They have to be up very early on Friday to prepare the cars for FP1 & they are at the track late checking over the cars before repeating the same on Saturday & Sunday with the added workload of tearing everything down & packing everything up way into Sunday night.
For the back to back races its straight to the next race to repeat the process & even for non back to back races there is not much time to see your family because its usually straight to the team factory to check over the cars & get everything ready for the next race, practice pit stops & other procedures etc..
That doesn’t even begin to give an idea of the stress & pressure involved because if something goes wrong during a race weekend you have to have your procedures down, You have to know how to strip the cars down as quickly as possible to fix the problem, rebuild crash damage or be immediately ready for a late call for a pit stop.
The pit lane crew have to practice almost endlessly to ensure the pit stop procedure is as good as it can be & to keep themselves sharp so that they are ready for any situation & to ensure there is as little possibility for error as possible. And there is of course the danger which add’s to the stress levels.
markp
18th January 2016, 15:32
Niki Lauda is an old man and he will be at all the races, so will the journalists and they have families, I bet Ted Kravitz would tell me where to stick it if I offered to swap jobs. There is no doubt extra races will be tough I just do not believe it will be to the point of breaking people. Some seem to go to extremes and giving worst case scenarios, I believe the truth is it will be more stressful but manageable.
GT Racer (@gt-racer)
19th January 2016, 13:45
The team bosses like Niki Lauda & the people in the media have a much easier time than the mechanics because they don’t work the hours & tend to arrive at the circuit later & leave sooner.
The team bosses tend not to fly out to the race Until the Thursday afternoon or evening, Some even don’t arrive until the Friday morning by which point the mechanics have been there 2-3 days setting everything up. And while the mechanics fly economy the team principals either fly 1st class, use private jets or have their own planes so fly themselves (As Niki does I believe).
Melvin (@)
19th January 2016, 10:41
The only people who benefit from 21 races are the ones are the ones who can sit back, watch the race, watch the money roll in and drink champagne. We all know the reason is simple greed. To get as much money as possible. And trying to justify that by saying that people are lucky to have the strenuous life we force on them, so they can make more money for us is showing a lot of disrespect for the guys.