In the round-up: Ross Brawn has signed a deal with Liberty Media to take over F1 after Bernie Ecclestone, according to Sport Bild.
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Exklusiv: Brawn beerbt Ecclestone (Auto Bild - German)
Ross Brawn has signed a contract with Liberty Media to take over as Bernie Ecclestone's successor.
Pirelli encouraged as prototypes show improvements in 'raceable' 2017 tyres (BBC)
"Isola said the most recent test, using a Red Bull car in Abu Dhabi earlier this month, had been 'quite encouraging'."
Wolff criticises Verstappen's aggression (Autosport)
"As refreshing as it is, and how ruthless the great ones are, if you race the championship leader three races to the end, wheel banging is not what should happen."
F1 legend Niki Lauda slams Max Verstappen for being ‘stupid’ and ‘arrogant’ (The Sun)
"Nico clearly was in front and Verstappen rams him off the track. This could have cost Nico the championship. This is not acceptable."
Vettel rage due to Ferrari frustration, say rivals (Reuters)
"Trust me, I would say twice as much. But I do, a lot of the time, wait and maybe say a few things to myself and press the radio button."
Lewis Hamilton vows not to give up in title fight with Nico Rosberg (Sky)
"I don't think you can prepare to lose, but I've experienced it before. I lost in 2007, I know it won't be as painful as then, and I've lost many races, I've lost championships through my career so it's not like I haven't experienced it."
Christian Horner expects Sebastian Vettel to be reprimanded for radio rant (ESPN)
"It is not an attribute that he had when he drove for us. Obviously his frustration is vocalising, and everyone can hear that."
Arrivabene: Raikkonen asked for strategy switch (F1i)
"He said the tyres were gone and our strategy with Kimi was equal to the one of Seb, but he was asking and complaining about the tyre status and then we changed immediately the strategy and pitted him."
Hulkenberg says stewards 'bent the rules' for Hamilton at Turn 1 (Motorsport)
"Had there been a gravel trap or a wall, he would've been in deep trouble. So I don't know, it seems they bent the rule there a bit today."
F1 continues to frustrate and confuse with bizarre rulings (USA Today)
"You wouldn’t trust Formula One with a loaded gun, because it would be sure to shoot itself in the foot."
Living in interesting times (The Way It Is)
"Another matter for Malone and Liberty Media to address is that F1 needs to put on a more competitive show if it's to thrive in America which means fielding more quality teams and cars. Like it or not, NASCAR sets the standard with a thundering field of forty cars and more than twenty teams. F1 will have to head more in that direction if it's to build a serious following in America."
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Social media
Notable posts from Twitter, Instagram and more:
The VET move yesterday, in the past it was called "racecraft". Nowadays it's forbidden. Did we go too far?
— Marco Schuepbach (@mschupbach34) October 31, 2016
Very happy and proud of my race yesterday. My best one in F1 so far. And soooo close to that first point of the year pic.twitter.com/A6C9fg8phS
— Marcus Ericsson (@Ericsson_Marcus) October 31, 2016
It so sad that we are losing race craft with rules. A squeeze that seb did on @danielricciardo is out lawed.
— Johnny herbert (@johnnyherbertf1) October 31, 2016
Liking this Verstappen/Vettel spat. More please.
— chris harris (@harrismonkey) October 31, 2016
Amazing what you find when digging through our old stock of parts! #Benetton #Oldschool #Art #Nocomputers #F1 pic.twitter.com/TT6JdihNSN
— HeritageF1 (@HeritageF1) October 31, 2016
- Find more official F1 accounts to follow in the F1 Twitter Directory
Comment of the day
An intriguing coincidence is possible if Nico Rosberg wins the championship this year:
If Rosberg becomes champion him and his father will match the Hills’ 34-year difference between championship wins.
Martin
From the forum
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Joe Jones, Rits and Tara!
If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is via the contact form or adding to the list here.
mfreire
1st November 2016, 0:09
Verstappen is 19. Beliefs of being invincible and invulnerable is normal at that age. That’s really why he drives like he does. But he is also tacky, like his dad…
Smurfler
1st November 2016, 20:58
Following your logic Vettel’s dad has to be a foulmouthed spoiled brat…..(Maybe he is, but you and I don’t know.)
Please keep this amateur psychology to yourself, it has no place on F1 forums.
Smurfler
1st November 2016, 21:03
Just realized that you actually might know him, so sorry for assuming you don’t.
Tristan
1st November 2016, 0:28
Think we need a more solid source on that than Auto Bild? Would be grouse if true, not holding my breath though. At least not as a direct replacement, it has been oft-mentioned that Ecclestones nous is likely to need more than successor.
Calling Vettel’s move “race-craft” is a bit of a joke, no? The cited rules he came a crop of have been in the regulations for longer than the Verstappen-rule regardless. It was a truly dangerous move made under the blind rage of the situation. It was apparent an incident would have ensued had Ricciardo not taken avoiding action – Vettel simply was not going to lose that position.
Is it what we want to see? Maybe… But for it to be punished is certainly the correct course in my opinion. Regardless, the precedent has been set with no moving under braking, let’s see if this is a standard the stewards are able to live up to (not holding my breath on that either).
The Duke
1st November 2016, 0:47
RIC on RAI in Monte Carlo, now that was race craft!
Markp
1st November 2016, 13:44
Yes thankyou. Ricciardo on Raikkonen at Monaco was unbelievable. Vettel used to get away with dodgy things at Red Bull. Must be a Red Bull thing. If Ricciardo or max ever drive at Ferrari or anyone else they will start racking up the penalties.
@HoHum (@hohum)
1st November 2016, 0:58
Yes, it’s an interesting subject, where exactly do you draw the line? I wan’t to see proper battles with drivers skilled at both attacking and defending, but spare me from having to watch the kind of performance Massa gave us in Mexico (and many other GPs) where both drivers lose massive amounts of time because 1 is determined not to let the other by at any cost. On the bright side I am glad to see more attention paid to drivers taking short cuts to avoid being passed, I still fume over memories of the Hulk back in his Williams days driving straight through the chicane lap after lap, everytime Webber got inside him in the braking zone, and gaining half a second or so each time without being punished. As Churchill said, “you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.”
@HoHum (@hohum)
1st November 2016, 1:03
PS.Regarding defending at any cost, I should have said “except when defending a win or podium”.
Mike (@mike)
1st November 2016, 4:49
Why the disparity?
@HoHum (@hohum)
1st November 2016, 22:01
@mike, If you are out in front it doesn’t matter how slow you go as long as you stay in front, however if you are midfield or worse and you lose time lap after lap defending against a faster car you are getting further and further away from the cars ahead of you, so you will not be in a position to take advantage of a mistake or slow pit-stop made by cars ahead that you may have been able to pass had you kept in contact, on top of that cars are extra vulnerable and mistake prone when defending against a faster car, better to be the one following through than the one losing out.@graham228221,@keithedin.
Mike (@mike)
2nd November 2016, 6:57
Ah, I took defending at any cost to be referring to driving standards, rather than effort. My mistake.
graham228221 (@graham228221)
1st November 2016, 6:28
What? Drivers should just pull over if they’re holding someone else up? Unless they’re in the top 3?
@hohum that is the stupidest thing I’ve read all year.
Andy
1st November 2016, 8:30
+1 They were “racing”. It’s what happens in a “car race”. If the car behind wants the position they they should overtake. If they can’t overtake then they don’t deserve the position. Simple.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
1st November 2016, 16:29
The race position shouldn’t matter when deciding whether to defend or not. What matters is whether the defending driver can realistically expect to hold that position until the end of the race. In this case Massa was perfectly entitled to defend if he wanted to, but it didn’t seem very smart to me unless he could hold Vettel for the entire race, which was going to be pretty much impossible. I think that’s why Vettel was frustrated, because it just cost them both a lot of time with no benefit to either.
Massa seems to do this quite a lot I feel, I remember his very strange strategy in Monaco staying out on the wrong tyres and holding up a bunch of people (hulk, Ros, can’t remember the others). It ruined all their races as they all got jumped by Perez and Alonso at the stops.
Smurfler
1st November 2016, 19:52
There was a time when backmarkers were yelled at, or even fired, by team bosses for letting people pass to easily when being lapped.
I do miss those times, but hey, times change and I can kinda live with it
But when the time comes what you suggest becomes reality I will stop watching F1.
It’s a competition,they all drive to finish as high as possible and they are allowed to follow their own strategy, realistic or not.
As long as they don’t ram each other deliberately off track it’s fine by me.
(For some reason Vitaly Petrov comes to mind…)
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
1st November 2016, 10:12
What’s wrong with Auto Bild?
Tristan
1st November 2016, 11:18
Don’t know to be honest, just parroting what I’ve read elsewhere in the past. I think Mark Webber forums had something against them back in the day… Thinking about it now, probably just a touch biased :)
Jason
1st November 2016, 0:40
Having brawn succeed Bernie sound too good to be true, like an early Christmas present….
petebaldwin (@)
1st November 2016, 11:37
I’ll believe it when I see it but Brawn taking over from Ecclestone is arguably the most positive thing to happen to F1 in the last 20 years. This is absolutely historic if true and the first clear sign that Liberty are going to improve the sport.
We’re going from someone who appears to hate motorsport and loves only money to someone who I believe, genuinely wants what is best for the sport.
mystic one (@mysticus)
1st November 2016, 13:44
I mean its not even April 1st yet, how can they bring an angel in place of the devil…
One side, an engineer, with passion for sport and good image of the rest, and on the other, an egomaniac with passion for his pocket and his pocket only, and has no respect for anyone but himself around!
I hope this is real and i dont need to pinch myself to wake up
spoutnik (@spoutnik)
1st November 2016, 1:01
If that Ross Brawn takeover story is confirmed it will be a massive improvement compared to Bernie. Not that I expect miracles but at least a more decent person at that position will be refreshing.
beneboy (@beneboy)
1st November 2016, 1:25
@spoutnik
He’d be at the top of my list of candidates for Bernie’s job, although I’d guess Liberty would want his responsibilities split between a few people, with Ross being the public face of the company and the buffer between the teams and FIA.
If he gets the job, I hope he will do well, there’s plenty of big issues to deal with, and with his experience from working in several teams, and his working relationship with Todt, he could be one of the few people with the ability to solve some of them.
The Duke
1st November 2016, 1:36
I’d imagine being the public face of F1 is the last thing Ross would care about.
Setting up the technical regulations to take the sport into the next 20 years is what Liberty need and want, expect minimum 10years ownership.
Ross would be the man for that challenge.
Mike (@mike)
1st November 2016, 4:50
Bernie doesn’t set the technical regulations.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
1st November 2016, 6:01
He gets 33% vote on regulations.
ColdFly F1 (@)
1st November 2016, 5:02
He should take Todt’s job then!
mfreire
1st November 2016, 4:32
Absolutely. Brawn has always been one of the most level-headed big-decision making people in Formula One over the last 20 or so years (he started out in the Williams wind tunnel in the late 1970’s and designed cars from that time to circa 1995; that period of his life doesn’t really matter in this context). His methodical approach is probably what Liberty are looking for in terms of stability; it would be contrasting to Ecclestone’s chaotic and impulsive entrepeneurial approach (quoting Brawn in an article), which probably is frightening Liberty a bit.
sunny stivala
1st November 2016, 5:27
when and if MR E is gone most of formula one problems will follow him out the door.
mystic one (@mysticus)
1st November 2016, 13:49
it is almost like Cinderella story of finding her shoe in the end despite the evil mom’s best efforts :) almost cried :) well when she finds and wear the other pair of the shoes i will…
Todfod (@todfod)
1st November 2016, 15:20
Agree. Ross Brawn knows the sport inside out. From a technical and sporting point of view, there couldn’t be a better man for the job. If he has the right team with him to handle Marketing and Commercial rights, I think he would usher in a great era for the sport.
Ian Bond (@ianbond001)
1st November 2016, 1:01
About Wolff pointing out that it is wrong racing a championship contender so vigurously a few races from the end of the season. I agree 100%.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
1st November 2016, 1:11
I couldn’t disagree more, @ianbond001 The championship leader should be just another competitor. We’re talking about a driver that was running 3rd and wanted 2nd place, not a guy that was being lapped. Why shouldn’t he race Rosberg hard, as he’d race any other guy?
What does Wolff want after all? his drivers to compete completely alone? create a standalone championship for them then! just imagine if they were racing for the win. Why wouldn’t Verstappen or any other race as hard as possible for a win?
Then we will have situations like Spa 2012, when Grosjean was banned for a race because he caused an incident that “took out several championship contenders”, instead of being penalized because it was a stupid incident.
The fact that Verstappen was racing a championship leader should have no influence over the legality of his moves.
Ian Bond (@ianbond001)
1st November 2016, 1:22
@fer-no65
Spa was mid season. this was not. I think that every driver on the grid should take extra care not to put one of those two out of a race. Max tried twice in a race.
He pushed a championship contender off the track in the first corner, he then dived on his inside and Nico had to carefully avoid the hot head teen. What is he trying to do? He is not in the championship fight, his team has all but secured 2nd, he’s been outclassed by his team mate on and off track … sometimes i think he does it out of spite: “if he can’t have that position no one will”.
Also notice how when Max is involved into a wheel to wheel someone always ends up off the track or worst while the other ones can race sooo hard and close and yet give each other space. Even Seb after being naughty and moving under braking gave Daniel all the space he could and they both stayed on the track.
The only thing Max can accomplished in the rest of the season is to get Carlos Sainz into a RedBull next year!
favomodo (@favomodo)
1st November 2016, 7:53
“always” sounds a bit like trolling. Verstappen had several clean wheel tot wheel actions this year (and last year). Brazil 2015 on Perez, Silverstone on Rosberg, Monza on Hulkenberg and Malaysia on Ricciardo to name a few, but there are several more.
Maddme
1st November 2016, 10:59
I remember another young (for the time) head headed driver, who carried out reckless and dirty manoeuvres on track… He went on to become a 7 time WDC…
Markp
1st November 2016, 13:48
Senna invented dirty driving, Schumacher was influenced, i thought Hamilton would take this up but he is very fair. Its taken a generation but Max os taking up from Schumacher. Senna started it but if Max goes on to do what those 2 did in their careers in terms of wins then…..
drmouse (@drmouse)
1st November 2016, 16:08
I completely disagree.
Yes, Rosberg is so close to a WDC he can taste it, and he will (or probably should) be more careful because of it. 3rd place is better than a DNF for him.
For Verstappen, he has no WDC in sight, and all he wants is to finish as high as possible. A DNF would not be a disaster for him. He is obviously going to take more chances than Rosberg, and probably more against Rosberg than anyone else (as Rosberg is more likely to give him the space, given that he has so much to lose).
There is no valid reason, from his point of view, for Verstappen to give Rosberg any special treatment just because he is the WDC leader.
Ian Bond (@ianbond001)
1st November 2016, 1:27
Again, my opinion is not based on what is legal or not on track; above that i think there should be a sportsmanship behaviour. It’s that that i think Max does not care about and won’t listen.
He may be fast and racy but he lost all my sympathy in half a year; you can not keep thinking and shouting you are right and all the other drivers are wrong. I think he’s a fool.
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 2:25
@ianbond001 I agree with you about Verstappen in general, but disagree about Wolff’s comment. All drivers must race all drivers hard irrespective of their WDC or their teams WCC positions at all races of the year. Anything else is detrimental to the interests of the sport. Where does it end? Next Force India will tell someone that they shouldn’t race them hard because they’re in a close fight with Williams for those tens of millions of $. Ridiculous. Same as no one in his right mind would ask a mid-table football team close to the end of the season not to play hard against a team fighting for the Championship, so shouldn’t Toto say stupid things like that. In fact it’s a criminal offence to try and influence a football team not to play hard against you and in F1 as in any sport it should be the same. Wolff should at the very least apologize and be fine and put on probation by the FIA for such talk
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 5:03
I think Toto is expressing his understanding that Max is there to race…it just needn’t and shouldn’t involve wheel banging such as what went on with one of only two candidates for the Championship. I like how folks here are defending Max like it is his right to whack a guy at all, let alone he could have decided the WDC with that aggression, being on Nico.
Did Toto ask for his drivers to be left alone? Of course not. Would Force India ask a team not to race them so they can compete better with Williams? Just as ridiculous. How about this…don’t bang cars off tracks with wheel to wheel barging…on anybody…let alone the WDC contenders. Ok? You’ll just as easily take yourself out of the race, and you might decide the championship whole you’re at it…for what?
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
1st November 2016, 7:32
@fer-no65 I agree he should treat them like any other driver, so whether it was Rosberg or the Pope himself don’t try mindless divebombs,…
bosyber (@bosyber)
1st November 2016, 8:02
That’s also my preference @xtwl, @fer-no65, battle everyone, but in such a manner that your competitors can stay on track, and whole, in the race. Occasional wheel-banging and the like might occur, but it should not be the norm.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 4:00
@ianbond001 – if Toto had such a concern, they should have used the super-softs in Q2 so Rosberg and Hamilton could have got away from the Red Bulls and the rest of the pack, as a tactical move.
Instead, they went all strategic, so should have known a passing attempt would be made.
Max as an individual might want to tone the aggression down a bit in certain places (the ROS-VES lap 1 incident being an example), but that behaviour/courtesy should extend to any of his competitors, not just the championship contenders.
Championship contenders have the pressure of deciding if they want to get into a specific squabble or not. If you recall Spa this year where Hamilton started from the rear, there was a point after the safety car where Hamilton held off making an overtake at Eau Rouge, when Alonso sailed through. The Hamilton of yesteryear would have gone for it, but it clearly seemed he was holding back to avoid an incident. That decision paid off handsomely over the course of the race.
Mike (@mike)
1st November 2016, 4:52
Well said. It’s not Max’s responsibility to look after Rosberg’s championship hopes.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 5:08
Nor is it his responsibility to affect both LH and NR’s championship with anything other than hard racing…physical contact is not the preferred tactic ever in F1…why is it being defended here?
petebaldwin (@)
1st November 2016, 12:00
@robbie – its not being defended. Physical contact shouldn’t happen but no-one should be any more careful passing a Mercedes than they should a Manor.
The Championship has nothing to with how drivers should pass others.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 12:25
+1 to you, @petebaldwin
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 12:43
@petebaldwin And that’s pretty much what Toto is saying…battle as normal against his two drivers, but don’t make physical contact. Of course the championship is on the line so of course nobody wants to see it decided by a careless move. If you wouldn’t whack a Manor, why whack a Championship contender with only 2 races to go for him to answer to misfortune such as this?
mystic one (@mysticus)
1st November 2016, 13:58
@robbie, Ver is a ticking bomb, and make no mistake, he is gonna get what is coming for him… and i have a feeling he will involve in an incident with championship decision or with a contender… if he doesnt change some of his antics…
He does dive bombing a lot with no regards to others and many times he makes contacts, or he defends at the edge of sportsmanship… he is super hot headed given his age, but he will get there sooner or later, if fia doesnt teach him, field will…
Jabosha (@jabosha)
2nd November 2016, 17:41
@Robbie
You’re acting as if what you’re is actually implying is the truth when it isn’t. Ves made a stupid move, tough luck if he takes out anyone. I’m not condoning, those are the risks. He’s not trying to determine the championship as your comment might imply. He’s racing, that’s it.
ColdFly F1 (@)
1st November 2016, 5:30
well argumented @phylyp
Ian Bond (@ianbond001)
1st November 2016, 23:53
Racing them is fine; banging wheals and desperately diving on the inside is not.
I don’t want the championship decided by an idiot.
Melvin (@)
1st November 2016, 5:36
Sure, rosberg can hit kimi in malaisya when overtaking, but nobody is allowed to hit rosberg? Why not let the mercedes duo start 2 seconds before the others to mas sure they get a clean getaway. What a bunch of nonsense, they are fighting for positions.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 13:08
@thetick Nico hitting Kimi resulted in a penalty so no, he can’t hit others, nor does it mean it is therefore alright for others to hit him. Nico chose that move, and yes, chose that risk, in fighting for the WDC. That has nothing to do with someone else taking him out when it could potentially decide the Championship.
Melvin (@)
1st November 2016, 16:25
Toto said it was a “nonsense” Penalty on rosberg, thats why i mention it. And max didn’t recieve a penalty and he had every right to be there. If Rosberg doesn’t want to be in that position he should get pole and drive away. If not he is in the usual first corner mess that happens in most races and he should account for it, not all the other drivers. They are here to get as much points as possible.
Todfod (@todfod)
1st November 2016, 15:22
You’ve got to be joking.
I couldn’t think of a more ridiculous statement made by any team boss in the history of the sport. I never thought I would quote Christian Horner, but he right said – “Nico’s championship isn’t Max’s responsibility”
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 18:14
Absolutely not @ianbond001. Remember when Vettel chased down and passed Hamilton in Interlagos 2008? I don’t see why other drivers should not race championship contenders. Wolff is in the wrong here.
Ian Bond (@ianbond001)
2nd November 2016, 0:15
Of course Wolff, and Horner had their self-serving reasons to say that; i just don’t want to see the championship decided by a hothead putting out Lewis or Nico.
And lately, Max can only race wheel to wheel against Ricciardo.
Any other driver got pushed off truck, bluntly blocked, maybe even brake tested (this one we can not see). The cynicism in that boy has got out of control.
dragoll (@dragoll)
1st November 2016, 1:07
The Ross Brawn appointment is very clever, this is a man that is hugely respected within the paddock, is not currently employed by any of the current teams, understands the ins and outs of the Ferrari hierarchy and politics, as well as Mercedes. I wonder though, how long ago was this plan to oust Bernie conceived? Was it planned for Ross to take over when he left Mercedes all those years ago? Or was it just the right guy at the right time? It seems all a bit neat for my liking.
Tristan
1st November 2016, 1:16
Around that time Horner was the one being rumoured to take the spot if I remember correct. I think calling it an ousting of Bernie is a bit sensationalist. I’d be surprised if even he doesn’t admit to himself that his time has been over for quite a while behind closed doors.
If anything the call has probably came from him for Brawn to step up if it is a conceived machination, I’m sure he wants to leave F1 in the best possible hands.
Maciek (@maciek)
1st November 2016, 1:10
Well, he is a cynical bastich and that’s a fundamental requirement… but seriously, I’ll trust anyone more than Bernie at this point. I think that Brawn could definitely do a good job of getting the sport back closer to its roots. For what it’s worth, my first hire for right-hand man would be Jenson Button.
BasCB (@bascb)
1st November 2016, 5:57
Not sure that he would be the head honcho as such @maciek. From what he mentions in interviews, it is more likely that he will be working on defining what F1 should look like in 5-8 years. So instead of haphazardly changing things every year (or even mid season), hoping that it will somehow be the magic cure, he would be taking a long term view.
That way it can be better thought through, cheaper and a change for the better!
petebaldwin (@)
1st November 2016, 12:04
Is that something you ever thought you could ever say about F1 with a straight face!?
PeterG
1st November 2016, 1:36
Johnny Herbert is really starting to annoy me in that he keeps going on about how there shouldn’t be any rules around race-craft & that it should be left upto the drivers “Like it was in my day because these are the best drivers in the world with the best judgement” as he keeps saying while forgetting that the reason many of these rules surrounding race-craft came in was because ‘back in his day’ you had drivers weaving, chopping & driving each other onto the grass because they felt the cars were safe enough to survive the accidents that sort of behavior inevitably caused.
Drivers must be given limits, They must be regulated & certain things in a racing situation must be considered incorrect. If you step back & let them do whatever then you end up where nascar did a few years back where intentionally putting someone in the wall at 200mph on ovals became acceptable & forced officials to admit that ‘boys have at it’ didn’t work & that the drivers needed to be given hard rules deeming what was/wasn’t acceptable.
bosyber (@bosyber)
1st November 2016, 8:06
Well put PeterG, I also wish we didn’t need many rules, but clearly some drivers need them spelled out in order to behave.
petebaldwin (@)
1st November 2016, 12:09
It also ignores the fact that in the past, there was grass, gravel and walls if you went off. It wasn’t quicker so it didn’t need a rule to stop drivers from doing it.
If you dont have a rule about track limits these days, drivers will take the easy option and shortcut the track.
Also, with a lack of rules, a “gentlemen’s code” is formed where some things are deemed acceptable and others arent. With some rules like we have now, drivers will do anything that isn’t banned. F1 has changed.
Jordi Casademunt (@casjo)
1st November 2016, 1:40
Getting tired of all this talk about “racecraft” being killed by the rules.
Bullying another driver to give up on their position or crash is not racecraft. Forcing your rivals to abort an overtaking move to avoid a crash is not racecraft. Pushing other drivers out of the track at the corner exit because “MY RACING LINE YO” is not racecraft.
Racecraft isn’t being killed, because you can’t kill what’s already dead.
Jason
1st November 2016, 2:23
Don’t agree about the point. Senna made his whole career on making a driver think twice about an overtaking move just because it was the yellow helmet of senna behind them. See Japan 1989, and 1990. If a driver would force the issue with senna, senna felt it was their accident to either cause or avoid.
bosyber (@bosyber)
1st November 2016, 8:08
And still @casjo is right Jason, and it is one reason why Senna isn’t adored by everyone, although most agree he is a very very good driver, some of his driving (and his ‘you go for the gap’ was cynical) wasn’t quite to be emulated.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
1st November 2016, 6:08
Exactly!
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 2:03
I have to side
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 2:09
I have to side with Verstappen against the stupid comment by Wolff this time. Can’t race the Championship leader hard?! Oh yes, he can, clueless Toto, he should, and in fact in the best interests of the Formula 1 World Championship he must! If drivers start to make allowances on racing, based on WDC positions we’ll not even see the precious little racing we have now. Ain’t nobody going to watch such a thing, so with your comments you bring F1 into disrepute Toto
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 5:18
So you condone physical whacking of drivers off the track? Even one of only two possible WDC winners? And that wouldn’t put the sport into disrepute, but a suggestion of etiquette does? Wow.
I wonder how some of you would be talking if indeed Max had hit just a titch harder and taken Nico out completely. Fair game? No harm no foul? Just racing? Nothing to see here?
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 15:02
@robbie I’m not condoning pushing a driver out in any circumstance while fighting, regardless of his WDC position. That’s the main point. Everyone should fight with everyone hard but fairly irrespective of where they are in the standings. I don’t like Wolff’s implication that MV should somehow make allowances because of Rosberg being the standings leader. MV shouldn’t push drivers off track because he should be a fair racing driver which he definitely isn’t at the moment…
dragoll (@dragoll)
1st November 2016, 5:28
@montreal95 I don’t understand this mentality. Sure the Mercedes duo are miles ahead of the pack. But think about it. If it was Max battling RIC for the championship and someone like Wehrlein sent it up the inside and wheel to wheel pushed Max off track, because WEH was trying to get the Manor up onto the 2nd step of the podium, but realistically RBR were superior, and would have passed him in pitstops, wouldn’t there be an up-roar?
Seriously, people have to take off the rosey-tinted glasses off once and a while, put the shoe on the other foot.
BasCB (@bascb)
1st November 2016, 5:54
I think we have to take that as Toto saying that while it is fine to race, being overly agressive, barging cars off track is not the thing needed on track, especially towards the end of a tight championship fight.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 7:22
@bascb – my/our only point of contention is that driving standards should always apply in a standard manner. Toto’s allowed to opine about Verstappen’s driving and ask him to tone it down, but shouldn’t qualify it with a justification that his drivers are WDC contenders.
BasCB (@bascb)
1st November 2016, 7:57
And I certainly agree with that @phylyp. I do think stewarding was a mess again last race, with not even as much as an investigation on Hamilton (and it clearly did give him the advantage of a decent gap to breathe up), my feeling was that Rosberg did not get investigated because the move that Verstappen pulled was also on the edge, it took ages to penalize Sainz, other moves were judged haphazardly in my view and then towards the end the mess with Verstappens time penalty, hurrying in Vettel to get on the podium only to have Ricciardo instated as real 3rd placed driver after several more hours.
And then we don’t even know wheather Vettel calling the referee names will even be an issue (in many sports it gets you sent of the pitch immediately), the impression was that he was even rewarded for it with his podium ceremony.
With Toto saying what he does, pretty much fits the pattern of most previous team principals with a driver in the hunt for the title. I file it under the same header of such t.p. complaining about blue flags, SC situations etc interfering with the championship.
The funny thing is, I wouldn’t have much issue with seeing the action by Verstappen/Rosberg and other such incidents not being investigated (although investigating and finding no need for action is a good second choice, maybe even better nowadays), and I feel that Vettel getting a punishment for a rules clarification that only hurt racing in the first place served the purpose of showing they should drop that one again.
However, the FIA should find a solution to stop things like Hamilton (or Verstappen for that matter) not losing time when they jst cut the corners there. To me, the best solution would be to change the tracks not to have as many such awkward chicanes/corners, second best to change them in a way that drivers will lose time, third best would be an almost autmatical time penalty (added to their next pitstop if possible), incorporating ALL abuse of track limits at every single corner (with an onus on the team/driver to show that they had just made a mistake that cost them time to avoid such penalties)
bosyber (@bosyber)
1st November 2016, 8:29
@bascb, did you see the post by @gt-racer: about why Hamilton wasn’t penalized?
I guess it still hinges on whether you believe the stewards/Whiting, but images clearly do not show all there is to know. Still, I am also not sure why there is this information, but there wasn’t an investigation announced, even without action, like there was for the ROS/VES one. The stewards indeed seemed a bit of a mess.
I agree that that corner, and corner complexes in general, need a better way to avoid straight-lining being a good alternative way to take the track. Even apart from fights, imagine Hamilton was indeed uncontrollably going through, but in a McLaren half way through the pack, joining with speed into T3 a la Liuzzi Monza 2011.
I think Will Buxton wrote another good article about that, arguing that the FIA needs to choose how it deals with track limits and overtaking moves and provide clarity and consistency.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 9:27
@bascb – agree with your comments. Don’t get me started on the stewarding! 😂
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 15:10
@dragoll You wouldn’t hear any uproar from me. I’m all for hard but fair racing between all the drivers on the grid at all times in the season, irrespective of their WDC positions. Otherwise F1 ceases being a sport in my eyes
I’ve brought it up in another conversation in this thread: I’m also a football fan, and in football, upon a suspicion that a midfield team with absolutely nothing to fight for close to the end of the season didn’t “turn up” to a game with a championship contender(or alternatively , a team fighting for survival) a criminal investigation would be launched, no less, on suspicion of violation of fair game principles. Now tell me, how’s F1 any different? Are you against fair game principle?
Robbie (@robbie)
2nd November 2016, 11:14
@montreal95 And all TW is asking for is fair game principle. Whacking someone off the track is not fair game.
montreal95 (@montreal95)
2nd November 2016, 17:04
@robbie Nope. Wrong. Here’s a quote from the article: “As refreshing as it is, and how ruthless the great ones are, if you race the championship leader three races to the end, wheel banging is not what should happen.”
Wolff clearly asks to make allowances based on the round in the season and the WDC position. It’s morally wrong and any sport that allows this is not a sport anymore. Therefore such comment should be judged in the context of its potential damage to the sport’s image=bringing it into disrepute
Happily the stewards judged this being a racing incident which is what it was. Nevertheless the fact of the comment itself is deeply troubling and puts a new perspective on the recent comment by Ross Brawn that he couldn’t trust the guy
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
1st November 2016, 2:04
Bernie said he has a 3 year contract with Liberty Media, meaning he stays for 3 years, or he leaves and gets paid even more.
bull mello (@bullmello)
1st November 2016, 3:53
Ross Brawn running Formula 1 would be the best news in a long time. Hope it’s not dashed by some kind April Fools bad reporting and can be soon confirmed by the principal parties. This is what many of us have been calling for and wishing for to put F1 back onto the right track. While never giving up hope it still seemed unlikely to happen. He is the right man for the job. Hope he has the authority needed to do it.
Selbbin (@selbbin)
1st November 2016, 4:31
Brawn! Schweeeet.
ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
1st November 2016, 6:11
Sky headline doesn’t match its content. Vows not to give up in title fight but highlighted justification if only he lose it.
Robert McKay
1st November 2016, 6:44
The only way for a sensible succession plan for Bernie is for someone other than Bernie to arrange it. No point relying on him to organise his replacement.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 7:16
Toto – over the remaining two races, can you please ensure your Mercedes cars overtake Sauber cars only on the straights without affecting or compromising their race, or having them pull aside?
Sauber are in a desperate bit to finish 10th in the WCC, so other drivers should be cognizant of that and treat them with due respect. In the interest of fairness, do the same for the Manor cars.
I’m sure you won’t have a problem with this, since you’ve already won both the WCC and WDC.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 7:26
“desperate bid”, not bit.
bosyber (@bosyber)
1st November 2016, 8:33
I am sure Toto would be very happy if his drives avoid touching wheels with the Saubers (or Manors, who’s on the other side of that fight) and avoid pushing/being pushed off track by then too, which is all he seemed to be asking for @phylyp (at least in the quote here, which is all I read).
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 9:48
@bosyber – I’m all for fair, clean and honest racing. I just don’t like Toto asking for fair and honest racing because his drivers are championship contenders. That’s a slippery slope of entitlement that I targeted with my original comment.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 11:20
@phylyp Slippery slope of entitlement? No it’s not. First of all there’s no slope here other than in your imagination and a few others who post sarcastic suggestions about staying away from Saubers, or Toto asking his drivers to be left completely alone, or Force India asking teams to not race them so they can beat Williams in the points race.
The fact is Toto IS entitled to not have his two WDC contenders whacked off the track while it has come down to where it has, with the WDC contenders having only two races to answer to an incident such as potentially having their day ended by someone hitting them hard. So are the fans entitled to not have this all come down to contact by a non-contender.
Putting them on reds would have been no guarantee against a dive bomb btw, and in fact their strategy was and always is to get away from the pack by leading and winning races away from the field. Reds were not going to last very long either.
Not only has sentiments such as Toto’s been heard before from past TP’s in this situation, even the FIA have made such requests in the past. A glaring example that I can remember was in 97 when Max Mosely told the grid to not interfere with Villeneuve and Schumacher in Jerez. That’s nearly 20 years ago. Where’s your slippery slope? Answer: it doesn’t exist.
Patrick (@paeschli)
1st November 2016, 7:31
I never understood why you should treat someone differently on track because he is the leader of the championship.
Gary
1st November 2016, 10:13
Because if you were leading the championship you would hope that they might treat you a bit more carefully, i.e. not take you out of the race and the championship. Do unto others…
petebaldwin (@)
1st November 2016, 12:17
I’d hope people would be careful if i was in a Manor too. Nothing to do with the WDC.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 12:38
Gary – But as @hahostolze said, everyone is fighting for points. In fact some drivers are fighting for points that will change their team’s standings in the WCC, which translates to much-needed income for some teams. No one makes their lives any easier (rightly so), so why should it be any different or favourable at the head of the field?
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 13:00
@phylyp So they should ban blue flags then? Or in fact, is there not the concept from race one of the season to not interfere with race leaders as a backmarker. Yet those back markers are fighting for points too. From race one. Why should they then have to leap out of the leaders’ way and compromise their day. Perhaps it’s a sporting etiquette just like Toto is asking for? Actually Toto isn’t even asking for anything as harsh as a blue flag…just no contact please. Race Lewis and Nico, sure…just don’t whack them.
Every race of the year blue flags ensure easy passes for the leaders of the race, but Toto is not allowed to ask for clean racing against the only two title contenders in the remaining 2 or 3 races?
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 13:19
@Robbie – Your comments and mine on this topic are divergent and seemingly something we cannot agree on, so there’s no point going on about it. I’m just going to say this one piece and leave it at that. There are two aspects that Toto has raised:
1) Clean racing from drivers…
2) … when up against the championship contenders
No one is arguing against Toto’s first point about clean racing. Some of us are arguing against his second point, and believe the first point is all that matters, it should never be qualified by the second point.
I’m not going to talk about blue flags here, as that is a well-debated subject, and every solution offered (as well as the status quo) all have their pros and cons. Also, the comparison between blue flags and Toto’s request is apples to oranges – blue flags apply to leaders and lapped runners (not backmarkers) within a race; Toto’s request is bringing in considerations outside the race into the equation.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 14:32
Blue flags are not debated. Only the timing of when and how a driver obeys a blue flag gets debated. I can’t recall a single debate about them dropping the blue flags altogether and making lead lap drivers fight ‘lapped runners’ if you insist, just as hard as anyone else.
They have 3 laps to obey one (or them, since they’re thrown out around the whole track) and the etiquette is that they needn’t take 3 laps if not necessary but if they are indeed themselves fighting for position they have some time to strategize how to let someone on the lead lap by so they themselves don’t lose out too much.
There’s an etiquette to it and I see nothing wrong with Toto asking for an etiquette with the issue of racing WDC contenders too hard. The FIA itself has done it. Would you have preferred to hear it from someone other than Wolff? We might yet.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 14:33
Cheers @phylyp
Theoddkiwi (@theoddkiwi)
2nd November 2016, 4:13
So when Bottas smacked into Hamilton at turn one in Melbourne, he should have been more careful of a championship contender. He affected the championship right there. How unthoughtful of him
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
1st November 2016, 19:19
Maybe it wasn’t F1 officials’ finest hour, but… when Grosjean got a race ban for that first corner smash at Spa, one of the reasons written in the stewards’ report was that the crash involved one of the championship contenders!
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
1st November 2016, 7:32
Wolff’s remarks on Verstappen are idiotic and self-serving. This is a 22 car championship.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 11:25
No, this is a two car Championship now, and Toto didn’t ask for anything other than let’s not have it be decided by someone whacking one of the contenders off the track. Race him sure, just not so hard you whack him…you know…like you’re never supposed to do anyway.
petebaldwin (@)
1st November 2016, 12:19
No it isn’t. Plenty of teams battling for their position in the Constructors. All deivers should be raced against equally, not extra careful with the Mercs.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 12:53
The difference of course being only two drivers have a shot at the WDC, so they are not the same as everyone else.
I take it everyone against Toto here is also against blue flags then? Why should they get out of the way of the leaders? They are racing for position too, no? So back markers should be racing leaders just as hard as anyone else and they should do away with blue flags…yet…boy the likes of SV sure do get upset, and some drivers even get penalized, when they don’t leap out of a leader’s way.
What’s the difference then if it doesn’t matter which team or car we’re talking about nor where they are in the standings? They’ve all go it all to play for at all times, even if it is just to get into the top ten in the Constructors, so why have blue flags?
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 13:23
When it comes to rules and fair racing – treat the race as a self-contained unit, don’t bring in external considerations like championship standings.
As I commented above, the comparison between blue flags and Toto’s request is apples to oranges – blue flags apply to leaders and lapped runners (not backmarkers) within a race; Toto’s request is bringing in considerations outside the race into the equation.
If we’re in the mode of bring in external considerations, then I have one more to offer – wheel banging racing should not be done against a driver who hasn’t secured a contract for 2017. The offending driver could wreck the chances of a contract being offered. Now, doesn’t that sound as silly an idea as it is?
Robbie (@robbie)
1st November 2016, 14:10
@phylyp Yes we’ll have to agree to disagree. The Championship standings is about as internal a consideration as it gets. It’s what they’re there for. It was a consideration made by the FIA itself, by Max Mosely for Villeneuve and Schumacher back in 97, and no ‘slippery slope’ resulted from that request that nobody interfere with the Championship battle. Nobody
had a problem with it then. Nobody should have a problem with it now. The two drivers in contention are special for being the only two drivers with a shot. Let’s let them decide it, not a force whose fight is not with them but with others on the grid. And nobody is asking them not to fight either. Just not make contact.
Claiming internal/external considerations is ridiculous. It is all internal. Even a directive from the FIA is. It is all about the Championship standings from race one, whether it has to do with a blue flag insisting a driver not interfere with a race leader in race one, or one team principal opining that the remaining contenders for the title be left literally untouched to fight it out between them. And he’s not even asking they be given a blue flag.
I think what has happened here is that nobody condones contact like Max made on Nico, but as soon as Toto gives his opinion that the contenders for the title shouldn’t be contacted, suddenly racing Nico and Lewis the harder the better is peoples’ preference. I think it has always been unwritten and unsaid anyway that it simply makes no sense to interfere with the only players left standing for the WDC. The fact that Toto has had to say it because of Max’s overcooking turn 1, is what is bothering people.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
1st November 2016, 14:14
Cheers @Robbie
Gary
1st November 2016, 10:11
I’m looking forward to Max slamming Niki Lauda for not knowing how to race, and that he, Max, has introduced a “new type of racing” that lesser drivers such as Niki Lauda, Sebastien Vettel, Kimi Raikonnen, et al are incapable of doing properly.
Night Fury (@toothless)
1st November 2016, 11:46
Going to school slam?
F1ed (@rinodina)
1st November 2016, 22:46
I’m looking forward to someone advising Niki Lauda to abstain from venting his opinions publicly in the future.
Since they set him free in the Mercedes paddock he is revealing himself as a bit of a loose canon.
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
1st November 2016, 11:13
I’m not sure that’s the right role for Brawn. I think he may be better off in Todt’s position. Brawn will get the right things done from a sporting perspective, but as a businessman and someone who can say the right (or wrong) things at the right time as Bernie can? I’m not convinced.
Then again, replacing Bernie will never be a simple task.
Martin
1st November 2016, 11:22
My first COTD :) Thanks!
The last article is interesting. Does anyone have an idea about what the maximum number of teams F1 can support? Be it by regulation or track facilities. It always looks to me that in general the pit lanes are pretty full just with the teams we have. Could we really have 20 team races at Monaco for instance?
GeeMac (@geemac)
1st November 2016, 13:20
If the Brawn rumour is true presumably that means that the “Zak Brown to McLaren” rumour also has legs? Unless Liberty are taking a Mercedes approach to senior management…
Apexor
1st November 2016, 20:09
Finally there is some one going to be in charge of formula one that cares about formula one like Ross Brawn instead of some greedy old grinch Bernie who only cares about money. Once I started watching and following F1 20 years ago I knew that Bernie would be bad for the sport. Hopefully Liberty Media will lower the price ticktets to increase the spectators and profits. The cheaper the tickets the more race fans will come out. I might one day go see a race which I have not done that yet.
Smurfler
1st November 2016, 20:09
Regarding this whole Verstappen/Rosberg issue…I remember quite a few races in the past two seasons where a certain Mercedes driver wheel banged his way through the first corner and even won a championship with it…..
Don’t remember hearing Wolff or Lauda making an issue out of that.
But apart from that; It’s a typical first corner issue which in general isn’t penalised by the stewards, so I can’t understand all the fuzz about it.
MG421982 (@)
2nd November 2016, 7:20
Great! Seems a better choice than C.Horner.