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F1 discussion

2001 Belgian Grand Prix – Alonso info

This topic contains 13 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Bleu Bleu 3 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #130122
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    Hello my dear F1 Fanatics,

    I have a question/request for you.

    The TV Station in my country hosted a small contest before this week’s race, but i think their answer was completely wrong.

    The question was: ” How many starts did Fenando Alonso have before scoring his first championship points, and where did this happen”

    They said that the correct answer was 17 starts, but 800+ of us (the viewers) answerd 18. They said that in 2001, Alonso did not start. As far as i see in this video (i found it only in german here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeIbl9BOWqw )

    Need some clear evidence that Alonso moved off the line at the start, don’t care if he abandoned in the first lap.

    Any advice is welcomed.

    #178962
    Profile photo of f199player
    f199player
    Participant

    Official records have Alonso as starting the race

    #178963
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    Can you please give me an official link?

    #178964
    #178965
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    Thanks. Didn’t think to look at the F1 official website :)

    #178966
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    Ok, so the people from the TV Station replyed to my e-mail. They said that Alonso’s start did not count in his personal statistics (?) and that because after the restart there were only 36 laps, out of 44.

    I still think they are wrong, but i need more evidence to convince them. Please help

    #178967
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Sean Kelly who is F1’s premiere stat man considers lining up on the grid, when the red lights are signaling the start, an F1 start

    #178968
    Profile photo of Dan Thorn
    Dan Thorn
    Participant

    When there has been a red flag and the race gets restarted, anyone who does not take the restart is classed as not having started that race. This is generally the commonly accepted view and as such, the TV station are correct.

    That said it is a slightly grey area of F1 statistics, with different people counting different scenarios as ‘starts’. It’s not the best question for them to have used, honestly.

    #178969
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    @raymondu999: Ok. Guess i should tweet him.

    @Dan Thorn: So Hamilton has a DNS in Canada this year?

    Anybody think i have a chance to get an answer from the FIA or FOM ?

    #178970
    Profile photo of Dan Thorn
    Dan Thorn
    Participant

    No I think that’s a different scenario as there have been rule changes regarding what happens during a red flag now. Years ago it used to be that a race restarted under a red flag would be classed as an entirely new race, often with a shortened distance, with the grid lining up as they qualified and totally disregarding what happened in the however many laps there had been before the red flag.

    Nowadays the clock doesn’t stop during a red flag, and the grid sets off in the order they were before the stoppage. It’s more like a ‘pausing’ of the race rather than totally stopping it.

    Like I say though, it’s a grey area among F1 statisticians as to what constitutes a start. Your best bet would be to contact the TV station and complain that the question was unfair as there are two acceptable answers.

    #178971
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1718286849__Belgium_2001_News4.pdf

    According to the Formula 1 Sporting Regulations (Article 158. Case B) the first part of the race is declared null and void with the grid being established by the finishing order in the first four laps.

    Seems they are right, but i doubt they actualy know why. Meh…

    Thanks everybody for the help.

    #178972
    Profile photo of f199player
    f199player
    Participant

    The rules at the time stated that should the race be stopped before the completion of the second, then the first start is declared null and void (and therefore treated as race never being started). In the event for the race being stopped after the second lap being completed then only the timing results will be declared null and void (and those who retired during the first race shall still be classed as starting the race). The race shall then be completed over the original distance, minus the number of lap originally completed, minus a further three laps.

    If the TV station still don’t agree then I suggest getting in contact with FOM or the FIA for clarification

    #178973
    Profile photo of pejte
    pejte
    Participant

    Well these pdfs from the FIA website seems pretty official.

    http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1804534710__Belgium_Class_2001.pdf

    http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1944909070__Belgium_lap_2001.pdf

    http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1718286849__Belgium_2001_News4.pdf

    Still searching the regulations from that time, for a loophole, but i doubt i will find something usefull.

    #178974
    Profile photo of Bleu
    Bleu
    Participant

    Even that link is missing Nick Heidfeld who retired on the first lap of the restarted race due to collision with de la Rosa. PdlR pulled into the pits to retire.

    I find it pretty strange to count DNSs on that race. Räikkönen, Irvine, Burti and Alonso were out before the red flag but in my books they have started.

    Talking about restarts and whether they should count, just ask Niki Lauda whether he started 1976 German GP or not?

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