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2011 Australian GP overtaking data for review

This topic contains 27 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of sw6569 sw6569 3 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)
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  • #129130
    Profile photo of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    As promised, here’s the first batch of data on overtaking in the Australian Grand Prix.

    I’ve posted this here so we can refine the data, create an accurate picture of how much real, on-track overtaking goes on in a race, and use it to draw conclusions about things like which drivers did the most overtaking and whether the DRS is making a difference.

    The data in the file below is generated automatically based on the same race data used on the site. However the system is not perfect at the moment and I need informed observers to make some amendments.

    For example, there may be some occasions where a driver has been shown to have made an overtaking move when in fact they’ve just gained a place because a driver in front of them pitted.

    Here is some guidance on what should and should not be counted as an overtaking move:

    • No first-lap passes
    • No passes that ‘didn’t stick’ – e.g., where a driver gains a position braking too deeply into a corner and is immediately re-passed
    • No places gained ‘in the pits’ – e.g., a driver gaining a place through faster in- and out-laps
    • No places gained because the overtaken driver went off the track
    • No places gained through moves that were penalised by the stewards

    (Should you wish to analyse the data based on different criteria, please do so in another thread.)

    Please post details of any amendments you would make to the data below, indicating which lap/s, which driver/s and why you would make the change.

    Please do not edit the file and post a different version with no explanation, as that would be entirely unhelpful.

    Click here to download the data. It’s a .csv file which should work with most spreadsheet software such as Excel and Google Documents.

    #165299
    Profile photo of RIISE
    RIISE
    Member

    EDIT: Nevermind it works now.

    Great data it’s like a whole load of binary. (Apart from the 2’s, -1’s and 3’s of course)

    #165300
    Profile photo of karan01
    karan01
    Member

    I entirely don’t mean to sound rude, I just have a few questions which might help your endeavour.

    1.How does this spreadsheet show if DRS is making a difference?

    2. Maybe group the overtakes into “DRS assisted” and “No DRS”.

    3 If the overtakes were on the entry to turn 1, is it safe to say the overtake was DRS assisted?

    4. What if DRS did very little in the overtaking, and the main factor was KERS or just the exit speed coming onto the straight?

    edit: wasn’t ALO -2 on lap 2?

    #165301
    Profile photo of BasCB
    BasCB
    Participant

    Right now having a look at it.

    Just to clear this, how is it possible, that there is more overtakes than places lost? For example Vettel passed Button, who did not lose a place in lap 16? But then loses 3 places in the next 2 laps.

    It looks like Alonso was the most prolific passer with 15 (with Perez at 13 and Alg. at 12), a shame the FOM did not get more than 50% of that

    #165302
    Profile photo of box this lap
    box this lap
    Member

    thanks!

    #165303
    Profile photo of AndrewTanner
    AndrewTanner
    Participant

    Will have a proper look at this ASAP. Hope I can be of some help.

    #165304
    Profile photo of TommyB
    TommyB
    Participant

    It shouldn’t matter what was a DRS pass and which isn’t. For me, I liked it that DRS wasn’t an instant overtake button. It helped Button stay close to Massa and we got a great battle for about 10 laps.

    #165305
    Profile photo of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    “Just to clear this, how is it possible, that there is more overtakes than places lost?”

    It’s not – like I said, this data is produced automatically but it’s only approximate, I don’t have a foolproof method of automatically calculating all the ‘real’ passes with total accuracy based on the data available. That’s why I’m asking for people to suggest changes to the data produced here.

    #165306
    Profile photo of BasCB
    BasCB
    Participant

    Thanks Keith, I thought that was it, just wanted to ask. Now off to get through the data for that.

    #165307
    Profile photo of BasCB
    BasCB
    Participant

    OK, so here goes for some ideas on the file, hope most of those are accurate:

    1. I think Button in lap 11 should have 0 passes instead of 2 (one was getting past Massa, second Webber pitting)

    2. Alonso gained only one place in that same lap (over Massa), the other was Webber pitting. Petrov did not pass anyone in that lap, Webber again.

    To find laps where something does not add up, I put a sum at the end of each line, as the total should be 0 (same amount of gained places as places lost). Seems laps 11-17, 18, 23, 26, 27, 29-32, 35-37, 41, 42,48 need looking into.

    Lap 48 – Button has 1 pass, if I am right, it should be Massa losing his place to Button there (3.).

    #165308
    Profile photo of JCCJCC
    JCCJCC
    Participant

    I didn’t saw all the race, so, if I mention any overtaking that wasn’t a real overtaking please point it.

    Vettel 1 (Button)

    Hamilton 0

    Petrov 0

    Alonso 4 (Kobayashi, Rosberg, Massa, Heidfeld)

    Webber 1 (Kobayashi)

    Button 2 (Buemi, Kobayashi)

    Perez 0

    Kobayashi 0

    Massa 0

    Buemi 1 (Di Resta)

    Sutil 2 (Di Resta, Di Resta)

    Di Resta 0

    Alguersuari 5 (D’ Ambrosio, Glock, Trulli, Kovalainen, Heidfeld)

    Heidfeld 0

    Trulli 0

    D’ Ambrosio 0

    Glock 1 (D’Ambrosio)

    Barrichello 7 (Glock, D’ Ambrosio, Trulli, Maldonado, Kovalainen, Perez, Kobayashi)

    Rosberg 0

    Kovalainen 0

    Schumacher 0

    Maldonado 2 (Kovalainen, Perez)

    #165309
    Profile photo of AndrewTanner
    AndrewTanner
    Participant

    I know we were discussing this the other week but surely it’s very difficult to know all over-taking moves as we don’t get to see everyones race.

    #165310
    Profile photo of AndrewTanner
    AndrewTanner
    Participant

    Can we use this in conjunction with the ‘tyres used’ chart posted the other day to determine when drivers pitted and negate any over-takes on those laps?

    To me, it seems like it’s an over-take unless proven otherwise. Anything worth debating will be brought to our attention via television or other methods.

    #165311
    Profile photo of AndrewTanner
    AndrewTanner
    Participant

    That said…that kinda defeats one of the reasons for pitting! New tyres, new grip equates to potentially more over-taking. Hmmm!

    #165312
    Profile photo of JCCJCC
    JCCJCC
    Participant

    In your overtaking data you have a big problem, you clear the laps where the driver pits (which is correct), but you should clear to the overtakes done to drivers who where on the pits.

    The best way in my opinion is to a graphical lap chart (with times instead of positions) and check for each driver line in graphic when he crossed over other drivers line. And then at the end remove the false positives, the ones you saw on tv that where motivated by off-track of one of the drivers, and no forbidden overtakes.

    In your stats Perez seems to have 13 overtakes, but he didn’t overtake no one on the track.

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