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F1 discussion

2012 qualifying championship

This topic contains 37 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of AdrianMorse AdrianMorse 1 year, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 38 total)
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  • #131451
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    This is just a little thing that I thought was interesting to do – just to see how people have faired in the races, vs in qualifying- ie do they live up to their quali performances? Do they move up? Do they move down? The race-based standings are in brackets

    After Australia
    Hamilton – 25 (15)
    Button – 18 (25)
    Grosjean – 15 (0)
    Schumacher – 12 (0)
    Webber – 10 (12)
    Vettel – 8 (18)
    Rosberg – 6 (0)
    Maldonado – 4 (0)
    Hulkenberg – 2 (0)
    Ricciardo – 1 (2)
    Alonso – 0 (10)
    Kobayashi – 0 (8)
    Raikkonen – 0 (6)
    Perez – 0 (4)
    di Resta – 0 (1)

    After Malaysia
    Hamilton – 50 (30)
    Button – 36 (25)
    Schumacher – 27 (1)
    Webber – 22 (24)
    Grosjean – 21 (0)
    Vettel – 16 (18)
    Raikkonen – 10 (16)
    Rosberg – 10 (0)
    Maldonado – 4 (0)
    Alonso – 2 (35)
    Hulkenberg – 2 (2)
    Perez – 1 (22)
    Ricciardo – 1 (2)
    Senna – 0 (8)
    Kobayashi – 0 (8)
    di Resta – 0 (7)
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    After China
    Hamilton – 68 (45)
    Button – 44 (43)
    Schumacher – 42 (1)
    Rosberg – 35 (25)
    Webber – 28 (36)
    Grosjean – 22 (8)
    Raikkonen – 20 (16)
    Vettel – 16 (28)
    Kobayashi – 12 (9)
    Perez – 5 (22)
    Alonso – 4 (37)
    Maldonado – 4 (4)
    Hulkenberg – 2 (2)
    Ricciardo – 1 (2)
    Senna – 0 (14)
    di Resta – 0 (7)
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    After Bahrain
    Hamilton – 86 (49)
    Button – 56 (43)
    Rosberg – 45 (35)
    Webber – 43 (48)
    Schumacher – 42 (2)
    Vettel – 41 (53)
    Grosjean – 28 (23)
    Raikkonen – 20 (34)
    Kobayashi – 12 (9)
    Perez – 9 (22)
    Ricciardo – 9 (2)
    Alonso – 6 (43)
    Maldonado – 4 (4)
    Hulkenberg – 2 (2)
    Senna – 1 (14)
    di Resta – 0 (15)
    Vergne – 0 (4)
    Massa – 0 (2)

    After Spain
    Hamilton – 111 (53) (I count him as 25 as he qualified P1)
    Button – 56 (45)
    Rosberg – 51 (41)
    Vettel – 45 (61)
    Schumacher – 44 (2)
    Webber – 43 (48)
    Grosjean – 40 (35)
    Raikkonen – 30 (49)
    Maldonado – 22 (29)
    Alonso – 21 (61)
    Perez – 17 (22)
    Kobayashi – 13 (19)
    Ricciardo – 9 (2)
    Hulkenberg – 2 (3)
    Senna – 1 (14)
    di Resta – 0 (15)
    Vergne – 0 (4)
    Massa – 0 (2)

    #202161
    Avatar of Todfod
    Todfod
    Participant

    Interesting… Just shows how good Alonso has been – 21 pts in quali but 61 in reality. Also how poor Schumacher has been 44 in quali and 2 reality

    #202162
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    I don’t think it’s fair to apportion blame/credit to solely the driver. We need to factor in he team too for strategy, reliability, pitstops, etc.

    Some cars are also qualifying specialists, some are race specialists. It’s not that clear cut

    #202163
    Avatar of infernojim
    infernojim
    Participant

    This is quite interesting. The biggest thing it highlights is how badly Mclaren have failed to convert their raw pace advantage at the start of the season into a championship lead.

    And now, they don’t have the raw pace advantage that the did in the first few races. I think that could be key come the end of the season.

    Also shows what a stonking season Alonso has had so far.

    And if you look at the teams, it’s a really accurate idea of how the season has gone.

    Mclaren qualify strongly and then fade in the race.
    Mercedes do the same
    Ferrari qualify awfully and move forward in the race.
    Red Bull qualify okay and move forward in the race.
    Lotus are closest in terms of Qualifying and Race results, on balance moving a little forward in the race, but not having a great variation between their Quali and race pace. This points to them being one of the strongest teams on the grid at present.

    Sauber / Williams also highlight their race pace relative to their Quali form in these tables.

    I hope that this continues, as it’s a really interesting idea, and quite revealing.

    #202164
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Note once more that I count qualifying performances and not the grid – ie Schumacher is credited 25 points here and not 8.

    A new addition to the list is I’ve put up their “real” standings as a percentage of their “qualifying standings” except for those who have 0 qualifying points – I can’t be arsed to deal with the mathematics of that at the moment :P

    Hamilton – 123 (63) – 51.2%
    Schumacher – 69 (2) – 2.9%
    Rosberg – 66 (59) – 89.4%
    Button – 56 (45) – 80.4%
    Webber – 61 (73) – 119.7%
    Grosjean – 50 (35) – 70%
    Vettel – 46 (73) – 158.7%
    Raikkonen – 34 (51) – 150%
    Alonso – 29 (76) – 262.1%
    Maldonado – 24 (29) – 120.8%
    Perez – 17 (22) – 129.4%
    Kobayashi – 13 (19) – 146.2%
    Ricciardo – 9 (2) – 22.2%
    Massa – 6 (10) – 166.7%
    Hulkenberg – 2 (7) – 350%
    Senna – 1 (15) – 1500%
    di Resta – 0 (21)
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    Note that these numbers on their own don’t really prove anything, unless you’re a consistent Q3 runner. Sometimes-Q3-sometimes-not runners will inevitably skew the entire scale horribly in their favor such as Senna and Hulkenberg. Yes that includes Raikkonen for his out-of-order qualifying in Melbourne. The two outright quickest teams, it seems, are clearly McLaren and Mercedes, but they have not managed to make their advantage show.

    #202165
    Avatar of necrodethmortem
    necrodethmortem
    Participant

    It feels wrong to me to compare qualifying and finishing positions the way you are doing. You should compare the grid positions, because now it looks like Hamilton has fallen back (even) more than he actually has.

    #202166
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    It’s not about how they move forward/backwards in the race – it’s about comparing their ultimate, balls-out pace against their race/championship results.

    Right now amongst the top cars, Alonso, Vettel and Raikkonen stand out – at 262, 158 and 150 percents exactly. Raikkonen though made a Q1 exit and Q2 exit – the Q2 exit dealing him a golden hand for the race as it happened (4 new sets of tyres)

    #202167
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    After Canada

    Hamilton – 141 (88) – 62.4%
    Rosberg – 76 (67) – 88.2%
    Webber – 73 (79) – 108.2%
    Vettel – 71 (85) – 119.7%
    Schumacher – 71 (2) – 2.8%
    Button – 57 (45) – 78.9%
    Grosjean – 56 (53) – 94.6%
    Alonso – 44 (86) – 195.5%
    Raikkonen – 34 (55) – 161.8%
    Maldonado – 24 (29) – 120.8%
    Perez – 17 (37) – 217.6%
    Massa – 14 (11) – 78.6%
    Kobayashi – 13 (21) – 161.5%
    Ricciardo – 9 (2) – 22.2%
    di Resta – 4 (21) – 525%
    Hulkenberg – 2 (7) – 350%
    Senna – 1 (15) – 1500%
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    #202168
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    After Valencia. Reliability skews this one quite a bit out of Grosjean and Vettel’s favor…

    Hamilton – 159 (88) – 55.3%
    Vettel – 96 (85) – 88.5%
    Rosberg – 84 (75) – 89.3%
    Webber – 73 (91) – 124.7%
    Schumacher – 71 (17) – 23.9%
    Grosjean – 68 (53) – 77.9%
    Button – 59 (49) – 83.1%
    Alonso – 44 (111) – 252.3%
    Raikkonen – 44 (73) – 165.9%
    Maldonado – 39 (29) – 74.4%
    Kobayashi – 19 (21) – 110.5%
    Perez – 17 (39) – 229.4%
    Massa – 14 (11) – 78.6%
    Ricciardo – 9 (2) – 22.2%
    Hulkenberg – 6 (17) – 283.3%
    di Resta – 5 (27) – 540%
    Senna – 1 (16) – 1600%
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    #202169
    Avatar of the_sigman
    the_sigman
    Participant

    @raymondu999 Fantastic job! Thank you!

    #202170
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    This was done in the morning, pre-coffee. So be nice if I have anything wrong :P

    #202171
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Hamilton – 163 (92) – 56.4%
    Vettel – 108 (100) – 92.6%
    Webber – 91 (116) – 127.5%
    Schumacher – 86 (23) – 26.7%
    Rosberg – 84 (75) – 89.3%
    Alonso – 69 (129) – 187.0%
    Grosjean – 69 (61) – 88.4%
    Button – 59 (50) – 84.7%
    Raikkonen – 52 (83) – 159.6%
    Maldonado – 45 (29) – 64.4%
    Massa – 24 (23) – 95.8%
    Kobayashi – 19 (21) – 110.5%
    Perez – 17 (39) – 229.4%
    Ricciardo – 9 (2) – 22.2%
    Hulkenberg – 8 (17) – 212.5%
    di Resta – 5 (27) – 540%
    Senna – 1 (18) – 1800%
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    #202172
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    After Hockenheim

    Hamilton – 167 (92) – 55.1%
    Vettel – 116 (110) – 94.8%
    Webber – 106 (120) – 113.2%
    Schumacher – 98 (29) – 29.6%
    Alonso – 94 (154) – 163.8%
    Rosberg – 84 (76) – 90.5%
    Grosjean – 69 (61) – 88.4%
    Button – 65 (68) – 104.6%
    Raikkonen – 53 (98) – 184.9%
    Maldonado – 53 (29) – 54.7%
    Massa – 24 (23) – 95.8%
    Kobayashi – 19 (33) – 173.7%
    Hulkenberg – 18 (19) – 105.5%
    Perez – 17 (47) – 276.4%
    Ricciardo – 9 (2) – 22.2%
    di Resta – 7 (27) – 385.7%
    Senna – 1 (18) – 1800%
    Vergne – 0 (4)

    #202173
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    Wow, amazing how good Hamilton has been in qualifying this season. Shame he hasn’t been able to translate this into good race results due the Mclaren eating its tyres, poor race pace, unlucky misfortunes or Mclaren’s incompetence in the pits, or his own inability to perform as well in the race (no, I don’t entirely blame the team or car here).

    #202174
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @Kingshark indeed. It’s amazing that despite not featuring in the quali shootout much recently he’s still dominating the qualifying championship.

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