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F1 discussion

2012 – Team qualifying championship

This topic contains 9 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of raymondu999 raymondu999 1 year, 10 months ago.

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  • #132321
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    With my qualifying championship stuff fairly well received, I thought it would be interesting viewing to do it for teams – so I’ve done the calculations again, based on the quickest qualifier in each team, for each qualifying. As such for each team, I take the quickest single quali lap, and so there will only be 12 standings here. I do it this way because clearly, if someone is out qualified by their teammate, then they did not unlock the limit of their car.

    For example, McLaren got a front row lockout in Australia. That counts as 25. Romain Grosjean gets 15 points for being the next quickest car – and because he didn’t get P2, we assume (Occam’s Razor) that the car wasn’t quick enough to qualify P2 – and take P3 as “the limit” for that car on that weekend. It wouldn’t be fair then to compare Grosjean’s qualifying 15 points against 18 points, because that was a McLaren result.

    Australia
    McLaren – 25
    Lotus – 15
    Mercedes – 12
    Red Bull – 10
    Williams – 4
    Force India – 2
    Toro Rosso – 1

    Malaysia
    McLaren – 50
    Mercedes – 27
    Lotus – 25
    Red Bull – 22
    Williams – 4
    Force India – 2
    Ferrari – 2
    Toro Rosso – 1
    Sauber – 1

    China
    McLaren – 68
    Mercedes – 52
    Lotus – 35
    Red Bull – 28
    Sauber – 13
    Williams – 4
    Ferrari – 4
    Force India – 2
    Toro Rosso – 1

    Bahrain
    McLaren – 86
    Mercedes – 62
    Red Bull – 53
    Lotus – 41
    Sauber – 17
    Toro Rosso – 9
    Ferrari – 6
    Williams – 4
    Force India – 3

    Barcelona
    McLaren – 111
    Mercedes – 68
    Red Bull – 57
    Lotus – 53
    Sauber – 25
    Williams – 22
    Ferrari – 21
    Toro Rosso – 9
    Force India – 3

    Monaco
    McLaren – 123
    Mercedes – 93
    Red Bull – 75
    Lotus – 63
    Ferrari – 29
    Sauber – 25
    Williams – 24
    Toro Rosso – 9
    Force India – 3

    Canada
    McLaren – 141
    Mercedes – 103
    Red Bull – 100
    Lotus – 69
    Ferrari – 44
    Sauber – 25
    Williams – 24
    Toro Rosso – 9
    Force India – 7

    Valencia
    McLaren – 159
    Red Bull – 125
    Mercedes – 111
    Lotus – 81
    Ferrari – 44
    Williams – 39
    Sauber – 31
    Force India – 11
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Silverstone
    McLaren – 163
    Red Bull – 143
    Mercedes – 126
    Lotus – 89
    Ferrari – 69
    Williams – 45
    Sauber – 31
    Force India – 13
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Germany
    McLaren – 169
    Red Bull – 161
    Mercedes – 138
    Ferrari – 94
    Lotus – 90
    Williams – 53
    Sauber – 31
    Force India – 23
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Hungary
    McLaren – 194
    Red Bull – 176
    Mercedes – 138
    Lotus – 108
    Ferrari – 102
    Williams – 57
    Sauber – 31
    Force India – 24
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Spa
    McLaren – 219
    Red Bull – 182
    Mercedes – 138
    Lotus – 120
    Ferrari – 110
    Williams – 72
    Sauber – 49
    Force India – 25
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Monza
    McLaren – 244
    Red Bull – 190
    Mercedes – 148
    Ferrari – 125
    Lotus – 124
    Williams – 72
    Sauber – 51
    Force India – 37
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Singapore
    McLaren – 269
    Red Bull – 205
    Mercedes – 150
    Ferrari – 135
    Lotus – 128
    Williams – 90
    Sauber – 51
    Force India – 45
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Japan
    McLaren – 284
    Red Bull – 230
    Mercedes – 150
    Ferrari – 141
    Lotus – 138
    Williams – 90
    Sauber – 63
    Force India – 46
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Korea
    McLaren – 299
    Red Bull – 255
    Ferrari – 153
    Mercedes – 152
    Lotus – 148
    Williams – 90
    Sauber – 63
    Force India – 50
    Toro Rosso – 9

    India
    McLaren – 314
    Red Bull – 290
    Ferrari – 163
    Lotus – 154
    Mercedes – 153
    Williams – 92
    Sauber – 67
    Force India – 50
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Abu Dhabi
    McLaren – 339
    Red Bull – 308
    Ferrari – 169
    Lotus – 164
    Mercedes – 157
    Williams – 104
    Sauber – 67
    Force India – 50
    Toro Rosso – 9

    #214327
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Obviously the primary use of this would be comparing how each driver in each team has fared, compared to the better qualifier for each weekend. As such, as of Abu Dhabi, teams are:
    McLaren – 339
    Red Bull – 308
    Ferrari – 169
    Lotus – 164
    Mercedes – 157
    Williams – 104
    Sauber – 67
    Force India – 50
    Toro Rosso – 9

    Drivers:
    Hamilton – 303
    Vettel – 237
    Webber – 197
    Button – 167
    Alonso – 155
    Schumacher – 111
    Grosjean – 110
    Raikkonen – 109
Maldonado – 104
    Rosberg – 98
    Massa – 63
    Kobayashi – 51
    Perez – 39
    di Resta – 28
    Hulkenberg – 24
Ricciardo – 9
    Senna – 3
    Vergne – 0

    So now, we move on to calculate how each driver has done, as a percentage of their team.

    Hamilton – 303 (McLaren 339) -
    Vettel – 237 (Red Bull 308)
    Webber – 197 (Red Bull 308)
    Button – 167 (McLaren 339)
    Alonso – 155 (Ferrari 169)
    Schumacher – 111 (Mercedes 157)
    Grosjean – 110 (Lotus 164)
    Raikkonen – 109 (Lotus 164)
Maldonado – 104 (Williams 104)
    Rosberg – 98 (Mercedes 157)
    Massa – 63 (Ferrari 169)
    Kobayashi – 51 (Sauber 67)
    Perez – 39 (Sauber 67)
    di Resta – 28 (Force India 50)
    Hulkenberg – 24 (Force India 50)
Ricciardo – 9 (Toro Rosso 9)
    Senna – 3 (Williams 104)
    Vergne – 0 (Toro Rosso 9)

    And based on these – we get the following:
    Hamilton – 89.4%
    Vettel – 76.9%
    Webber – 64.0%
    Button – 49.3%
    Alonso – 91.7%
    Schumacher – 70.7%
    Grosjean – 67.1%
    Raikkonen – 66.5%
Maldonado – 100% (!!!)
    Rosberg – 62.4%
    Massa – 37.3%
    Kobayashi – 76.1%
    Perez – 58.2%
    di Resta – 56.0%
    Hulkenberg – 48.0%
Ricciardo – 100%
    Senna – 2.9%
    Vergne – 0%

    Sorted by highest to lowest:
Maldonado – 100% (!!!)
Ricciardo – 100% (!!!)
    Alonso – 91.7%
    Hamilton – 89.4%
    Vettel – 76.9%
    Kobayashi – 76.1%
    Schumacher – 70.7%
    Grosjean – 67.1%
    Raikkonen – 66.5%
    Webber – 64.0%
    Rosberg – 62.4%
    Perez – 58.2%
    di Resta – 56.0%
    Button – 49.3%
    Hulkenberg – 48.0%
    Massa – 37.3%
    Senna – 2.9%
    Vergne – 0%

    #214328
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    The higher the score, the better the qualifier. In theory.

    Of course, we have to take into account that some drivers have teammates who haven’t been very good qualifiers in 2012 (Ricciardo, Alonso and Maldonado come to mind) and this will inflate their scores.

    #214329
    Avatar of Bob
    Bob
    Participant

    Just goes to show how far McLaren have squandered their advantage in qualifying with errors and mechanical failures on Sunday, and how Ferrari have capitalized on their strong race pace to make up for their poor Saturday form.

    Team – Qualifying Points – Actual Points – Points Difference
    McLaren – 339 – 318 – -21
    Ferrari – 169 – 340 – +171

    That McLaren is topping the qualifying standings, yet slipping in the actual WCC, is galling.

    #214330
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @bobthevulcan that’s not how this works – it only takes 1 car from each qualifying hour – the fastest car of each team. If you wanted qualifying standings, they’re here

    McLaren is dominant at 470 points. Ferrari at 218.

    #214331
    Avatar of Bob
    Bob
    Participant

    @raymondu999 – Ah, I see, apologies.

    In which case, Hamilton, Alonso and Ricciardo (not entirely surprised – Vergne has always been caught out in Q1) seem to be doing the lion’s share of the qualifying work at their respective teams.

    #214332
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Yep. Basically, if we assume that in every qualifying session, at least one car achieves “the limit” – ie the maximum quali lap, then this is a percentage of how close they generally get to it.

    Doing it via quali times (rather than doing it via qualifying points as such) is probably better methodology – but then again it needs someone who has even more free time :P

    #214333
    Avatar of the_sigman
    the_sigman
    Participant

    @raymondu999 Thank you. Brilliant job once again.

    #214334
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @sigman1998 why thank you. Always nice to be appreciated :)

    #214335
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    To be honest – I WOULD do a lap time analysis if I could, but there are too many questions in terms of methodology.

    For example, which time should I get? Q1? Q2? Q3?
    Say Driver A and Driver B are teammates. One gets to Q2, one gets to Q3. Which time do I take then?
    Track evolution could make a car slower into Q3, so it’s not quite as simple as just getting the last qualifying time. For example in China a lot of cars went slower in Q3, than their Q2 laptimes.
    Q2 also could be a case of “pushing just enough to get through to Q3″ – in which case it wouldn’t be a good reflection of the limit. Then your teammate who’s more in trouble could be pushing there while you’re not.

    Ferrari in Monaco presents a good example of this conundrum. Note that Alonso ultimately ends up outqualifying Massa

    Massa Q2 Monaco – 1:14.911
    Massa Q3 Monaco – 1:15.049 (slower than Q2)
    Alonso Q2 Monaco – 1:15.128
    Alonso Q3 Monaco – 1:14.948 (faster than Q2)

    So in that case, were the Q3 track conditions faster or slower for Ferrari? Ultimately Massa did the quickest qualifying lap – but was Alonso pushing in Q2?

    Methodology is very difficult in that sense.

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