Group Admins

  • Profile picture of Keith Collantine

Group Mods

  • Profile picture of damonsmedley
  • Profile picture of Bradley Downton

F1

Public Group active 4 hours, 58 minutes ago

F1 discussion

How drivers changed position in the championship

Tagged: , ,

This topic contains 19 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Iestyn Davies Iestyn Davies 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #133914
    Avatar of OmarR-Pepper
    OmarR-Pepper
    Participant

    Check this out
    http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3512/3yf5.jpg
    What do you think about it?

    Some notable thing I noticed is that the Red Bull drivers have remained in the same position in the 2 parts. I’ll update this chart after Brazil.

    Please comment about this.

    #245368
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    Only the two Germans Vettel and Rosberg have scored in all races after the break. And Hülkenberg is the star, with almost the same tally as Massa, who scored in every race bar Austin.

    #245369
    Avatar of Dion
    Dion
    Participant

    I wonder if Grosjean can overtake Alonso in terms of points in the season’s second half…

    #245370
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    Vettel has more than twice of Webber’s podium tally.
    It is def. not just the car.

    #245371
    Avatar of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    Vettel played the consistency game in the first half and then just blitzed everyone in the second.

    The intersting one for me in that is Vergne scoring no points since the summer break, while Daniel has scored 8.

    #245372
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    @omarR-pepper This is definitely interesting, and something I thought about myself. It makes sense, but I was also wondering if it was more appropriate to halve this season by the tyres? 2013 tyres vs. 2012 tyres. Germany could fit in either slot, having both, but I would probably include it in the latter part.

    The season really did turn around after Silverstone. Interestingly, Perez is ahead of Button in the second half, with Grosjean in WDC form, where he was nowhere on the 2013 tyres. Ominously, Vettel has only lost 10 points since the new tyres, and that was only from bad pit strategy at Hungary. Vergne, Sutil, Maldonado all doing worse now too..

    @infinitygc Definitely! The other question is can Massa beat Alonso in Brazil!

    @magon4 – indeed, but how many podiums has Webber lost from car problems? Imo, it’s only 1 for Vettel in Silverstone..

    #245373
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    You’d almost forget how far ahead Vettel already was before he got the best car.

    @fastiesty: why don’t you tell us how many podiums he missed.

    #245374
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @mnmracer

    You’d almost forget how far ahead Vettel already was before he got the best car

    You don’t think that Red Bull had the best car up and until Hungary? If not them, then who did?

    #245375
    Avatar of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    How many times has Vettel not been on the podium though? I shall tell you: 3 times. That’s it. And all in the first 8 races.

    The other two besides Britain were both 4th place finishes. So Vettel has never finished outside the top 4 this season. Beat that, Webber.

    #245376
    Avatar of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    @kingshark Ferrari for the first five races.

    #245377
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    Australia: Ferrari (Lotus was about equal with RB)
    Malaysia: Red Bull
    China: Ferrari and Mercedes
    Bahrain: Red Bull
    Spain: Ferrari and Lotus
    Monaco: Mercedes
    Canada: Red Bull
    England: Mercedes
    Germany: equal with Lotus
    Hungary: Mercedes

    #245378
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    Nico beating Lewis after the summer break…

    #245379
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    Admittedly, Vettel has only missed the podium in 3 instances. Silverstone – set for podium until gearbox failed. China – tried a hard to soft tyre combo, didn’t work out and was only two tenths of a second off a podium. Spain – got caught out between strategies and hence lost a probable podium. So, these occasions were actually from a car problem or a simple strategy mix up.

    Webber has a podium from India lost with car trouble, and possibly another occurrence but I can’t really remember tbh. Most of these are in previous years if I remember correctly. Vettel has also lost wins with gearbox/alternator failures, so it’s pretty even over their time together as proven here before. But it always seems Webber has more little incremental problems, while Vettel can usually bring his car home in 1st anyway as he is usually out in front far enough.

    But RB always had the best car, it would be impossible not to when you spend £100m more than any other team (in team budget spend). But the 2013 tyres masked it, as they couldn’t get all their performance down onto the track. But the switch back to 2012 tyres revealed it, and recently their gap has been 0.75-1 second in front. Vettel was cruising home in the second half of the last GP, resting his head, while Webber was left too far behind Grosjean at the pit stage in what appeared a strange strategy call to me.

    I’m not denying that Vettel has beaten Webber convincingly this season, but looking at 2010, we can see that Vettel’s strengths over Webber are adaptability, specifically to driving style, say 2011, and feeling the softer tyres, as in 2012 and 2013. Webber always does better on classic tracks, and lost his pole in Austin in the non-classic last corners, but could be even again in Brazil; Vettel does better on tilkedromes and karting style tracks (same with Hamilton?) as that’s what he’s mainly driven.

    Also, I’m convinced that they are doing something with the tea tray, to run the car lower and with more downforce, in the last few races… the ominous sign being that they are now no longer down on top speed, but can still run a full down-force setup at every track.. the FIA tried to intervene with a test, but got it wrong, and so we will not find out exactly what was happening now, until it is rumbled. That’s why Brawn knows that they could still be out front in 2014, even if the Renault engine is slower than the Mercedes.

    All that said, I’ll agree with you, @mnmracer, about the general ‘best car’ at each event this year’s first half, allied to their tyre usage. Alonso was unlucky to lose a chance at a win in Malaysia!

    #245380
    Avatar of Hamilfan
    Hamilfan
    Participant

    @fastiesty Great points there . We all know Vettel is a consistent driver . So give him the goods and he shall shine . Now , I am more interested in the goods . Regarding your points about the exhausts . Is it possible that the exhaust technique used for gaining speed out of corners is independent of wing and setup ? This would mean that the RBR could be setup for any track with any characteristics and still have the advantage which is what they are doing now. They get the straight line speed and gain during braking also which has a two fold advantage . And Vettel knows to use butter tyres very well ( he works hard with his team to understand them ). It also has to be remembered that RBR mastered the 2012 tyres the best. The prognosis looks bad as RBR stands mighty among the kings of F1 constructors and may even dominate f1 for more years to come . We desperately need a challenger , a superhero , a supercar like the Red Bull and a super driver combined to beat RBR.

    #245381
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @mnmracer
    I have quite a few disagreements with your list.
    If Lotus was about equal to Red Bull in Australia, then how come Raikkonen was faster on two stops than either Alonso or Vettel were on three stops?
    In China, Ferrari were in a league of their own. Mercedes was on par with Lotus and RBR over race distance.
    In Bahrain, Ferrari had the pace of Red Bull, but Alonso’s DRS prevented a race lead battle.
    In England, Red Bull had equal race speed as Mercedes. Same in Hungary.
    And in Germany, Lotus’s speed was in a class of their own. Vettel made the difference that day.

    But that still doesn’t answer my question, if Red Bull did not overall have the best car in the first 10 races, then who exactly did?

    Vettel is undoubtedly my driver of the season, closely followed by Alonso (who lies 2nd in the WDC with the fourth best car), but the claim that Vettel build a 40 point lead by Hungary with a car that was inferior to another, I ridicule.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.