Accusations of bias (45 posts)

Topic tags: bias, F1fanatic
  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    If Liuzzi has a legal right to the seat, then Force India would not be buying him out. There is obviously a provision in Liuzzi’s contract that enables the team to buy the seat back from him.

  • Profile picture of xtophe xtophe said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    People need to learn the difference between bias and opinion. To me an opinion consists of a well argued set of statements. Bias is the opposite. It’s supporting or attacking a subject for the sake of it. That doens’t mean everyone should have the same opinion (be it political, philosophical or F1-related).

    Screaming bias at every occasion is in itself a form of bias towards this site. People see ‘.co.uk’ and naturally assume that the majority of visitors is British and therefor immediately jump to the conclusion that Keith must be catering towards said audience (or be part of the presumed audience). I believe that both the premise and the conclusion of such an argument are flawed.

  • Profile picture of GeeMac GeeMac said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    Glad someone else pointed the picture poinr out! Saward’s picture is like something a random hanger-on would put on their facbook page, not quite what you would expect of a “respected motor racing journo”…

    “permission to go back to topic”

  • Profile picture of TommyB TommyB said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    HAHA! Why does Joe Saward think Luizzi is so good. I will never know.

  • Profile picture of sw6569 sw6569 said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    @PM (am not meaning to thread hijack, apologies)

    The reason it would go to court is likey because either a) Liuzzi wasn’t happy with the contract settlement or b) the contract termination isn’t valid.

    If a) then it will depend on the contractual clauses most likely.
    If b) then it’ll depend on whether the provision to terminate the contract has been satisfied. Liuzzi and Saward’s argument will be that they haven’t been satisfied (or if they have then it was because of a fault of the team rather than Liuzzi)

    In a) then what’ll probably happen is a simple extra payout to Liuzzi or it’ll go before court and Liuzzi will likely lose if the contract provisions are upheld to be reasonable.
    In b) then Liuzzi may apply for an injunction to prevent his seat from being taken (as legally it’ll be his seat still, as he has a contract).
    The court won’t order specific performance of his contract though because of the breakdown in relationships between the parties, so he’ll just be doing it to get more money in the way of compensation/to hinder Force India. Legally though, he’ll have the right to ask for an injunction.

    Saward is technically right in what he’s saying. If I’ve made a mistake in the above, apologies but thats how I understand the situation. The whole point of it going to court is that the contract provisions are either not satisfactory or that the contract itself has been terminated prematurely.

    If it does not go to court, however, then we’ll know that the payout was sufficient. Until then, Saward is speculating what will happen if it is not sufficient – and in that respect, he is right.

    I do completely agree that he sees Liuzzi in a different league to the rest of us and that he is biased if only because he likes Liuzzi, but on this occasion, his “what if” scenario is correct.

    @ GeeMac completely agree about the picture!

  • Profile picture of sw6569 sw6569 said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    @Tommy

    I’d say the reason that he thinks Liuzzi is good is twofold. Firstly that Liuzzi dominated the lower categories (as much as Hamilton or Hulkenberg did). The second is that Liuzzi has been badly treated for his F1 career. He’s never really been given much opportunity – with the exception of this year. On the face of it, Liuzzi didn’t do that well, but he also didn’t do as badly as his critics suggest.

    I’m unsure really as to how good he is.

  • Profile picture of ed24f1 ed24f1 said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    Well if you read what Joe said in the comments section, it seems his argument is more about the ethics of modern F1 rather than any particular like for Liuzzi.

    “It is not about Liuzzi. It is about morality. I believe that F1 should be run in an ethical manner. If you think that it is better to live like animals and stab one another in the back whenever and wherever you choose then that is up to you. Maybe that is a world that you want. I don’t and I am willing to stand up and say it. F1 is not nice, but it would probably be better off it there were fewer unethical people involved and could attract the big family-oriented money”

  • Profile picture of Maciek Maciek said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    So I’m going to cheaply repost what I posted in another thread, but it fits, so: many people have taken to automatically talking about ‘bias’ when what they mean is ‘different opinion’. And I don’t necessarily mean the whole British bias stuff – go through the site and see how many time the word is casually thrown around; it’s getting beaten to death! When you have an opinion that’s an opinion, to be biased you have to deliberately skew or omit facts in presenting an argument.

    And besides, most people who scream ‘bias’ are just dissatisfied with someone else’s opinion and it’s so much easier to throw dirt around than to actually come up with solid arguments yourself.

  • Profile picture of Dizzy-A Dizzy-A said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you MISTER JOE SAWARD!

    I remember when he used to write for GrandPrix.com in 2004.

    His Monaco headline was “Ding-dong, the witch is dead!”, which just made it more laughable when Schumacher won the next 7 races.

    I usually avoid calling people biased, since i’d rather find a proper argument to make my points. It’s also pretty silly how often Keith is accused of being biased for judging Hamilton as the best driver of 2010. I didn’t agree (I rated Alonso and Vettel ahead of him), but I could easily see the viewpoint of those who did think HAM was #1.

  • Profile picture of DavidS DavidS said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    If I look at the front page at the moment (28th Jan), there’s six articles on Ferrari and not one of them is critical!!!

    Clearly Keith is a blatant Ferrari fanboy.

    Or maybe, accusations of bias are bollocks.

  • Profile picture of Keith Collantine Keith Collantine said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    If I look at the front page at the moment (28th Jan), there’s six articles on Ferrari and not one of them is critical!!!

    Clearly Keith is a blatant Ferrari fanboy.

    Damn, my secret’s out :-)

  • Profile picture of Dougy_D Dougy_D said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    Keep up the good work Keith!

  • Profile picture of Calum Calum said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    I tried to comment as bias free as possible, until the F1F live gp feed in Turkey, when the Red Bulls crashed I went “YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSS” as Lewis stole the lead! :D

  • Profile picture of Hare Hare said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    I’m sure we have some emotional bias towards one or the other, we’re not clinically balanced and unemotional about the topic, but we are passionate, hooked maybe. If not, the site would be better named F1 Clinical Digest, or some such, not F1 Fanatic.

    I’m sure bias exhibits my comments from time to time, sometimes strongly. However, when someone accuses me of being biased because I’m British, this is simply, shallow, and based on the assumption that all British people blindly support British teams. One chap recently turned out to be Scottish and accusing the English of bias. Hopefully that same man will find some joy in seeing a Scot on the track again and perhaps lay off the bloody minded presumptions.

    Brits, are, in most cases, quite fair an balanced I feel, as a multicultural society and not having a great deal to be proud of these days, but there are elements that are overtly biased and unfair. The press does come up with nonsense to sell papers, and it does turn my stomach very literally when I hear about it. I go out of my way to avoid the British Press tbh, unless its the beeb, or occasionally Sky. I follow some key blogs and if the exhibit the same temperament I like to have, then it’s agreeable to me to keep reading.

    Having said that, there are many people from other nations that come out with outrageous bias that takes me back to my early childhood, when kids used to go on about how their dads could fly, and made a million pounds an hour.

    All accusations of strong biased based on supposed nationality, are shallow, unfair, and frankly, a waste of our time as the majority of regulars here are knowledgable, appreciative and respectful of the teams, the drivers, and the efforts and pains they go through to make the sport work. Some have quite an incredible knowledge which makes me wonder if they have any time for a rewarding social life.. ;)

    I’m certainly not knocking passion for teams, drivers etc, but.. it’s an intelligent sport, with intelligent amateur punditry going on, and the gap in class is evident when someone ruins it all by spouting supposed nonsense like a spoilt child.

    I’m sure this is along the general lines of thought for many of us here.. so this is an out pouring of minor frustrations on the subject, and I hope it’s added and enriched the debate a little :)

  • Profile picture of Funkyf1 Funkyf1 said 2 years, 4 months ago:

    Bias is one thing, ignorance is another. Why can’t people just except others opinions instead of always having the last say?

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