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Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel – The most complete…

This topic contains 69 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Kingshark Kingshark 1 year, 8 months ago.

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  • #132261
    Avatar of Younger Hamii
    Younger Hamii
    Participant

    One of the most common & complex debates in F1 is who out of the renowned ‘top 3′ drivers on the grid today is the best. It is always difficult to answer that question due to the fact that albeit Hamilton & Alonso at McLaren in 2007, they haven’t gone head-to-head with the other in equal machinery, of course it’s easy & feeble for some to say Hamilton is better than Alonso because he beat the latter in equal machinery in their indelible & turbulent stint together as team-mates but a lot has happened & changed in five years & many have claimed Alonso to be the most complete driver of them all as well as Vettel being almost impervious once he goes past the first corner in the lead with superior machinery & Hamilton coming into his own in wet conditions. Tangible & intangible facts & stories have left us with strong & not so strong opinions as there is always something to support why one of the three excels or lacks in certain areas. Anyway, today – I may have found the answer as to who is the most complete of the three & subsequently, the best.

    So I’ve listed several primary elements involving what makes a driver great or successful, the following:

    -Qualifying speed/Speed over 1 lap – It’s all natural & uncanny talent.
    -Overtaking – Audacity & tenacity as well as intelligence.
    -Consistency – In driver performance, not just results.
    -Technicality – Concerning the finest details in regards to the regulations, rules, fundamentals of car & track layout.
    -Car-setup
    -Race starts – Self-explantory!
    -Speed in wet/mixed conditions – Feeling for the track in varying conditions can alter the normality in terms of consummate speed in the dry.
    -Decision-making – You can’t always lean on the team for answers, acknowledging the car’s behaviour & feel it has on the track (drivers actually have the better knowledge of the car when they’re out on track, team-personnel just have telemetry) as well as the surroundings & situations, all should come down to personal choice.
    -Communication with team-personnel, particularly race engineers & pit-crew – Slightly inconceivable in some aspects.
    -Personality – There is more to the driver than what they do out on track

    Of course, they’re likely to be more elements that form a driver’s quality overall but these are just what I think are the most vital elements required for one. What I want you guys to do, obviously there’s still the factor of opinion involved, is to list from 1 to 3, who excels & lacks for every area covered above & it would be helpful to explain why that driver excels in the particular area with a real-life example.

    Example to clarify:

    - Qualifying speed/Speed over 1 lap
    1. Hamilton
    2. Vettel
    3. Alonso

    THEN – Add up the amount of 1s, 2s & 3s each driver has – & perhaps you’ve got your answer. Good luck! (and do not be biased!).

    #213249
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    I’d separate speed in wet and speed in mixed conditions.
    Button seems to be one of the best in mixed conditions, but not when in pure wet.

    #213250
    Avatar of Bob
    Bob
    Participant

    Quite the scientific method you’ve come up with! I have tried to approach this as dispassionately and unbiased as possible.

    - Qualifying speed/Speed over 1 lap
    1. Vettel – The man is a master at stringing together “ultimate laps”. Looking at his record, he has 34 pole positions to his name, more than Hamilton and Alonso.
    2. Hamilton – He’s widely credited as one of the fastest drivers on raw pace, has 24 career pole positions
    3. Alonso – Alonso is quick, but doesn’t strike me as a qualifying master as much as Hamilton or Vettel. Has 22 career poles.

    - Overtaking
    1. Alonso – He’s famed as a master of the swift first lap overtake. Furthermore, China 2010 comes to mind, where he cleaved his way up the field from 15th to 4th.
    2. Vettel – Despite all the naysayers, Vettel has quite a few impressive maneuvers under his belt, with Italy 2011, Belgium 2012 being some examples.
    3. Hamilton – He staked his reputation as an overtaking master, and proved it with his tactical pass on Vettel in China 2011.

    - Consistency
    1. Vettel – 2011 was a demonstration of Vettel’s near-clinical consistency, when he rarely put a foot wrong.
    2.. Alonso – The man has consistently pushed the limits of his car’s performance, and almost always extracted the best possible results.
    3. Hamilton – Hamilton’s form strikes me as more erratic than Vettel or Alonso, highly susceptible to external factors, evident from his 2011 slump.

    - Technicality
    1. Alonso – This category was a tough one to call, but I’ll give it to Alonso. Look at this year’s German GP, and you’ll see how he, in skirting the track border and playing the DRS game, knows how to use the rules to his advantage.
    2. Vettel – From a discussion on the Forum about Vettel’s domination of Tilke circuits, it was suggested that he learns track layouts quickly.
    3. Hamilton – Let’s just say he’s had his fair share of run-ins with the stewards.

    - Car Setup
    1. Vettel – Has almost always optimized the car for the given situation.
    2. Alonso – Same reason as Vettel.
    3. Hamilton – Hamilton seems to have relatively more issues in configuring his car setup, such as the recent Japanese GP.

    - Race Starts
    1. Alonso – He’s had some great starts, and, if I have my facts straight, has a good record of gaining track position on the opening lap.
    2. Vettel – When starting from pole position, Vettel has proven a master at eking out the all-important gap to the chasing pack.
    3. Hamilton – Hamilton’s starts have been, in comparison, rather hit or miss.

    - Speed in wet/mixed conditions
    1. Hamilton – Japan 2007, where he took a hat trick, proved that Hamilton can perform especially well in the rain.
    2. Alonso – This year’s Malaysian GP showed that Alonso is also capable of good results in changing conditions.
    3. Vettel – Somehow, it strikes me that some of Vettel’s weakest showings (such as Belgium 2010 and Germany 2011) have been wet races.

    - Decision-making
    1. Alonso – Another tough category to call, and I’ll give it to Alonso, for the reason that he’s good at pacing himself relative to tire wear, and at strategy calls.
    2. Hamilton – Has the same strengths as Alonso, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent.
    3. Vettel – At times, like this year’s Hungarian GP, he’s come on the team radio complaining about the need for strategy to get him out of a bind.

    - Communication
    1. Alonso – Yet another difficult category… I’ll say Alonso. His team radio excerpts spoken in Italian show a certain level of communication with the team.
    2. Vettel – Looking at Red Bull’s development pace, Vettel’s feedback has to be of some standard so as to provide useful info for Newey and company.
    3. Hamilton – Tough to ascertain from his team radio calls, but I’d place Hamilton third here.

    - Personality (I consider myself biased for this one, so instead, I asked friends and family for their opinion on the drivers)
    1. Vettel – My acquaintances who follow F1 usually cited him as the “nicest” of the trio here. Several cited his general candor during his interviews and Top Gear appearance.
    2. Alonso – Those who I asked were relatively neutral on Alonso, though some were passionate supporters of his. Many said he was the most pragmatic of the three.
    3. Hamilton – Not sure why, but my family members have an irrational hatred of Hamilton, and many referred to his generally sulky demeanor. Personally speaking, I don’t see what’s wrong with him, save for his occasional trip-ups like careless comments and the Tweeting Telemetry fiasco.

    TOTAL
    Alonso – 5 (1s), 4 (2s), 1 (3s)
    Vettel – 4 (1s), 4 (2s), 2 (3s)
    Hamilton – 1 (1s), 2 (2s), 7 (3s)

    Which is pretty much how I would rank them. Alonso seems to be the most “complete” driver, but I must credit all three – each excels in his own speciality.

    #213251
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    Qualifying speed
    Pretty much speaks for itself doesn’t it?
    1. Vettel
    2. Hamilton
    3. Alonso

    Overtaking
    Hamilton is very much a hit or miss character, but I’d still name him overtake king. Vettel is hard to judge because his Red Bull is permanently lacking top speed, but when he does overtake, it’s generally a beauty. Fernando is just solid.
    1. Hamilton
    2. Vettel
    2. Alonso

    Consistency
    Consistency made 2011 look more dominant than the car was and is what makes this year’s championship a close call between two cars that are not the season-fastest (so far).
    1. Vettel
    1. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Technicality
    Vettel has always been hailed as a driver with great technical knowledge. He probably spends more time studying data in a weekend than Hamilton in a year.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Car-setup
    No other driver seems to have such a big gap between FP ranking and qualifying ranking. Vettel tries set-ups as long as he needs to be happy with it, and is not affraid to take gambles (China). Hamilton is (unfortunately) known to be more of a copy-paste driver.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Race starts
    Hard to say really. Neither of them really seem to screw up often.
    1. Vettel
    1. Hamilton
    1. Alonso

    Speed in wet
    When it’s really wet, both Vettel and Hamilton have been seen flying (not literally).
    1. Vettel
    1. Hamilton
    3. Alonso

    Speed mixed conditions
    Alonso seems to have the edge here.
    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    2. Hamilton

    Decision-making
    Both Vettel and Alonso seem to be very good at making up their own mind.
    1. Vettel
    1. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Communication with team-personnel
    Alonso seems to be good at ‘running the place’ while Vettel is often praised for his good feedback.
    1. Alonso
    1. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    Personality
    I don’t like rappers or politicians.
    1. Vettel
    2. Hamilton
    2. Alonso

    Final ranking
    1. Vettel (13 pts)
    2. Alonso (19 pts)
    3. Hamilton (24 pts)

    #213252
    Avatar of James Brickles
    James Brickles
    Participant

    -Qualifying speed/Speed over 1 lap – It’s all natural & uncanny talent.
    Unquestionably Vettel at the moment is the fastest over one lap, probably helped by his Red Bull but he’s the one that makes it count, shortly followed by Hamilton and Alonso. Fernando hasn’t been the pole sitter king recently but tends to make it up in the races.
    1. Vettel
    2. Hamilton
    3. Alonso

    -Overtaking – Audacity & tenacity as well as intelligence.
    Tough one to call this as none of them stand out this season. It’s probably Alonso for me based on Valencia and the fact he hasn’t got into as many incidents overall than the other two.
    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    -Consistency – In driver performance, not just results.
    Alonso is still the best in this category, it definitely won him the 2005 championship. Vettel’s 2011 championship winning season put him a close second. Hamilton has improved since the 2011 but he falls short.
    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    -Technicality – Concerning the finest details in regards to the regulations, rules, fundamentals of car & track layout.
    Well Red Bull are the masters/bad boys in regard to the regulations which helps Vettel somewhat. Alonso is much more adaptable to situations though which gives him an edge.
    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    -Car-setup
    Certainly with the monopoly of Tilke tracks, this has played nicely into Vettel’s hands as his driving style suits the long straight-hard braking-tight slow corner. The McLaren is very sensitive to set-up perfectly so 3rd may sound harsh on Hamilton but let’s not forget that Vettel and Alonso have one more champion each than Lewis.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    -Race starts – Self-explantory!
    Alonso has always been mega off the line dating back to his early Renault days of 2003. The Red Bull’s system can be a little inconsistent but Vettel usually gets his starts right. Hamilton isn’t too bad on his starts either. None of these three are bad at starts.
    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    -Speed in wet/mixed conditions – Feeling for the track in varying conditions can alter the normality in terms of consummate speed in the dry.
    All three of these drivers are half-decent in the rain but none of them in my view can be classed as the next Jean Alesi. If I had to pick one, Alonso would just edge it ahead of Hamilton and Vettel. Lewis is better when it’s wetter but something goes wrong for him in changing conditions. None of these three are as good as Sergio Perez in terms of raw speed in the rain.
    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    -Decision-making – You can’t always lean on the team for answers, acknowledging the car’s behaviour & feel it has on the track (drivers actually have the better knowledge of the car when they’re out on track, team-personnel just have telemetry) as well as the surroundings & situations, all should come down to personal choice.
    None of these three beat Jenson Button but none of these three can be classed as bad. Tough to pick just one of them, but Vettel seems the most reliant on his team.
    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    -Communication with team-personnel, particularly race engineers & pit-crew – Slightly inconceivable in some aspects.
    All three drivers communicate with their personnel very well but Alonso’s communication in different languages help him. ;)
    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    -Personality – There is more to the driver than what they do out on track
    Definitely Vettel seems to have the more enjoyable personality off track. Tough one between Alonso and Hamilton, to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt, he hasn’t been on top gear yet ;)
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Of course it’s all opinions so don’t over read them. Lets also consider that Alonso has at least 5 more season’s worth of experience than Vettel and Hamilton.
    Alonso. 1st – 7, 2nd – 2, 3rd – 1
    Vettel. 1st – 3, 2nd – 3, 3rd – 4
    Hamilton. 1st – 0, 2nd – 5, 3rd – 5

    #213253
    Avatar of Antonio Nartea
    Antonio Nartea
    Participant

    Let’s see.

    - Qualifying speed/Speed over 1 lap:

    there’s no question Vettel has this one. Provided with the right setup he finds resources in those cars neither Alonso or Hamilton could get near. Hamilton gets second as he’s the more risk-assuming character – something that often pays off – of the remainder two, while Alonso gets 3rd.

    1. Vettel
    2. Hamilton
    3. Alonso

    - Overtaking:

    I’m gonna say it’s almost a tie between Alonso and Hamilton here. Alonso has the technique but lacks the desire to win at all costs thus making him more conservative, Hamilton has the spectacle and the speed but lacks patience and judgement at times. Vettel comes third as he proved, not once, that he’s not the same force on track when he starts in midfield.

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    - Consistency:

    1. Vettel – rarely makes a mistake
    2. Alonso – I would have said he’s on par with Vettel but Monza and Japan proved it’s not quite so.
    3. Hamilton – generally the least consistent of the three, by far.

    - Technicality:

    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    - Car-setup:

    Obviously Vettel’s input in setting up a car entirely or almost, built for him means he will nail it more often than others. Alonso also comes close as he proved he could get more than the maximum out of a dog of a car just using his setup and driving skills.

    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    - Race starts:

    Vettel is 100% unbeatable when he starts from the front row. Alonso tends to take leaps as well while Hamilton got in more than a tangle on the grid over the course of the last couple of years.

    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    - Speed in wet/mixed conditions:

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    - Decision-making:

    Alonso obviously takes care of this aspect in the best way possible, followed closely by Hamilton who, not once, relied on nothing but his judgement and instinct to drive and bring the car home. Vettel always seems a bit lost without Horner’s advice.

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    - Communication:

    Alonso, always politically correct and walking the line both in and outside the pit walls. Vettel lashed out a couple of times this season at his engineers and he is generally grumpy when they don’t get it right for him. Hamilton, needless to say more…

    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    - Personality:

    I’m gonna give this to Hamilton and Alonso. Vettel’s image and personality looks less genuine than theirs. It’s all made up and carefully built by Red Bull and is promoted that way as well. Hamilton’s tends to be a bit distasteful at times while Alonso always looks like the good guy, in almost every aspect. Since he’s with Ferrari at least. Everyone likes a good guy…

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    So…in

    TOTAL:

    1. Alonso – 15p
    2. Vettel – 20p
    3. Hamilton – 28p

    Nothing unexpected, I guess. It’s the way things looked in the WDC as well up until the last couple of races. :)

    #213254
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    What an absolutely fascinating experiment.

    -Qualifying speed/Speed over 1 lap
    I don’t believe that anyone can beat Vettel in this regard, and I’m dead serious. Vettel has a fantastic immediate feel for the grip and surface while his peers seem to need to build up to a bit more of a rhythm, as is demonstrated by how Vettel always leaves them for dead at race starts and restarts when he’s in the lead. Though there are times when Lewis is able to do this, he doesn’t do it as often as Vettel.
    1. Vettel
    2. Hamilton
    3. Alonso
    
-Overtaking
Since 2007 Hamilton’s overtaking prowess has never been in doubt. Alonso shines in this in that he picks his fights – he’s more likely to pull out of a 50/50 manoeuvre with Maldonado because he knows of Maldonado’s history, while he would do it with a Di Resta or a Button because they’re the cleaner drivers who keep their noses clean. Vettel is actually quite good at overtaking in the wet – see China 2009 or 2010 for example. However I’ve never considered dry weather overtakes to be a Vettel strength, and his fight backs such as Silverstone 2010 are quite clumsy, such as using Sutil as a brake on the penultimate lap there. Spa seems to be a turning point, but I think this is still a skill-in-training rather than a matured ability.
    1. Hamilton
    2. Alonso
    3. Vettel

    -Consistency
Tough one IMO, but I think this season and last puts Hamilton and Alonso as standouts, though sadly at opposite ends of the spectrum.
    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    -Technicality
    Vettel IMO is the quickest learner of the three. One just has to look at his record at “new” circuits to see this. Valencia and Singapore 08, Abu Dhabi 09, Korea 2010 and India 2011 all saw him driving extremely well – and even on track he likes to experiment with new lines, and he commented in Suzuka 2012 qualifying and Belgium 2011 qualifying that he found new racing lines. Alonso is a Prost-like master of the behind the scenes politics, and he seems to know how to skirt the regulations without knocking them over
1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    -Car-setup
We’ve very often seen Vettel struggle in FP1 and FP2, only to make overnight changes to see him back on the pace in FP3. Hamilton seems to not really be strong on setup. It’s telling that over his F1 career, his setups have reportedly been basically copies of Alonso’s/Kovalainen’s/Button’s.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    -Race starts
This is a dicey one. The Red Bull often does not seem to be the best off the line, so we have to compare between teammates. There was a time in 2010 when Alonso would get killed at each and every race start by Massa. Vettel generally seems to be a better starter than Webber, but Webber has always been a rubbish starter anyways. Hamilton seems to be average in race starts. If you were taking first laps into account, I’d give it to Vettel. But if you were talking of until the first corner, when the pack shuffles into a line, then I’d have to give it to Alonso on balance of good 1st corner tactics.
    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    -Speed in wet/mixed conditions
Have to say I think this goes to Vettel. He’s generally been very good in the wet. The last two full wet (not changing) races in F1 have been won by Vettel. Alonso has only ever achieved his good wet results this year IMO, and in my view that’s down to the car. One just has to look at Friday practice in Silverstone and Malaysia – that Ferrari was brutally murdering the softer tyres by putting too much heat into them. However in the cold weather that extra heat became a boon. Hamilton in the past has been good in the wet, but his teammate has generally been close in the wet except for Kovalainen. I think there’s wet speed in there, but I think it’s also due to car. After all – the McLaren was the only car to actually go quicker in the wet in Belgium 2010 qualifying, and the recent McLarens have always been earliest onto the drier slicks or intermediates, and other teams that copy the move can’t get heat into them quickly.
    1. Vettel
    2. Hamilton
    3. Alonso

    -Decision-making
Hamilton is babied a great deal by his team, and asks for it too. His inability (or fear) of saying no to his team is apparent from Melbourne 2010 and Hungary 2011. I feel that Vettel has a better strategic nous on the fly, and on track he is able to think of alternate strategies, such as his mid-stint switches to 1-stop strategies in Belgium 2012 or Monaco 2011. Alonso has a similar split-second ability to judge a situation to see whether or not an overtake is possible. Vettel seems to be catching up in this department though, and he beat Alonso to the punch in converting to a late 2-stop in Canada which IMO edges him over Alonso.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    -Communication with team-personnel, particularly race engineers & pit-crew
I’ve had the recent good luck of being in the paddock in Singapore – Korea, including the pit lane on some occasions. I saw at several points that Vettel was going as far as making cool drinks (I’m talking along the lines of iced tea or lemonade rather than opening cold canned drinks) and actually making them sandwiches. You saw that Vettel really was a loved character, a central hero around whom they rallied about. Alonso I didn’t see doing these, but we have to give him credit – he was always all business. Hamilton, I think his “tricking terrible idea” and “Don’t talk to me while I’m racing PLEASE!” radio messages tell a big part of the story.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    -Personality
    In the last 3 races where I’ve had the good fortune of being a paddock goer I met all three folks. Vettel was such a good sport – even when you asked to take a photo with him he would be the one to make funny faces or be doing something silly, rather than the “look into the camera and smile” style. I have to say I was rather peeved with Hamilton – who said he was going to be right back as he had to do something, but never came back. Alonso is actually, funnily enough – quite shy. He’s not the kind who will directly joke with you, though he will offer smiles to his fans.
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Personally I don’t think personality should fall into deciding a driver’s greatness – if you had two teammates, one with a title, the other just a race winner but Mr. Congeniality, I’d still rate the champion higher (most probably). I also think some of these shouldn’t be weighed in the same weighting – I think some deserve more weighting than others. But in the spirit of keeping to the thread…

    Vettel 1st-6, 2nd-3, 3rd-1 (13 total)
    Alonso 1st-3, 2nd-5, 3rd-2 (19 total)
    Hamilton 1st-1, 2nd-2, 3rd-7 (26 total)

    #213255
    Avatar of Pamphlet
    Pamphlet
    Participant

    Qualifying speed
    1. Hamilton (2.5p)
    1. Vettel (2.5p)
    3. Alonso (1p)

    This one is surprisingly tough. Over one lap and one lap alone, Hamilton is utterly phenomenal, and I’d dare say he’s one of the all-time greatest in that regard, but throw just one wrench in his plans and he’s toast. Vettel can string laps together quite nicely, but his sheer qualifying pace is not the greatest (as evidenced by how often Webber’s been near or above him this year), and he’s also somewhat weak to minor problems.

    Overtaking
    1. Hamilton (3p)
    2. Vettel (1.5p)
    2. Alonso (1.5p)

    Easy. Hamilton is clearly above his two rivals in this regard. Vettel isn’t usually all that willing to overtake, but when he has to do it he pulls off some stunning moves. Alonso is a bit more balanced.

    Consistency
    1. Vettel (3p)
    2. Alonso (2p)
    3. Hamilton (1p)

    Technicality
    1. Vettel (3p)
    2. Alonso (2p)
    3. Hamilton (1p)

    Nobody really stands out here.

    Car-setup
    1. Vettel (3p)
    2. Alonso (2p)
    3. Hamilton (1p)

    Race starts
    1. Alonso (3p)
    2. Vettel (2p)
    3. Hamilton (1p)

    Speed in wet
    1. Hamilton (3p)
    2. Vettel (1.5p)
    2. Alonso (1.5p)

    Speed mixed conditions
    1. Alonso (3p)
    2. Hamilton (2p)
    3. Vettel (1p)

    Vettel really loses out on this one.

    Decision-making
    1. Vettel (3p)
    2. Alonso (2p)
    3. Hamilton (1p)

    Communication with team-personnel
    1. Vettel (3p)
    2. Alonso (2p)
    3. Hamilton (1p)

    Personality
    1. Vettel (3p)
    2. Hamilton (1.5p)
    2. Alonso (1.5p)

    Vettel is an easy winner here, though I’m not all that fond of his ‘anti-technology’ stance. I don’t see what’s wrong with sulking, and Alonso is much more of a whiner than Hamilton. I’d like to put Alonso higher, especially since he’s a weeaboo and everything, but unlike his two rivals, he lacks kindness and I do not value honesty highly.

    Final ranking
    1. Vettel (23.5p)
    2. Alonso (20p)
    3. Hamilton (16.5p)

    I did not take their personalities into account, simply because they have nothing to do with racing.

    #213256
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    Qualifying speed

    1.) Vettel
    2.) Hamilton
    3.) Alonso

    Overtaking

    1.) Alonso
    2.) Hamilton
    3.) Vettel

    Consistency

    1.) Vettel
    2.) Alonso
    3.) Hamilton

    Technicality

    1.) Alonso
    2.) Vettel
    3.) Hamilton

    Car-setup

    1.) Vettel
    2.) Alonso
    3.) Hamilton

    Race starts

    1.) Alonso
    2.) Vettel
    3.) Hamilton

    Speed in wet

    1.) Hamilton
    2.) Alonso
    3.) Vettel

    Mixed Conditions

    1.) Alonso
    2.) Hamilton
    3.) Vettel

    Decision-making

    1.) Vettel
    2.) Alonso
    3.) Hamilton

    Communication with team-personnel

    1.) Vettel
    2.) Alonso
    3.) Hamilton

    Personality

    1.) Vettel
    2.) Alonso
    3.) Hamilton

    Final Ranking

    Assuming first place is 3 points, second is 2 points, and last is worth 1 point; right?

    1.) Alonso – 25 points
    1.) Vettel – 25 points
    3.) Hamilton – 16 points

    #213257
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    I will try and be as honest as I can possibly be and try to overlook my Vettel hatred…

    Qualifying speed
    I have to give this one to Vettel…. He did have the best equipment in 2011 and that is why he´s ahead in poles but, he does tend to not make mistakes when it comes to qualifying. Hamilton is pure speed in my opinion and Alonso is yet to have a decent car that can help him out on saturdays.

    1. Vettel
    1. Hamilton
    3. Alonso

    Overtaking
    Alonso seems to be able to make the most exciting passes… Hamilton isn´t far off and Vettel, well, I haven´t seen him that far behind to really say he has done some great comebacks…

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    Consistency
    Alonso just runs like clockwork… he always seems to have perfect races and it shows by the amount of podium finishes he has to his name. Vettel was consistent in 2011… 2010 and 2012 where very dodgy performances. Hamilton, well… he´s just driven by passion an that is what gets him into trouble, needs to chill out a whole lot.

    1. Alonso
    2. Vettel
    3. Hamilton

    Technicality
    Had to give it to all three… although out of the three, Hamilton is the weakest and I would have to say that Alonso is on top of Vettel because of greater experience… Remember…. out of the three I think Alonso is the only one that had a taste of V10 power and he did well with it!

    1. Alonso
    1. Vettel
    1. Hamilton

    Car-setup
    RBR seems to know Vettel´s driving style and they try to give him what he needs… proof of it is this 2012 season… they have totally redesigned the car around him to suit his needs. Alonso, well he just has a nack for it… he always sets up the car the best he can and always over drives the cars limits. Hamilton…. well lets just say he had a good “teacher”.

    1. Vettel(RBR)
    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton

    Race starts
    Alonso hands down…. His starts have been epic! He has always made up ground on his starts and is very good at it. Hamilton, although a very hit or miss type driver in this segment, he has had a few good starts. Vettel, well, it´s hard to judge opening race laps when you´re on pole most of the time(2011), 2012 although he has missed poles, he still lacks the “wow” factor when it comes to starts.

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    Speed in wet
    Hamilton and Alonso are equal in this aspect… but I have to give it to Alonso by just a bit since I have seen some memorable wet races from him. Hamilton most of the time has good wet races. Vettel seems to buckle in wet conditions. Canada(I think this was it)2011 comes to mind.

    1. Alonso
    1. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    Speed mixed conditions
    Alonso takes this one… Malaysia, Silverstone and Germany come to mind, may it be Qualyfying or race… He always seems to be good at reading the grip on the track. Vettel, if he has the best machinery can be just as good. Hamilton, same as Vettel.

    1. Alonso
    1. Vettel
    1. Hamilton

    Decision-making
    I have to give this to Alonso as well… the times when he does not make the decisions himself, he gets them wrong (Abu Dhabi 2010) but he usually tends to make good calls. Vettel and Hamilton are the biggest losers in this department…. Hamilton is too dependant on the team to make his decisions. Vettel, well, recent radio transmitions have left him naked to the fact that he needs the team to get him out of jams…

    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton
    3. Vettel

    Communication with team-personnel
    Vettel takes this one…. it´s obvious he´s on the radio quite a lot to get out of jams. He might look a bit of a brat over the radio some times but it just shows the team and himself are very in sync. Alonso, he´s just a bit off on this one but still up there…. The Italian communicating over the radio just shows that he has grown attached to the Italian passion for Ferrari. Hamilton… he comes off as if he´s scalding the team… I don´t like his communication over the radio…

    1. Vettel
    1. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Personality
    Vettel also takes this one (just goes to show how unbiased I´m trying to be) and although I personally dislike him (I feel he´s a big fake) the way he comes over the TV makes him likeable (not me though) to the audience. Alonso, I will admit he comes off as arrogant, but in reality, he is not like that at all…. he´s just quiet and tends to keep to himself. He signed my helmet a few months ago in Madrid and seemed like a very likeable guy! Hamilton, well, he comes off as arrogant but I like the “badboy” image he has made up for himself… it suits him.

    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Hamilton

    Final ranking

    1. Alonso 9 x 1, 1 x 2, 1 x 3 (14 pts)
    2. Vettel 6 x 1, 1 x 2, 4 x 3 (20 pts)
    3. Hamilton 4 x 1, 4 x 2, 3 x 3 (21 pts)

    Wow…. I thought Lewis would come out a clear second…(I still think Hamilton is better though! LMAO)
    BTW… I multyplied each set of results and then added them… the lower the number, the better the result!

    #213258
    Avatar of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    It is very hard and too early to make these statements about these 3 drivers. Alonso we have more data on and the 2007 season with Lewis will always loom as the question mark in everyone’s minds. How can anyone be the best and lose to a rookie? That makes no sense…
    However, Lewis may have pushed Alonso to become an even better driver at Ferrari just as Alonso initially spurred Lewis on to try and be as good as Alonso. Alonso 2012 might be way better than Alonso 2007…

    Hamilton 2012 is absolutely flawless – just incredible and very reserved (even with Twittergate) given the disastrous season he has had.

    Vettel is impossible to gauge in the RB7/RB8. Anyone who has seen Vettel driving from the onboard camera knows that the car is self-steered literally (I make more corrections taking my 5 yo to school at 40 mph) and perhaps Vettel’s real skill lies in his ability to let the car do its job with minimal intervention while Mark Webber overdrives the car.

    The true test for Vettel would have been having Hamilton/Alonso/Raikonnen/Button as a teammate. Then we’d probably be able to see or extrapolate his overall skill. Of course, Vettel would rather die than have Hamilton or Alonso as his teammate so fat chance of that happening. He’s smart enough not to let Raikonnen near him but might have the ego to accept Button but that won’t happen now that Button is so firmly entrenched at McLaren.

    We just have to wait and see.

    #213259
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @freelittlebirds

    Vettel is impossible to gauge in the RB7/RB8. Anyone who has seen Vettel driving from the onboard camera knows that the car is self-steered literally (I make more corrections taking my 5 yo to school at 40 mph)

    I call BS. You do realise that making corrections is the sign of a overstepping the limit, of course? With any car – a slow car, quick car, balanced car, malhandling car – needing to make a correction means you’ve overstepped the limit and have to correct. If a driver knows his car will oversteer or understeer at X kph at Corner Y, he will drive at X-0.001 kph, because that will be quicker than having to correct for over/understeer. Having worked in motorsport – you never want to have a driver be constantly correcting, because it means he’s constantly making mistakes – however small.

    I am not saying that a car that looks on rails means a perfect driver, but the common (mis-)conception that a car which looks on rails means a driver driving under the limit is a fallacy.

    A driver driving at 99.9% as opposed to 100.1%, will be more consistent, quicker, and more economical in terms of tyres, fuel and driving inputs.

    Now before some of the karters amongst you start saying “hey, my kart is quicker if I slide the rear around in corners, and drive straight between the corners” – yes, but what you have to remember is a kart has no differential. So it basically wants to run in a straight line. That’s why karts are set-up to lift the inner rear wheel. In that way you would avoid the drag and understeer caused by the lack of a differential.

    Now that I’m happy with that…

    The true test for Vettel would have been having Hamilton/Alonso/Raikonnen/Button as a teammate

    Yes, I agree in principle – a driver generally has to be compared to his teammate, who has equal machinery at his disposal. Remember though that even that’s not perfect because some cars suit some drivers more than it suits others. But until a drver drives against a “knkown quantity” then… he’s not, basically. Whether or not Mark is a known quantity is another issue. I don’t think Mark is of the Hamilton/Alonso level, but I’ve always felt the guy is underrated. He had, after all, quite a lot of front row starts in that Jaguar and he’s always been able to pull out a decent result out of any donkey kart in Monaco.

    Vettel would rather die than have Hamilton or Alonso as his teammate so fat chance of that happening

    I don’t think that’s a fair assessment. We’ve seen and heard nothing from Vettel about this matter, and whether or not he would be agreeable to it. If the rumors are to be believed about Vettel signing for Ferrari then that would mean he has been at least agreeable to the possibility of Alonso as a teammate. I know Ferrari are denying any and all rumors, but remember how Ferrari were vehemently denying Alonso had signed for them, even 3 days before the Alonso-Ferrari announcement? They strongly denied Schumacher’s signing too, back in 1995.

    But the statement which I will agree with you 100% on:

    It is very hard and too early to make these statements about these 3 drivers

    It’s too early IMO. We should be comparing them post-career. Vettel and Hamilton IMO aren’t really supposed to be compared to Alonso because in my view we’re comparing them at different stages of their careers. I can see them still being around a good few years after Alonso has retired, as Alonso was also already a world champion before they even began their first proper preseason tests.

    #213260
    Avatar of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    @raymondu999
    yes, but if Vettel’s not making corrections and able to dominate as he does then it means the car is fast, not Vettel. Sometimes the RB can pull 0.5 second over a single corner over the 2nd fastest car…

    I’m not saying it doesn’t take skill or that another driver could do it better. It’s just that the car is too much of a factor to assess Vettel.

    Like Alonso has said when a car poles pretty much 80% of the time, “all you can do is tip your hat off and say good job!”

    Vettel is very smart and he has witnessed first hand what a 1-man team strategy has done for him at RB. He has also seen what a 2 driver team strategy has done to Alonso in 2007 and to Hamilton since 2009 and he’s smart enough to know that these two guys are pretty good. If he ever accepts an equal driver, I would be very shocked.

    #213261
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @freelittlebirds

    yes, but if Vettel’s not making corrections and able to dominate as he does then it means the car is fast, not Vettel.

    No it doesn’t – it just means Vettel isn’t overdriving. If Vettel is having to correct AND he dominates that means he’s fast. At this level of motorsport a lap without corrections is for the most part going to be quicker than one with corrections, unless your driver is a complete tool and waste of talent.

    Corrections are a sign of overdriving, which slows you down. If Vettel was driving in a way that he had to make corrections – then he is driving the car slower than it could be driven.

    Corrections are fun to watch, and sometimes impressive. But they are NOT a sign of speed. Almost exactly the opposite, in fact.

    #213263
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @freelittlebirds

    Driving withut needing to correct can also mean you’re hideously slow to the point that you’re always driving within the car – which IMO is what you’re getting at, saying that Vettel is driving within the car and still getting poles – but at such an elite level of motorsport as F1, it can be assumed that this won’t be the case.

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