Group Admins

  • Profile picture of Keith Collantine

Group Mods

  • Profile picture of damonsmedley
  • Profile picture of Bradley Downton

F1

Public Group active 11 hours, 4 minutes ago

F1 discussion

Alonso’s season – how good was it really?

This topic contains 29 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of the_sigman the_sigman 1 year, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #215788
    Avatar of Soph Morgan
    Soph Morgan
    Member

    It was pretty classless of Vettel to have a dig about dirty tricks when he had just won the title. It didn’t need to be said and its not like Red Bull have not been guilty of stretching the spirit of the rules in the past. Vettel needs to watch the underhand comments especially at a time when everyone is congratulating him on a fantastic achievement.

    #215789
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    I think this needs a more level-headed approach (and yes, given time I’ll do the same for all races, all 3 top cars).

    Malaysian Grand Prix
    Race pace:
    Is there reason to believe Vettel and Hamilton could not have matched Alonso’s race pace in his Ferrari considering …both Vettel and Hamilton’s ‘clean air’ times were about as much faster to their team-mates as Alonso’s was to Massa. (FL not representative comparison in wet)

    Is there reason to believe Vettel and Hamilton could not have…
    …overtaken Nico Rosberg in lap 1 (Schumacher and Grosjean clashed) from p8 to p5.
    …overtaken Mark Webber for p4.
    …leapfrogged Button and Hamilton in the pits for p2.
    …overtaken Sergio Perez for p1 and defend against him for the 3 laps he was within 2 seconds.

    European Grand Prix
    Race pace:
    Is there reason to believe Vettel and Hamilton could not have matched Alonso’s race pace in his Ferrari considering…
    …Alonso’s fastest lap was 0.765s faster than his team-mate’s.
    …Hamilton fastest lap was 0.799s faster than his team-mate’s.
    …Vettel was flying today (FL not representative considering DNF).

    On track performance:
    Is there reason to believe Vettel and Hamilton could not have…
    …jumped from p11 to p8 in lap 1 (Massa moved from p13 to p10, also past Rosberg and Button).
    …overtaken Hülkenberg and Maldonado on soft tires, with those two on medium.
    …overtaken Webber, Senna, Schumacher and di Resta on old tires for p4.
    …overtaken Hamilton in the pits for p3 when McLaren screwed up the pit stop.
    …overtaken Grosjean on the restart (not too unsimilair to Vettel’s move on Rosberg in Australia; I have little doubt Lewis could not make that move).
    …picked up the win when the race leader’s alternator failed.

    German Grand Prix
    Is there reason to believe Vettel and Hamilton could not have matched Alonso’s race pace in his Ferrari considering…
    …Alonso’s fastest lap was 0.181s faster than his team-mate’s.
    …Vettel’s fastest lap was 0.325s faster than his team-mate’s.
    …Hamilton brawled with Alonso and Vettel (FL not representative considering DNF).

    On track performance:
    Is there reason to believe Vettel and Hamilton could not have…
    …taken pole position on much fresher tires.
    …lead the race from the front (Massa’s free air pace was not too dissimilar).

    Now, as I have said very often, Fernando Alonso is a great driver, who drove some great races, but there is no reason to Sebastian Vettel or Lewis Hamilton could not have won those races in those circumstances.

    If you believe there is, please point to where Alonso put in a performance the other two great drivers on the great would not have been able to.

    #215790
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    Back to Alonso’s achievement.

    The difference between the Red Bull and the Ferrari this year was arguably smaller than that of Williams to Ferrari in 1997. In both seasons, Alonso and Schumacher excelled. Athough this might have well been Alonso’s greatest season to date (was it really?), Schumacher’s 1997 achievements (minus the Jerez fiasco) can be rated a tad higher.

    #215791
    Avatar of Soph Morgan
    Soph Morgan
    Member

    For me any achievement from 1997 is dissolved by the last event. Schumacher was disqualified from the standings and rightly so. All that hard work for nothing. Its a year to forget really.

    #215792
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @magon4

    difference between the Red Bull and the Ferrari this year was arguably smaller than that of Williams to Ferrari in 1997.

    1997 was far less competitive than 2012. 1997 only had 2 real teams fighting for the championship until the end, where’s 2012 had RBR, Ferrari, Mclaren, Lotus, Sauber, Williams and Mercedes all in winning positions on occasions.

    #215793
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    Agreed.

    #215794
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @mnmracer

    Why do you compare fastest laps when Alonso lapped Massa in Europe and Germany, and very nearly lapped in Malaysia, while Vettel was out-qualified by Webber in Sepang?

    You complaining about Vettel not receiving credit is becoming very funny. I can do that too. Is there any reason to believe that Alonso could not have done everything Vettel did, only better?

    Is there any reason to believe Alonso could not have…

    Bahrain
    - Qualified on pole with the equal best car.
    - Pulled away from Hamilton in a car that was clearly faster on hot tarmac.
    - Made one defensive move on Raikkonen.
    He held back 2 faster cars the whole race long in Germany.

    Singapore
    - Qualified second instead of third on the grid with a car that was clearly capable of the front row.
    - Passed Maldonado at the start who ran wide.
    - Profited from Hamilton’s gearbox failure.
    - Hold back Button in a slightly faster car.

    Japan
    - Out qualify Webber with a car the class of the field.
    - Not block another car on his out lap and slow down in the chicane.
    - Control the race up at front with a rocket ship.

    Korea
    - Qualify on the front row with the best car on the grid.
    - Not be out qualified by Webber.
    - Out start Mark Webber with a sticky second clutch.
    - Again, ease away with the best car up at front.

    India
    - Taken pole position with a car the class of the field.
    - Not miss several apexes on his quick lap.
    - Control the race up at front with the best car.

    Abu Dhabi
    - Overtaken the slow HRT, Marussia and Caterham.
    - Passed Senna without knocking the front wing off.
    - Not run into the DRS sign and blame Ricciardo.
    - Overtake a few slower cars on fresher tyres.
    - Pass Button at the end with DRS and better tyres.

    ???

    #215795
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    @kingshark
    Are you never ashamed of yourself?
    Don’t you ever think about that for a second when you cower with your tail between your legs as you are afraid to answer the topic?
    Do you really think it is not clear as daylight that you are trying to derail because the implied answer does not match up with your perception of reality?

    I know, scary and confrontating big questions you will most likely again be too afraid to answer, as you never dare to answer for tough qustions.
    Now for three easy questions:
    - did I say I was going to make that for all top 3 cars and drivers to compare?
    - did I say that Alonso would not have been able to put in similar performances in the Red Bull?
    - did you derail the subject and not answer the question?

    Now please, be a man, and answer the question.

    #215798
    Avatar of Aditya Banerjee
    Aditya Banerjee
    Participant

    Mnm should be blocked for the forums for his highly offensive tone and choice of words….

    #215799
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    That´s just normal coming from that guy…. Geez… I think he would drink Vetel´s piss if he asked him to… Kind of hilarious in a way but sometimes I just wish i had him face to face…. I know the beef is not with me but geez he needs a good whooping sometimes…

    #215800
    Avatar of Bendanarama
    Bendanarama
    Participant

    Please behave, children.

    #215801
    Avatar of Cronies
    Cronies
    Participant

    Personally it irritates me that they keep going on about the fact he only “raced” 18 out of 20 races. Firstly if you starting 7-8th on average, surely at some stage in a very long season you going to be caught up in a first lap incident? Secondly, relaiblilty is a massive part of building a championship winning car, I think this season showed that it is more important than outright spped if you compare them to McLaren. In many ways the Ferrari was the car to have – specially when the entire team is focused totally on you.

    Just another point, I have read on this site comments saying mechanical failure is not bad luck, i can not agree in Vettels “alternator” case:

    Renualt supply 8 cars engines
    There are 20 races in the season
    160 starts – 4 Alternator failures
    97.5% success
    2 of 4 those alternator failures on Vettels car
    Add to the fact that Renualt had a fuel pick-up problem which probably cost Vettel a win – was that 1 in 160?

    #215802
    Avatar of Asanator
    Asanator
    Participant

    Well yes but one might argue that reliability problems are self inflicted whereas being taken out at the first corner is (perhaps) not.

    #215803
    Avatar of MazdaChris
    MazdaChris
    Participant

    Yes, you could argue that reliability is self inflicted, but you’d be completely wrong to do so. The alternator issues have been a problem for Renault engines for about 6 years now and they’ve still failed to resolve it. Arguably the more competitive the car, the more stressed the engine, and so the greater the likelihood that it’ll fail on a Red Bull than, say, a Caterham. But to try and pin it on the driver himself is clutching at straws a little bit, isn’t it.

    #215804
    Avatar of the_sigman
    the_sigman
    Participant

    @kingshark I agree with you.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.