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Alternative history: the 2008 championship without misfortune (30 posts)

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mnmracer said 1 year, 2 months ago:

In the alternative 2007 championship, McLaren would have won the WCC with 224 points, with Ferrari 1 point behind. Though Hamilton threw many points away, so McLaren was much faster; just not better in the hands of Hamilton/Alonso. Not saying those two are bad, but Hamilton’s made many mistakes and Alonso didn’t seem very comfortable when not at the front.

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Asanator said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@matt90 If McLarens constructors points had not being deducted for the spygate scandal, yes Ferrari would still have won the constructors title.

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matt90 said 1 year, 2 months ago:

That assumes the Hungary DSQ still stood. Had spygate not happened, McLaren would have appealed (and it did seem an overly harsh punishment, in my opinion at least).

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gameprotage said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@mnmracer, anybody watching the 2007 season could see the Ferrari was the faster car, faster at the aero tracks, and faster in a straightline as remarked by both Brundle and Allen. McLaren however had great mechanical grip and traction which helped at tracks such as Monaco and Canada.

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Fixy said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@mnmracer you said Kimi was given the win in Canada, and Massa finished 3rd ahead of Glock and Coulthard – i.e.:
1st Raikkonen
2nd Kubica
3rd Massa
4th Coulthard
5th Glock
But you have left out Heidfeld! I think Massa should be 4th, but if you want to explain it, you’re more than welcome!

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Deleted User said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@ed24f1 the problem for me about 05 was the design philosophies. Sure, Kimi had a lot of failures but that was the risk of building such a fragile but quick car (not unlike Newey) and I think Kimi still ended up with only two DNFs iirc as oppose to Juan Pablo’s 4 (3 car 1 accident again iirc). It’ll be an interesting year to play out but I’ve always felt that Fernando’s 05 title was often unfairly dismissed.

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ed24f1 said 1 year, 2 months ago:

Yes, I think Fernando will still win, but it will be interesting to see how close it is.

Also, while Kimi almost won at the Nurburgring, I don’t think that’ll count for him in this alternative history as they had the option to pit and take a safe 3rd, but went for the gamble to try and win.

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damonsmedley said 1 year, 2 months ago:

I was hesitant to read this topic as I know the whole everything-affects-everything reality too well, but I did find that very interesting. Great work, @mnmracer!

One question though; Hamilton’s drive through in France… Was that for the incident on lap 1 at the high speed chicane where he had a big tank-slapper, or was it for some other corner cutting? I’m asking because I don’t remember that race very well apart from the crazy start and Raikkonen’s exhaust dangling off the car, and I certainly can’t remember Lewis getting a penalty. If it was for the first lap incident, I don’t think he deserved that at all.

2008 was my favourite season ever, probably. 2010 was also amazing, but 2008 was just something else. The races were amazing, and even when they weren’t (Valencia and China spring to mind), the championship battle kept them tense. It still hurts to look back on though because I remember just how upset I was at the result in Brazil. I think I cried in fact!

@Steph @ed24f1 I’m interested to see if the European Grand Prix will be counted as misfortune for Kimi. On the one hand, it was a failure, but on the other hand, he brought it upon himself by flat-spotting his tyre, and then his team chose not to pit him… So in my opinion, I’d just class that as a normal DNF through error. Indirect, I know, but I feel it’s apt… just!

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AdrianMorse said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@damonsmedley since Kimi’s retirement came on the last lap, that certainly feels like bad luck to me. I don’t remember too much about the 2005 season, but I seem to recall that twice Raikkonen retired from the lead with Alonso picking up the win; that’s a pretty big points swing, and should bag Kimi the title of Alternative 2005 World Champion.

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Slr said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@damonsmedley I think Hamilton got penalised at the 2008 French Grand Prix because he cut a chicane whilst passing Vettel.

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damonsmedley said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@AdrianMorse But what if someone crashed on the last lap like Hamilton in Monza 2009? Is that still bad luck?

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mnmracer said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@Fixy
You’re correct; my bad. I’ve fixed it now.

Regarding Räikkönen in Europe 2005, that was a really tough decission. He was in a way to blame for causing the flat spot, but at the same time, it was bad luck that the flat spot turned into this disaster when it could have gone 50/50.

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AdrianMorse said 1 year, 2 months ago:

@damonsmedley No, crashing out would not count as bad luck in my book – certainly not in the circumstances of Hamilton’s 2009 Monza crash.

In case of Kimi’s tyre, I don’t recall much of the particular rules of that year (normally, a flatspot does not equal an exploding tyre), how many laps he had done on his tyres after flatspotting it, and what information McLaren had regarding the state of that tyre.

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paulgilb said 1 year, 2 months ago:

Another great read!

One slight issue that I’ve noticed is that Raikkonen would still have been a championship contender going into China (the race where he yielded 2nd place to Massa). This would have ended his championship chances under the alternative history.

Interesting that there is no race where Hamilton scores fewer points under the alternative history than he actually did.

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GeorgeDaviesF1 said 1 year, 2 months ago:

For Canada, I reckon Kimi would of hit the wall of Champions. No evidence, just gut feeling

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