Are canopies the right solution for open cockpit racing? (32 posts)

  • Profile picture of Scribe Scribe said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    So I just went onto JAonF1 and he’s thinking about it to: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/10/cockpit-canopies-under-discussion-again-after-wheldon-accident/

    Interestingly the FIA has been doing test on fighter jet canopies and windsheilds and have released this facinaiting video on their findings: http://vimeo.com/26098946

    Particularly it seems to answer questions about deformation.

  • Profile picture of Colossal Squid Colossal Squid said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    Motor racing was, is and always will be dangerous. Human beings weren’t designed to sit in lumps of metal and plastic accelerate to 200+ mph and then crash. The men who love this sport, dedicate and risk their lives doing it are fully aware of the dangers.
    I am all for improved safety and am delighted to be living in a time where motorsport deaths, with tragic exceptions, are few and far between compared to previous decades.
    My problem with closed cockpits is that I fear that some intangible, innate aspect of F1 will be lost should they be implemented.
    If it irrefutably will save lives then that’s not much of a point, but if the improvements are absolutely miniscule and come with other problems then I’d rather not change this aspect of the sport.

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I think there are other, better solutions to the problem. Dan Wheldon has been dead for just forty-eight hours, and already people are calling for cockpit canopies – but a canopy would not have saved him; the force of impact would have obliterated it. I think it’s a knee-jerk reaction, and if we took the time to actually look at what happened and how it came to pass, we can find a solution that will actually work instead of rushing a quick-fix into place.

  • Profile picture of Kelly Kelly said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    The attraction of F1 is that it’s the pinnacle of open wheeled and open cockpit racing. What next? Closed wheel? How ridiculous.

    Indy is just not as safe as F1, easy to see why when you have oval tracks with walls on the outside and so many cars. If one of the front runners ends up in the wall they have no place else to go but into the path of the 30 something cars following.

  • Profile picture of SouthAussie94 SouthAussie94 said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    Personally I think that canopies are not the solution to the problem.

    The issue with Wheldon’s accident was the catch fencing around the track. Even if his car had been fitted with a canopy it is highly likely that this would have been destroyed in the accident.

    We often see the drivers struggling after a race held in hot conditions and I think that canopies would simply compound the issue of heat. How often do we see drivers opening their visors in the pits in order to get some respite from the heat? With closed canopies they wouldn’t be able to do this. It’s possible that if canopies were introduced drivers could faint while driving due to the added heat inside the car.

    I think the ideas of canopies is a knee-jerk reaction. Like PM said, there is no point rushing in and making these decisions without thinking about both the benefits and the pitfalls of any changes.

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    The issue with Wheldon’s accident was the catch fencing around the track.

    They couldn’t exactly remove the catch fencing, could they? If they did, Wheldon would have gone over the edge and landed on the outisde of the circuit perimeter – and there’s no telling where he might have ended up, only that it would have been a long fall.

  • Profile picture of Girts Girts said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I don’t think it’s an easy decision; as has often been said, canopies might save drivers from injuries and even death in a few specific crashes but increase the danger in some other cases. But I don’t think that closed cockpits would harm the basics of F1. If they can save drivers’ lives without creating dangerous side effects then go on.

    I’m with Joe Saward on this, we should hold on as for now we don’t know much about the exact reasons for Dan Wheldon’s deadly injuries and how (and if) they could have been avoided.

  • Profile picture of BasCB BasCB said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I think @prisoner-monkeys is right here, about canopies not being the adequate solution to this accident.

    Canopies do offer a solution to better protect the drivers in open wheel cars but there are some risks and disadvantages (just look at the arguments Keith posted in 2009). The FIA has been studying what effects they have because of the accidents in 2009, and in time it might be that cars will have something like that.

    But if you look at the sheer force that ripped off the whole air box of Wheldons car, can we be sure even a canopy would have offered sufficient protection? What’s more important, is looking at extreme measures the best solution? In the end it only changes the danger as a results of the crash, instead of preventing this from happening in the first place.

    The new Indy car chassis was develloped to limit wheels mingling and cars launching up in the air. And driver protection is a lot better as well. It might well be, that with that car Wheldon would have not been shot in the air and therefor would not have been in danger of getting into the catch fencing in the first place.
    I am sure Dallara will test the new car and simulate the crash to see if it would really prevent this from happening, as it was designed to do.

    But before even getting into the new car, Indy Car will have to look at the wisdom of racing on this type of oval, with a large and increasing banking. And they will have to consider how many cars to put into such a close space of 1.5 miles.

    The track itself might be improved as well. At the scene of the accident it was a catch fencing with barbed wire. If you look at other parts of the track, there is mesh fencing which might not have ripped up the car as much. Not saying it should have been that way, but these are far easier measures than putting a canopy on top of the car.

  • Profile picture of Magnificent Geoffrey Magnificent Geoffrey said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I personally like the fact that single-seater motorsport have open cockpits allowing us to clearly see the drivers at work and their helmet designs in full view. So I would prefer for open cockpits to remain myself.

    However, after this accident I would be willing to accept that if cockpit canopies are investigated by the motorsports industry and found to be an effective and worthwhile means of increasing driver safety, then I think they should be implemented. There are many things that have been introduced into Formula 1 to improve safety that people throughout the sport’s history have complained or been apprehensive about – including myself – from the basic idea of seatbelts to the more modern trend of introducing tarmac run-offs. But after this accident and the ones that befell Surtees and Massa I feel that it is not very appropriate to have those sorts of objections to measures that really do help to decrease the risk to drivers in the event of an accident.

    I don’t think I’ll ever moan about tarmac run-offs again and if the FIA decides to mandate canopies over single-seater cockpits in the interest of safety, I will not oppose that decision now either.

  • Profile picture of Scribe Scribe said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I’ve not said at anypoint that a canopy would definatley have saved Dan Wheldon, although, although I’m not sure another layer of high strength protection wouldn’t have helped dissipate some of the forces that killed him, nor has anyone got any evidence that this isn’t the case.

    A canpoy would however have saved Henry Surtees and Felipe Massa, in a high impact situation, or in a situation where things detatch from cars, the risk of head impacts are not neglible enough in my opinion for the idea of canopys to be ignore’d.

    The sport has moved on to the point were Canopy’s wouldn’t really increase risk in the vast majority situations, especially as, you would have to assume the technology would be installed with the covering to remove it as quickly as possible.

    On the nature of the sport I’m saying not necessarily, imagine if, through Canopys, we could see more of the drivers face and maybe even body? Wouldn’t that be just as good as seeing a head wrapped in a cubic meter of plastic and their hands. Maybe not, but I’m just saying it won’t kill the sport stone dead. It might even improve it, and as the FIA and drivers appear to be testing the theory and practice so thorughly that if we do get Cannopy’s it’ll be because lots of people with the sport and the knowledge to make such judgements will have decided it’s for the best.

  • Profile picture of Icthyes Icthyes said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    Interesting thought Scribe – if we had canopies, but the drivers were as visible as the early 90s. Maybe that would win some people around.

  • Profile picture of Don Mateo Don Mateo said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I’m not against the idea of canopies, and if the FIA think they’re necessary on safety grounds then fair enough, but like many others the biggest issue I can see with them is that they could potentially stop or hinder a driver getting out of the car. There’s also the danger that a canopy could be crushed or disintegrate onto the driver, increasing the risk of injury to the driver.

    However, I’m sure that if the FIA decide that canopies are the way to go, they’ll be rigorously tested to make sure they don’t pose any additional risk.

  • Profile picture of AndrewTanner AndrewTanner said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    I’ve not read many of the comments above but this is a discussion i’m keen to join in on. My initial thoughts are no, I don’t think that closed cockpits are a step forward.

    The level of accidents we have these days is so relatively small in comparison to the past.

    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it…if we’re playing the percentages game that is.

  • Profile picture of W-K W-K said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    Would canopies be afordable for all classes of single seater open wheel sports cars. The only figure I have seen suggests an F15 canopy costs $350,000 and they have to be replaced fairly frequently. I also assume that damage, it the way of scratches and chips, which in some cases can be polished out, would be greater in a single seater than an aircraft. Simply because they are so close to the ground and there has to quite a lot of stones kicked up especially at tracks with gravel traps.

  • Profile picture of matt90 matt90 said 1 year, 7 months ago:

    In F1 there are wheel tethers- the chances of a wheel detaching at high speed is slim in F1. And was Massa’s main injury caused by impact by the spring (the initial force on his helmet, in a concussion-causing way), or by it piercing his helmet and head? Because the chances of a similarly sharp and pointy piece of debris hitting a driver in the right direction is virtually nil.

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