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F1 discussion

Autosport still claiming Massa slowed at Korea

This topic contains 15 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Dan Thorn Dan Thorn 3 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #128318
    Profile photo of Julian
    Julian
    Participant

    http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/3151

    But they explicitly state that they think team orders ‘are a natural part of racing” and that “Far from attacking Ferrari, we fully support its actions in doing what it did in South Korea.”

    They also claim “that the information that Massa was slowed came from inside the Ferrari team.” and that “For the purposes of clarity, at no stage did we accuse Ferrari of team orders in so doing, even if the action could be interpreted as such.”

    My impression is that its a ‘damage control article’ so to speak, in response to all the flack they have been receiving about the original article.

    And of course i would suggest reading the whole article as i’ve just copied and pasted bits of it here, which no doubt changed the context just a little bit lol

    #149970
    Profile photo of RIISE
    RIISE
    Member

    To be honest even if he did it would then be a great ‘Team’ tactic. I jut get the feeling this is all an attack on Alonso. At the end of the day, he is in probably the 2nd maybe 3rd best car on the grid yet he’s 11 points ahead of Webber who is in a car that is phenomenal.

    There will be lots of stories if Alonso wins this years title about how he got it by cheating and what not but at the end of the day I think he should be already a 3 time champion so he’s overdue unlike Hamilton that hasn’t really deserved one yet.

    That strayed a little, oh well.

    #149971
    Profile photo of Hairs
    Hairs
    Participant

    Information came from inside Ferrari?

    1) Massa’s camp are leaking it to devalue Alonso because the Brazilian fans turned against him. “Alonso’s only winning because of our boy Massa, you know.”

    2) Alonso’s camp are leaking it to make Massa look even worse before his home race. “I’m much cleverer than the rest of them and you’ll have to get used to him being no.2″

    #149972
    Profile photo of Eggry
    Eggry
    Participant

    I can’t understand why Autosport(and Mark Hughes) suggests such conspiracy. Mercedes denied, so everything’s over.

    #149973
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    Waaa waaa anti-Ferrari conspiracy.

    There’s nothing to suggest he’s criticising Ferrari, quite the reverse in fact. It was the original article on grandprix.com which suggested that, which quoted Mark Hughes but wasn’t written by him or anyone at Autosport.

    I’d go with Hairs’ theory as to why the leak came out.

    #149974
    Profile photo of Eggry
    Eggry
    Participant

    @Icthyes oh really? if it is, it’s stranger why Hughes quoted such controversial story because I’ve thought they usually don’t like conspiracy.

    #149975
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    But they explicitly state that they think team orders ‘are a natural part of racing” and that “Far from attacking Ferrari, we fully support its actions in doing what it did in South Korea.”

    If this is true, then it shouldn’t be supported at all. I might not agree with what Ferrari did in Germany, but I can understand why they did it, and they only manipulated their own race. But as soon as they start impinging on someone ele’s race – like this article claims – they should be brought into account. Deliberately blocking is not cool. We have it in the V8 Supercars a few years ago when the Holdens kept holding Craig Lowndes up so that Rick Kelly could overtake him and there was a lot of controversy over it. If Ferrari are ruining someone else’s race for the sake of their own, they should be disqualified.

    And I’m not saying that because I on’t like Ferrari. I’d be singing exactly the same tune if Red Bull or McLaren or Mercedes or anyone else did it.

    #149976
    Profile photo of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    Slowing down those behind you is different from blocking. It’s teamplay. As recently as 2005, both Renault and McLaren did it in their respective title campaigns, and barely anyone made a fuss about it.

    #149977
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    I’m not sure what you mean Eggry.

    The original grandprix.com article used Hughes’ report to say that Ferrari had used Massa to slow down Schumacher to prevent Alonso from losing not just one but more places because of his pit stop.

    What Hughes is saying is that Massa was slowed down because Alonso had a bad pit-stop and that he was told this by someone inside Ferrari. He doesn’t care about igniting a team order row because to him they’re irrelevant, as he supports team orders.

    Hughes never quoted the grandprix.com article. They quoted him. So he couldn’t have done it create a conspiracy, because he couldn’t have done it for any reason as he didn’t do it at all.

    The one thing that bothers me is that he hasn’t specifically denied that he said Ferrari used Massa to slow Schumacher down. I don’t buy Autosport so I don’t know if he said that. But he doesn’t say they did in this rebuttal article, so I guess not?

    #149978
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    To be honest I dislike the idea of slowing opther cars down more than switching cars. Do what you want within your own team but this is different. If it’s even true but seeing as even Merc don’t buy it then I’m not sure I do either.

    #149979
    Profile photo of ed24f1
    ed24f1
    Participant

    It also happened in Hungary, when Massa slowed in the pit entry to avoid queuing behind Alonso at the SC.

    Even if it wasn’t a team order, slowing in the pit entry was explicitly made illegal after Spa 2005 when McLaren did it.

    Also, I would need to look at the footage again, but you could probably argue that doing that partly led to all the chaos in pitlane with Kubica/Sutil and Rosberg.

    #149980
    Profile photo of Eggry
    Eggry
    Participant

    @Icthyes sorry for my misreading.

    #149981
    Profile photo of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    As recently as 2005, both Renault and McLaren did it in their respective title campaigns, and barely anyone made a fuss about it.

    Didn’t Fisichella got a penalty for it once?

    #149982
    Profile photo of Felipe Bomeny
    Felipe Bomeny
    Participant

    Norberto Fontana once claimed that Ferrari told the Saubers to hold up their rivals, if the opportunity arose in exchange for Ferrari engines. Whether it’s true or not, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.

    #149983
    Profile photo of Hare
    Hare
    Participant

    FWAAC!!!… Ferrari Win At All Costs…

    MASSA – Must Assist Superior Stablemate Always.

    Alonso Motto – Help the team: Help me!

    To be fair though, Alonso has almost always been the better driver in his teams, except for some chap called Hamilton.

    ( slightly off topic, sorry :D )

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