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BBC’s Top 20 F1 drivers ever (list) (365 posts)

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Kingshark said 9 months ago:

@matt90
Schumacher made Formula One huge in Germany. Without him we probably wouldn’t even have had Vettel. He also saved Ferrari from a 21 year slump, something G Villeneuve, Mansell or Prost couldn’t do.
You still haven’t really given me a reason to why Schumacher doesn’t belong in the same league as the other 6. If anything, Moss certainly shouldn’t be up there.

Even Schumacher has rated Senna as #1. Maybe you should ask him why!

What did you expect him to say? I am #1? ;-)

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matt90 said 9 months ago:

@kingshark
I was never arguing why Schumacher doesn’t belong in the top 6. Of course he does. But, as I said before, Schumacher should’t be given that much credit for ‘saving’ Ferrari, and also shouldn’t get bonus points just because he happens to be German. If he comes first, then fair enough, he is the most successful driver ever after all, and having the ability to create a team around him at Ferrari counts in his favour, but not because of it specifically being Ferrari, or because he used his super-kind-talented-and-awesome-nice-goodness-skills to save them, but because he recognised the potential that he could benefit from if he brought his own people in, and that he managed to pull it off.

What gave you the impression that I don’t think Schumacher is as good as the others in the top 6?

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Nicholas Sunderland said 9 months ago:

@kingshark I’m going to stay out of this argument, but I’d just like to point out that when you say “something that Villeneuve, Mansell and Prost couldn’t do”, you’re not exactly being fait to those drivers. Gilles’ career lasted three years into the slump; in two of those years, he had some of the worst machinery in Ferrari history. In the third year, we all know what happened. In Mansell and Prost’s case, Ferrari wasn’t a particularily competitive (relative to their usual performance) team, apart from 1990, where Prost brought the championship down to the wire, and might have won if it weren’t for Senna’s move in Suzuka.

So I wouldn’t say that HE did something that the others couldn’t do, but the circumstances worked much more in his favour. None of those drivers had the benefit of the “perfect team” (Byrne, Brawn, Todt…).

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safeeuropeanhome said 8 months, 2 weeks ago:

Sir Stirling at number 6. No surprises now surely, although given how poorly constructed this list has been from start to finish nothing is impossible. Clark, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio top 5- for what its worth that’s the order I would put them in.

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Kingshark said 8 months, 2 weeks ago:

Formula 1′s greatest drivers. Number 6: Sir Stirling Moss

As previously stated, no surprise there. There’s also very little or no surprise in the unquestionable top 5.

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Estesark said 8 months, 2 weeks ago:

@magon4, how can you say that before you’ve seen the top five? For all we know, Senna might be missing from the list altogether, with Yuji Ide at #1!

;)

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James_mc said 8 months, 2 weeks ago:

Pretty underwhelmed with the BBC list, perhaps it was the way it was voted on as a summation of everyone’s top 10s.

It just generally strikes me as half-baked…

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Kingshark said 8 months, 2 weeks ago:

I would rate them like this:

5.) Fangio
4.) Senna
3.) Prost
2.) Clark
1.) Schumacher

Although knowing the BBC they’ll probably appear like this:

5.) Prost
4.) Fangio
3.) Schumacher
2.) Clark
1.) Senna

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Aditya Banerjee said 8 months, 2 weeks ago:

Moss,Hamilton and Vettel have certainly been ranked too high

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Kingshark said 8 months, 1 week ago:

Number 5: Alain Prost

Discuss…

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Journeyer said 8 months, 1 week ago:

No surprises with Prost at #5. Totally agree with it, actually. I’d rank them:

5. Prost
4. Clark
3. Senna
2. Schumacher
1. Fangio

But I think the BBC will rank them as you mentioned, Kingshark.

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Kingshark said 8 months, 1 week ago:

In my opinion Prost is underrated and was a better driver than Senna, he also deserves to be higher than 5th. But then you couldn’t have expected more from them when you read stuff like this.

Senna went to McLaren with the aim of crushing Prost and while he (Ayrton) was unquestionably the better driver in their two years at McLaren, so too there were times when Prost beat him fair and square.

That is one of the most heavily biased statements I have ever read about the rivalry between Prost and Senna at Mclaren, and for me, it takes away a lot of the credibility of this list. Prost is so overlooked. He beat Senna fair and square during their 2 seasons together. How on Earth was Senna the better driver? Such crap. I can’t believe Murray would go this low, or perhaps his memory isn’t the sharpest tool. Benson I never really cared about though.

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safeeuropeanhome said 8 months, 1 week ago:

@kingshark How is Prost overlooked? He has been ranked in the top 5 here, and is in the top 5 on most people lists I’ve ever come across. You may not agree that he is also normally put below Senna but to have such an opinion is not outrageous as you seem to suggest. Senna was the faster driver, more wins and more poles in their two seasons together and could do things pushing a car to the limit that probably only Jim Clark, Fangio and Michael Schumacher on some of his more brilliant days have ever come close to matching.

You will throw back that Prost scored more points, but Senna played the rules as they were at the time and you cannot fault him for that. And then in 89 he had some horrendous reliability trouble which cost him badly.
Perhaps it would have been fairer to say Senna was unquestionably the faster driver, I don’t think that is an unfair statement. That is a big factor for a lot of people including me. Its not like they’ve put him in the lower reaches of the top 20 like they did with Piquet and Brabham which would be ridiculous, Prost is an all time great driver and one of the very few drivers that could match Senna over a season.

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Kingshark said 8 months, 1 week ago:

This is how many points each scored during 1988-89:

1.) Prost – 186
2.) Senna – 154

I rest my case, really.

You also can’t compare their speed, as Senna was the one who got better engines from Honda.

Even in 1990, when Prost was driving an inferior Ferrari, it took a suicidal and murderous move from Senna at Suzuka in order to seal the championship that season.

Prost was more consistent and smarter as a driver than Senna was. Yet for whatever reason it may be, whenever these lists are done Ayrton “perfect” Senna is always #1 while Prost is lucky to make the top 5.

Senna’s death made his reputation sainted and immortal.

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matt90 said 8 months, 1 week ago:

Do you not think that some of the arguments you have made for Prost being better could have something to do with him having been had an twice as long in the sport at the time their partnership started in 1988?

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