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F1 discussion

BBC’s Top 20 F1 drivers ever (list)

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This topic contains 364 replies, has 70 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Kingshark Kingshark 2 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 365 total)
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  • #198690
    Profile photo of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    If Ayrton Senna isn’t at the top I’ll be gobsmacked. As for the 4 from 2012…Schumacher, Alonso, maybe Hamilton & Vettel.
    I do agree though that Brabham & Hill should maybe be higher, but I’ll wait to see how the rest of the list reads before deciding for sure.

    #198691
    Profile photo of Estesark
    Estesark
    Participant

    I’m definitely expecting to see a bias (even if it is unintentional) towards drivers from recent times. Perhaps some of the crew have named only drivers they have seen since they started following the sport, which would be fair enough in a way, except that the list is claiming to profile the 20 greatest ever drivers. I don’t see how more than three of the current field deserve to be in the top twenty.

    #198692
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I join the shock at Brabham and Hill being so far down the list.

    Surely Vettel can’t be on the list at all then, as no sane person could rank him above the likes of the aforementioned?

    #198693
    Profile photo of ed24f1
    ed24f1
    Participant

    Chris, fair point about Vettel, but you can say the same about Button, Raikkonen and Hamilton as well and two of those four are going to be on the list…

    #198694
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Yep, I could. Don’t understand the logic behind the BBC list at all!

    #198695
    Profile photo of cjpdk
    cjpdk
    Participant

    There’ll definitely be an bias towards British drivers. I’m betting on Clark and Moss being extremely high, at the expense of Schumacher and Fangio.

    #198696
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    If Moss is there, and is high up, he still won’t be above Clark, Senna, Schumacher or Fangio.

    #198697
    Profile photo of Pamphlet
    Pamphlet
    Participant

    If last time’s anything to go by Schumacher should be #1. Even with their bias towards British drivers (and Senna).

    As for the 4 current F1 drivers that are on the list I think it’s Schuey, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton. Rather shocked to see Brabham and Hill so far down, just like everyone else, but I don’t think that should mean that Vettel and Hamilton don’t deserve their spots in the top 20. But who are the 2 in #22 and #23? Kimi and Jenson? Seriously, I can’t think of many others that would fit…

    EDIT: Looking at the intro I’d say it’s fairly clear that Vettel’s on the list.

    One thing that people seem to forget is that the standard in F1 drivers is at its highest today. Alonso himself seems to agree – today’s grid is, overall, probably the strongest grid F1 has ever seen. If Seb or ‘nando were to compete in F1 in, say, the ’70s, chances are they’d have even more titles than they do now.

    The fact that they have 2 titles each says a lot about them. And we can’t forget about Hammy, Kimi or Jenson! Hell, Massa would deserve some recognition as well.

    #198698
    Profile photo of katederby
    katederby
    Participant

    Disappointed to see Brabham and Hill so far down the list… time really does seem to diminish the lustre of glory as both are more than just great winners. As for the current 4 drivers included, with the exception of Schumacher who’s place is assured and in my opinion Alonso, it’s hard to judge Vettel and Hamilton as both could go on to win more titles. Or could never win another title, only time will tell, although the way the stars have aligned I could see Vettel winning another 5.

    #198699
    Profile photo of George
    George
    Participant

    @pamphlet

    As for the 4 current F1 drivers that are on the list I think it’s Schuey, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton. Rather shocked to see Brabham and Hill so far down, just like everyone else, but I don’t think that should mean that Vettel and Hamilton don’t deserve their spots in the top 20. But who are the 2 in #22 and #23? Kimi and Jenson? Seriously, I can’t think of many others that would fit…

    I think you’re probably right there, although Kimi could replace Hamilton, given his current form.

    Schumi and Senna will be top 2, they’re pretty much set in stone. I’d guess Fangio 3, Clark 4, Prost 5. Wouldn’t care to guess the rest :P

    #198700
    Profile photo of safeeuropeanhome
    safeeuropeanhome
    Participant

    Clark should be number 1. But as always with these things I would be very surprised if it is not Senna or Schumacher at the top.

    #198701
    Profile photo of S.J.M
    S.J.M
    Participant

    @cjpdk If Clark & Moss are on this list (as they both should be, and bloody high at that!) it wont be at the expense of Fangio or Schumacher.

    The saying ive heard before is that the worlds greatest driver probably comes from some Siberian farm, but wont ever know of his talent due to his/her circumstances. I’d argue that he was a Scottish farmer who did. I hope Clark is #1, the guy could drive any car and wring every bit of performance from it. His racing statistics are just amazing.

    #198702
    Profile photo of cjpdk
    cjpdk
    Participant

    @S.J.M.

    “His racing statistics are just amazing”

    Are you sure. I suppose he did brilliantly, considering he was really a part-time driver. But:

    Clark:
    Championships: 2
    Race wins: 25
    % of wins: 34.73%
    Pole positions: 33

    Fangio:
    Championships: 5
    Race wins: 24
    % of wins: 47.06%
    Pole positions: 29

    Schumacher:
    Championships: 7
    Race wins: 91
    % of wins: 31.38%
    Pole positions: 68

    Personal feelings and biases obviously play a part in a list such as this – but it would be hard to argue that Clark has the most impressive racing record of all time.

    #198703
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    I think if you looked at his percentage of wins from races he finished it would be better. He had particularly poor reliability. For instance one year his oil leak on the last lap at the last GP cost him the title as he only came 5th in the race, and that’s even if you ignore the many other retirements that year that he had. A brief look at the years he came 2nd or 3rd suggests that had he not had such fragile cars he could have been a 5 time champion (although of course the pay-off would likely have been that the car was slower, and applying the same conditions to Fangio may have made him a 6, or possibly even 7 times champion).
    Fangio retired 19.6% of the races he started. Clark retired 31.9%.
    Clark won 51% of the races he finished (obviously this stat will ignore the fact that some retirements were his fault). Fangio won 53.7%, ignoring the shared drives as Clark was never allowed to try and win races like this. This shows them much closer. It shows that if you look at stats, you need to look at a range of them rather than the headline numbers.

    #198704
    Profile photo of S.J.M
    S.J.M
    Participant

    @matt90 Thank you, you’ve replied in a way thats much better worded then I could have.

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