Best Driver V Best Car
22nd March 2011, 22:56 at 10:56 pm #129066
Sorry if this has been asked before!
Who do you think is the best driver and the best car of the 80′s, 90′s and 00′s?23rd March 2011, 15:42 at 3:42 pm #164081
For me the best driver of the decades referred to was Senna, and the best car was the Mac of 88 than won every race that season but one…and the nice thing was that there was genuine racing going on between Senna and Prost, with a viscious rivalry both on the track and off the track through the media…so pretty much every race-weekend that year you knew that a Mac was likely going to win, you just didn’t know which one…which is why I despised the MS/Ferrari concept and don’t rate it for best driver/car of the decades in question.23rd March 2011, 16:02 at 4:02 pm #164082
80′s – Mclaren MP4/4
90′s – Williams FW14
00′s – Ferrari F2004
80′s – Senna/Prost
90′s – Schumacher
00′s – Schumacher23rd March 2011, 16:55 at 4:55 pm #164083
agree with David A23rd March 2011, 17:11 at 5:11 pm #164084
+2 Also agree with David A23rd March 2011, 18:53 at 6:53 pm #164085
I’d agree with David A, except (and I must have a fever or something) I think the better candidate for the 2000s would actually be Alonso. He impressed at Minardi, got his first win in a Renault that was not yet the class of the field, became the youngest single and double world champion, came within a whisker of 3 and took that 2008 Renault to places it never should have.
Schumacher will always be the greater in my mind, but he had things mostly handed to him on a plate in the 2000s (apart from 2000 and 2003, and didn’t succeed in 2006). Just like Schumacher himself in relation to Senna, Alonso actually did the things we assume Schumacher would have done in his position.
P.S: I say Prost for the 80s23rd March 2011, 20:06 at 8:06 pm #164086
And the 10s – RBR’s RB-6 ;)23rd March 2011, 21:01 at 9:01 pm #164087
Agree wholeheartedly with everything Icthyes said.23rd March 2011, 21:18 at 9:18 pm #164088
For me, the F2002 was even better than the F2004. Ferrari were simply unstoppable in 2002, aside from Malaysia (where iirc they were still using the F2001), Monaco (which has always been a track which can throw up a strange result) and France (where Schumacher got a drive through penalty) they never even looked like failing to win. The only thing which counted against it was that it was often outqualified by Montoya’s Williams, but that never amounted to much come race day.
In 2004, on the other hand, Ferrari were rarely as dominant, there were few races- Malaysia, France, Canada, Britain, Germany etc which they could quite easily have lost, as well as the three races they didn’t win. And they had no real opposition all season, it was a bit of a transition year, with the decline of Williams and emergence of Renault. Don’t get me wrong, it was a brilliant car- I just think the F2002 was even better!23rd March 2011, 21:44 at 9:44 pm #164089
60′s Jim Clark – Lotus 25
70′s Jackie Stewart – Not sure what car i would pick.23rd March 2011, 22:16 at 10:16 pm #164090
@ Ned Flanders – Your right, the F2002 has a slightly better wins ratio then the F2004;
F2002 – 17 races – 15 wins ( MS 11 wins, 0 DNF – RB 4 wins, 5 DNF )
F2004 – 18 races – 15 wins ( MS 13 wins, 1 DNF – RB 2 wins, 1 DNF )
F2002 won 88.2% of the races it entered.
F2004 won 83.2% of the races it entered.
But the F2004 is widely regarded as the fastest F1 car of all time. It’s certainly the fastest Ferrari F1 car, which can be seen by looking at the ultimate lap times recorded for various cars around Fiorano during 1000s of km done during testing.
Ferrari F2004 0’55.999 Michael Schumacher 2004
Ferrari F2003-GA 0’56.33 Michael Schumacher 2003
Ferrari 248 F1 0’57.099 Felipe Massa 2006
Ferrari F2005 0’57.146 Michael Schumacher 2005
Ferrari F2002 0’57.476 Michael Schumacher 2002
Ferrari F2007 0’58.366 Felipe Massa 2007
Ferrari F310B 0’59.00 Michael Schumacher 1997
Ferrari F2008 0’59.111 Mirko Bortolotti 2008
Ferrari F399 1’00.226 Luca Badoer 1999
Ferrari 412T 1’00.31 Jean Alesi 1994
You can also look at the fastest laps for the majority of circuits that were mostly unchanged through-out the period, and many are the still the same too this day, and you will see in most cases cars from 2004 hold the records (most times still stand to this day)
Magny-Cours – 1:15.377 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004
Nürburgring GP – 1:29.468 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004
Monza – 1:21.046 – Rubens Barrichello, Ferrari F2004
Melbourne – 1:24.125 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004
Interlagos – 1:11.473 – Juan Pablo Montoya, Williams BMW, 2004
Sepang – 1:34.223 – Pablo Montoya, Williams-BMW FW26, 2004
Bahrain – 1:30.252 – Michael Schumacher Ferrari – F2004 ( GP Circuit)
Montreal – 1:13.622 – Rubens Barrichello, Ferrari F2004
Silverstone – 1:18.739 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari, F2004. (Bridge Circuit)
Hockenheimring- 1:13.780 – Kimi Räikkönen, McLaren, 2004
Hungaroring – 1:19.071 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004,
Shanghai – 1:32.238 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004
San Marino – 1:20.411 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari, F2004,
Monaco – 1:14.439 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004
Catalunya – 1:17.450 – Michael Schumacher, Ferrari F2004 (Pre Chicane)
(Notable tracks absent from this list are Spa and Suzuka, as they were wet weekends during the 2004 season.)
There is little too separate the F2002 and F2004 in terms of wins statistics, but its clear the F2004 was the faster of the two, probably off all time. So on that that basis, I put F2004 slightly above the F2002.23rd March 2011, 22:24 at 10:24 pm #164091
Weren’t the 2005 cars as fast as the 2004 cars, but the rules about the tyres stopped them from breaking most lap records?
By the way Chick0, the 2004 Belgian Grand Prix was a dry race, Kimi Raikkonen set the fastest lap with a 1:45.108. I think you might have it confused with the 2005 race which was wet. Suzuka was also dry in 2004, but the lap record was broken by Kimi Raikkonen the following year.23rd March 2011, 23:35 at 11:35 pm #164092
@ slr – The 2005 cars where certainly slowed by the single set per race tire rules, but the FIA also changed the Aero rules, which attempted to reduce downforce by roughly one-quarter (the teams clawed back most of it by the end of the season).
Engines also had to last two race weekends, double that of the 2004 regulations, which no doubt reduced the power available to the drivers during the races.
Your right, my apologies, Spa and Suzuka where both run on dry tyres.. I was at Spa that weekend and it was spitting on and off around the circuit during the race, but never enough too change to wets.
Suzuka was the weekend of Typhoon Ma-on, and both the qualifying and race were run on the Sunday. I wrongly remembered the track being partly wet during the race, but it was during qualifying where that was the case.24th March 2011, 1:02 at 1:02 am #164093
I know that cars were faster in 2004 than they were in 2002, but I don’t think that proves much. I mean, the 1954/55 Mercedes’ were brilliant cars I’m sure everyone would agree, but put them on a track now beside modern F1 cars and they’d look pitifully slow. On the other hand, the 2004 Minardi was a right dog, but it’d probably be a front runner if it were on the grid in 2011!24th March 2011, 6:57 at 6:57 am #164094
If I were going with the outright best it would be:
80′s – McLaren MP4/4
90′s – Williams FW18
00′s – Ferrari F2004
80′s – Prost
90′s – Senna
00′s – Schumacher
But, to keep things interesting, I’ll say these:
80′s – Lotus 99T. Honda Turbo power, active suspension, Senna, just awesome.
90′s – McLaren MP4/13. Newey rule change genius in silver wrapping paper.
00′s – Brawn BGP001. A bolt from the blue that was mega right out the box despite never being designed for the Mercedes engine.
80′s – Piquet
90′s – Hakkinen
00′s – Alonso
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.