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F1

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F1 discussion

Button passed Hamilton on points

This topic contains 31 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Aled Davies Aled Davies 1 year, 12 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 32 total)
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  • #215756
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    Hamilton should have destroyed Button in terms of championship position and points, and been in title contention this year. I can’t decide if he, Vettel, or Alonso have been the best this season, but Hamilton is at least up for consideration. In contrast, Button has had some highs, but has generally been consistently poorer than Hamilton throughout the year- yet there are only 2 points in it this year. Hamilton should probably have anything between 6 to 8 wins this year, and an 8th pole. This was the year when Hamilton did everything possible to right the wrongs of last year and show himself to be be among the class of the field, and the points in no way reflect this.

    #215757
    Profile photo of JamieFranklinF1
    JamieFranklinF1
    Participant

    I think this has shown people that Jenson does belong in the class of the field with the rest of the top drivers. I’m not doubting Hamilton’s speed, and I think it’s pretty obvious that when things are even, Hamilton is the better qualifier, hands down, but I hope now that people will realise that Button is a great driver and could well be fighting for the title next year, if McLaren can give him the machinery.

    As I’ve said many times before, I really don’t doubt Hamilton’s talent, nor the fact that he was the better driver this year on more accounts, but I really do hope that other people (especially Hamilton fans) start seeing him as a great driver and not just a lucky, average driver.

    #215758
    Profile photo of Ed Marques
    Ed Marques
    Participant

    Button is a great driver (espcially in conditions like today’s race, he is the “King of Chaos”), but Hamilton is better. Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are the 3 greatest drivers of todays F1. Raikonnen and Button are behind, but not by much. For me that’s pretty clear.
    As for the points this year, if wasn’t for Mclaren mistakes, Hamilton would probably would be celebrating his second world title today. The numbers don’t tell the true history.
    Incredible season, one of the best of all.

    #215759
    Profile photo of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    2011 is an interesting year – let’s break it down. Button scored 270 points and Hamilton 227 points. The difference is 43 points.

    We have to eliminate Canada where Button scored 25 points and Hamilton 0 but Button took out Hamilton as he was passing him. The difference is now 18 points.

    McLaren made a mistake and didn’t send Lewis out in time for qualifying at one race. There were issues with the tires at Silverstone. Then there was 1 race where he should have won and lost many points on strategy and he was wondering why he didn’t win in the interview as did I since he was never passed…

    Then there was Massa who opens the door and then closes it like a broken record… Finally there were a half dozen drive through penalties.

    Conclusion
    Yes, Button scored 18 more points but that’s like saying that Button scores the same when Hamilton is off by 15 seconds per race or changes the car’s nose or has a flat is disqualified or runs from 10th…

    The amazing thing in 2011 is that Hamilton SCORED 227 points with all the issues he had. Massa scored half the points with half the issues and an equally good car…

    #215760
    Profile photo of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @freelittlebirds

    Massa scored half the points with half the issues and an equally good car…

    Overall, Ferrari was not in the same league as Mclaren in 2011. Sure, there were certain races where Ferrari were equally good or even better, but overall Mclaren had the better machinery IMO.

    Honestly, I don’t believe that Ferrari were quicker than Mclaren at any point other than Britain. There were some races where the teams were close; such as Turkey, Monaco, Canada, Germany, Hungary, Japan, India, Abu Dhabi and Brazil. However, for the rest of the season, and the remaining 9 races Mclaren were unquestionably the better package.

    #215761
    Profile photo of Joey-Poey
    Joey-Poey
    Participant

    Hamilton is the faster driver. Button is the more consistent driver. Racing is not simply about speed over a single lap or a single dominant race. Whether you consider Hamilton the “better” driver is a matter of opinion and can be debated. To say things like only “real fans” know that Hamilton is better is a bit myopic and a misuse of words.

    #215762
    Profile photo of Bob
    Bob
    Participant

    Button is the more consistent driver.

    Granted, he has shown the ability to continually bring the car home in one piece and score decent points at most rounds, but only when the car is right. Don’t get me wrong, Button is my favourite driver, but he does have a very narrow window of performance.

    If the car or setup is not to his liking, Button starts to struggle, and makes his now infamous complaints about lack of grip and such. See his mid-season slump this year, when he was unable to make the car (possibly its tyres as well) work effectively for him. Whereas Hamilton’s strength has always been the ability to soldier on and extract the most out of whatever car he is given. Give Button a car perfectly attuned to his driving style, however, and he becomes the class of the field.

    #215763
    Profile photo of Soph Morgan
    Soph Morgan
    Member

    Hello first post here :)
    Well done to Jenson for scoring more points than Lewis in their three years together. It doesn’t really tell the full story though and overall I think Lewis has performed better over the 3 years. Its closer than I thought it would be I have to say. Well done to both drivers for much entertainment. :)

    #215764
    Profile photo of Aled Davies
    Aled Davies
    Participant

    “Button is the more consistent driver.”

    Not this season though? Hamilton has been up there all year out performing Button pretty comprehensively!

    Hamilton had 6 retirements this season and 5 of them were through no fault of his own! The only 1 you can say perhaps he could have avoided was the 1 in Valencia with Maldonado (although personally I blame Pastor for that 1)

    Button in contrast had much fewer retirements and had some races where he was just miles off the pace (Canada being the obvious 1)

    When hamilton had his retirements they tended to lose him big points:

    3rd or 4th place Valencia
    1st or 2nd Singapore
    1st Abu Dhabi
    1st or 2nd Brazil

    The last 3 years my recpect for Jenson has grown enormously – he’s in the top 5 or 6 F1 Drivers and he’s very good on his day. But there were very few occasions this season he out raced lewis.

    I think this was Hamiltons best season yet, bl;istering speed comined with a maturity and a longer term view than previously. He had more poles than anyone and should have had more wins than anyone else this season.

    Button had 3 wins and a good drive in america but thatw as it in my opinion

    #215765
    Profile photo of Gwannel Sandiego
    Gwannel Sandiego
    Participant

    I’m a fan of both drivers, but Button #1 just because I’ve been following him longer. That said, I do think Hamilton is the better driver overall, but I remember how many people said the McLaren move would be the undoing of Button and show how poor he was & undeserving of his WDC etc., so I’m just pleased that this is proven not to be true. Although there are still plenty of people who will point to Hamilton’s bad luck without considering that obviously Button has also had retirements that weren’t his fault in the previous 3 years. Who had more, I don’t really know or care, what matters for me is we haven’t seen those huge Alonso-Massa/Vettel-Webber-esque gaps between the two of them.

    #215766
    Profile photo of Asanator
    Asanator
    Participant

    blah blah blah, woulda shoulda coulda!

    The numbers are the numbers and the results are the results. All this could have won this, should’ve been in the title race is all we ever hear from Hamilton fans! It is getting very boring. Afterall if it weren’t for other teams problems and Renaults cheating he wouldn’t even BE a World Champion!

    #215767
    Profile photo of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    The ‘Hamilton retired but could have won’ talk is pretty stale now, yes. If you’d go back over the past 3 years, I’m sure Mclaren has lost hundreds of points due to mechanical failures, botched pitstops, Lewis’ personal life, Jenson not being able to find a proper set up. But this is all Formula 1, Button was as many as 40 something points behind during one point in the season, but he recovered.

    #215768
    Profile photo of Aled Davies
    Aled Davies
    Participant

    “But this is all Formula 1, Button was as many as 40 something points behind during one point in the season, but he recovered.”

    True…but in any of them races other than perhaps yesterday Button was never going to beat Hamilton. Abu Dhabi and singapore Lewis was out in front and would have won. That’s the point…. Button recovered maionly due to hamilton’s misfortunes. You can’t take anything away from Button the last 3 years he has surprised many (including me) by how good hes been. But you cant deny the fact Hamilton has out performed him…

    I think Hamilton though will have learned a thing or 2 from JB about getting a team around you!

    It is getting stale saying that Hamilton lost lots of points due to mechanical problems yes (and im 1 of the 1s often championing that fact when this is brought up) But he has! And how many of the races where Hamilton did drop out for mechanical reasons/taken out of by another driver was he ahead of Button…all of them I believe?

    #215769
    Profile photo of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    @Nick,

    Luck is very important in life as it is in F1 – Button’s been a lucky guy over the past 3 years. Actually over his entire career if you consider the move to Brawn, he’s hit the lottery. Button is a driver who no doubt maximized his career in F1 and many consider him a great driver with occasional upshifts into brilliance.

    No one can say that Lewis is lucky – short of dying, he’s minimized his career in F1. Pretty much everyone considers Lewis a brilliant driver with occasional downshifts into greatness.

    You have one guy who managed to maximize his career at F1 and another guy who so far has minimized his career – not necessarily through his own mistakes.

    Yes Button outscored Lewis by 15 points. But 50 points came from Canada 2011 when Button collided with Hamilton and came out in 1 piece whereas Hamilton’s race ended and also from Hulkenberg’s attempt to pass 3 cars yesterday…

    You cannot fight destiny – I’m not sure who/what decides that 1 guy will win points from every mistake he makes while another driver will lose 10-15 points per mistake whether it’s his or the team’s. Luck goes a long way.

    They say Fangio was a great driver (I wouldn’t know) but his best skill was picking the right team at the right time – had he picked the wrong team, he may have been an unknown F1 driver or a dead one for that matter. So in F1, the following 3 words are the most important – luck, luck, luck!

    #215770
    Profile photo of sebsronnie
    sebsronnie
    Participant

    @asanator and @npf1 “Numbers are the numbers” and “Pretty stale now” – then why even bother raising and commenting on this topic (Button outscoring Hamilton over three years) if we’re not supposed to put the result in perspective? Are you seriously suggesting we’re not supposed to remember any/all of LH’s misfortunes this year when discussing his performance compared to his teammate’s?

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