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F1 discussion

Converting points to a single system – more F1 stats!

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Karl Fuss Karl Fuss 1 year, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #130167
    Avatar of Guilherme
    Guilherme
    Member

    So, I’ve been working on something for the past two weeks. I always liked to compare drivers by how many points they scored, but it was always something hard to do and became almost completely meaningless with the points system introduced in 2010, so I thought it would be agood idea to convert all points to a single point-scoring system. This spreadsheet is the result of it:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvO4ewlFHGzVdC14SVdhaGtKVjh4UlRnUHE2cF9yUWc&hl=en_US

    As you can see, I plotted how many times each driver finished in each position throughout their careers, and also how many times they retired/not-classified and how many times they were disqualified from a race. After doing that, it is easy to convert the finishes into a single points system, or, more accurately, three different points systems. I decided to use the pre-2003 system (10-6-4-3-2-1), pre-2010 system (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1) and the current one. Also calculated are points as a percentage of total available and retirement rates.

    But then I figured I could calculate a few other thins besides points and retirements. In the other spreadsheets on that same file, you can find ranks on things like wins and podiums, points, points finishes, races started, retirements and races started, everything with total numbers and percentage.

    I have stats on all drivers who raced at least one race between 1989 and 2011. Naturally, drivers who never started a race, such as Gary Brabham, Giovanna Amati and Perry McCarthy are not present. Current drivers are highligthed in bold.

    Hopefully I’ll have all drivers included before the year is out, and then I’ll work on a teams chart. I think I’ll not put drivers who only raced in the Indianapolis 500, as for all intents and purposes, they weren’t F1 drivers. If you think I should, let me know. Also let me know what do you think of this data, how it is displayed and so on :)

    #179629
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Holy Jebus, great work! I would have lost enthusiasm for it soon after starting, and even then, I wouldn’t have worked out how many points they would have had overall. Keep up the good stuff mate :D

    #179630
    Avatar of 91jb12
    91jb12
    Participant

    I’m working on the ultimate F1 results database from 1950-present.

    I use wikipedia as my main source and then tot up how many 1sts,2nds…24ths a driver has, FLs, poles, entries, starts, retirements, DNQs, DNPQs DSQs and then work out how many points they would have in todays system (FL point doesn’t count and half point races count as full points in my chart)

    I’m on about 700 of 800 drivers, now around the early 90s.

    But Fangio is well out ahead 16 points per entry with Schumacher at 13 having scored something like 3500 career points.

    Hamilton is at about 12pts per entry with Vettel on the verge of surpassing Senna at around 11.5

    #179631
    Avatar of Guilherme
    Guilherme
    Member

    Looks like we’re doing the same thing then 91jb12, but your work is nearly done while I’m only 25% through it. The only difference is that I didn’t care about DNQs and DNPQs. I have all results from Michael and in my chart is says he has 3817 in today’s points system.

    But what really strikes me is the ratio, that is, how many points they have scored from the total available to them. Schumacher and Prost are real monsters, with more than 50% or slightly less than that in the 2003 system. And so far I’ve been impressed with the rate at which Hamilton finishes on the points – in any of the three systems he has more than 70%!

    #179632
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    One thing you guys will want to look at – points average WITH and WITHOUT retirements. With reliability better than ever before, that favors the drivers of today.

    Interesting that Hamilton’s point-scoring rate is over 70%. Do you have his podium-finishing rate? Schumacher is something like over 60% (I remember it was at 67% or something similarly crazy-high at the end of 2006).

    #179633
    Avatar of 91jb12
    91jb12
    Participant

    Done it today!

    Schumacher 3817 points/283 entries (282 starts)

    Prost 2483/202(199)

    Barrichello 1897/321(317)

    482 out of 800 drivers have scored a point (top 10 result) in the world championship

    Bernd Schneider has the most ENTRIES without a top 10 (34 entries but only 9 starts). Ant Davidso has the most starts (24) without a top 10

    Technically D. Serafini has the best points per entry at 18, although he only made 1 entry.

    Fangio is 3rd on the list but given a minimum of 3 races, he tops it with 857 off 52 entries (51 starts) at 16.48.

    Hamilton, Vettel and Senna are all next to eachother and if Vettel wins in Japan he’ll pass Senna.The loewst is 0.03 by David Brabham (1pt in 30 entries of which 24 were starts)

    #179634
    Avatar of 91jb12
    91jb12
    Participant

    I must add, my list may have some errors even though i double checked each driver

    Also i may have inconsistancies as it took so long to do, eg a Did Not Arrive or a Did Not Practise may be given as an entry for some and not for others

    Inconsistancies may also lie in the early years where you had shared drives

    And the 1962 german GP i think F2 cars could enter but weren’t classified, but i may have put some down as an entry as they were in the race.

    Same with some drivers who raced but only 1 car in their team was eligable to score points. I count this as a normal entry and normal points

    And races where half points were given i count as full points

    I’d like to publish it but I’m not sure how to and i couldn’t use excel as my version only allowed like 600 columns when i needed 850 (because theres been 850+ races)

    #179635
    Avatar of Guilherme
    Guilherme
    Member

    Yes Journeyer, check the second tab on the spreadsheet I linked on my first post, there is rates for wins and podiums there. Hamilton’s podium rate is 47.06% and Schuamcher’s rate is 54.80%

    Thank you for the suggestion, I will calculate it without retirements.

    Congratulations on finishing it 91jb12! I think you can upload it with Google Docs, regardless of the format.

    #179636
    Avatar of 91jb12
    91jb12
    Participant

    Cheers, will get it uploaded.

    Its up there but how would you be able to access it?

    #179637
    Avatar of pH
    pH
    Participant

    Re: Guilherme

    Concerning your note about presentation of results for teams, I once calculated for every team and every season the percentage of points earned with respect to available total, then charted it out. On reflection I decided to leave out all teams that did not consistently stay away from the 0-line to make the chart more readable.

    http://www.ulozto.cz/10497996/f1teams-png

    smaller version:

    http://www.ulozto.cz/10497997/f1teamssmall-png

    I find it a good way of comparing results, feel free to incorporate any ideas you like.

    There is a persistent problem with meaningful comparison. Since early 70′s all teams of note ran two cars, but before that teams sometimes ran more cars. In my comparison chart I decided to always include just two best results for every race per team, but even this does not make results comparable. There were cases where half a field was filled with cars of one team, potentially preventing other teams from scoring any points at all. In fact, in 1952 Ferrari won bigger share than 1-2 finishes all season long would guarantee theoretically as they occasionally muscled out other drivers from other scoring positions as well.

    #179638
    Avatar of Guilherme
    Guilherme
    Participant

    Finally, I finished it! Here is the link:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvO4ewlFHGzVdFYzQ3JablR2ekhaOFZIOFZHWjJsQXc

    All 629 drivers to have started a race, plus a list of 180 drivers who are credited with taking part on a race meeting, but did not meet my criteria for making it to the list. As 91jb12 said, there are inconsistencies regarding shared drives, and in some cases it makes some painful statistics. For example, a driver named Dorino Serafini raced only one race, shared his drive Alberto Ascari, and was credited with a second place. Thus, he is the only driver to have a 100% podium rate.

    So here are some notes:
    -Shared drives are considered as individual results.
    -Drivers who are credited with multiple results in the same race due to shared drives have only their best result counted in my list.
    -Drivers who raced F2 cars in a year other than 1952 and 1953 are not counted.
    -Drivers who withdrew their entries before racing in a session or were never granted a super license are not present at all – sometimes you can find these names on the internet, but not on my list.
    -No Indy 500 results here. If a driver has resutls in both Indy and other World Championship events (Troy Ruttman), only the World Championship results are present here
    -Drivers confirmed for 2012 are in bold.

    I hope you all enjoy it!

    @91jb12
    I don’t know if you’re still interested in showing your chart to us, but if you’ve uploaded it to google docs, simply open it there, and in the upper right corner there must be a button that reads “share”. Click on it, select the visibility option “anyone with the link”, accept the changes and paste the link to us :)

    @ph
    Thank you for your tips, even though it made give up completely on doing a teams chart :P Doing the drivers chart was hard enough with it’s inconsistencies in the ’50, so trying to do that with teams, sorting and nitpicking through the results would be simply too much work.

    #179639
    Avatar of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    Fantastic work @Guilherme, will have a good rummage through that when I’ve got some spare time.

    #179640
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    This is, hands down, the single most-mindblowing document of F1 and/or statistics I’ve ever seen.

    WOW. Well done, @Guilherme .

    #179641
    Avatar of Guilherme
    Guilherme
    Participant

    Thanks Keith! Should you ever want to use that data for something, you don’t even need to ask, I’d be honoured!

    And wow, thanks a lot @Journeyer! :)

    #179642
    Avatar of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    Paul di’Resta has the best rate of retirements (excluding one-time drivers I assume).

    I didn’t realise that if Barrichello doesn’t find a drive (fingers crossed) and Schumacher has a good 2012 and stays on a year, he’ll retake the lead in most starts.

    Very nice job.

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