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Do we now have a pecking order? (33 posts)

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Kingshark said 10 months, 3 weeks ago:

Mercedes’s entire performance is reliant on temperature, nothing more. I don’t think it could be any more obvious especially with Rosberg in Canada – He was very slow in the opening laps, but when the track temperature dropped drastically, he suddenly became the fastest car on the circuit. Another example being last race – Mercedes were horrendously slow in the first half of the race at Valencia; but once the track temperatures dropped both drivers charged their way back through the pack and Schumi even passed Webber, which would later earn him his first podium since his comeback.

Merc have been pretty unlucky with the weather so far this season, as we’ve had an usual amount of hot races. Well, next up are Silverstone and Hockenheim, two circuits which are generally cold, which should suit them. Let’s see what happens.

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raymondu999 said 10 months, 3 weeks ago:

I agree with @Kingshark, though I personally think that a Mercedes in cold weather is still a bit quicker (relative to the competition) than a Lotus in hot weather.

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TheJudge said 10 months, 3 weeks ago:

If we can believe Valencia race timetable,then deffinetly the Bulls with Seb are in the front in terms of pace,then I believe comes the Lotus with Grosjean ahead of Kimi,Mclaren with Hamilton and Ferrari with Alonso. The rest is so messed up that you can’t even know if they will be fighting for 15th place or 3-6.

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Prisoner Monkeys said 10 months, 3 weeks ago:

@thejudge – I don’t think we can believe Valencia at all. We had a pecking order going into the European Grand Prix, but the race itself changed everything. Sure, the Red Bull RB8 is very quick, but it’s always been a car that works well in higher temperatures. Silverstone, on the other hand, has been one of the cooler circuits of the calendar, so we can’t really read anything into Valencia.

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raymondu999 said 10 months, 3 weeks ago:

I think @thejudge has a point in that if we go to another similar layout and temperatures, then that will be the rough pecking order. But with differences so marginal among teams this year, differences between car strengths , which would not have had much impact to the pecking order in previous years, would make a big difference now, from layout to layout and temperature to temperature.

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Bullfrog said 10 months, 2 weeks ago:

Seems to me the teams are pretty much where they were in Melbourne, except Ferrari and McLaren have swapped places…

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Kingshark said 10 months, 2 weeks ago:

After Silverstone, I believe the pecking order is like this:

1. Lotus
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari
4. Williams
5. Sauber
6. Mercedes
7. Mclaren
8. Force India
9. Toro Rosso
10. Caterham
11. Marussia
12. Hispania

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Pamphlet said 10 months, 2 weeks ago:

Dare I say it?

In terms of overall package and considering all circumstances (dry/wet, hot/cold):

1. Ferrari
2. Red Bull
3. Lotus
4. McLaren
5. Williams
6. Mercedes
7. Sauber
8. Force India
9. Toro Rosso
10. Caterham
11. Marussia
12. HRT

Alonso lost the race of his own accord (even with the softs being so poor at Silverstone, how can you be slower than Massa on the final stint? And no, even as a Massa fan I don’t subscribe to the affirmations that he’s “back”. Not yet.), and Grosjean’s drive was mostly amplified by the fact that he was allowed to revert to a pseudo-1stopper thanks to the early pit.

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raymondu999 said 10 months, 2 weeks ago:

I’ve done some number-crunching, fuel-adjusting, and fitting a degradation model onto the tyres. It looks to me actually that Ferrari were just about neck and neck with Red Bull on the harder compound, but on the softs, the Ferrari were slow – and by slow I mean they were equal pace (fuel-adjusted) with McLaren.

I’d say:
1. Red Bull/Lotus – depending on conditions. But over a season, too close to call.
2. Ferrari – close, very close second
3. McLaren – they were rubbish on Sunday, but I’m convinced that that’s due to lack of dry running. McLaren generally don’t react as quickly when only having minimal amounts of data, due to their culture.
4. Williams
5. Mercedes/Sauber – again, a similar situation to Red Bull/Lotus
6. Force India – all alone, far from STR, but far from Mercedes/Sauber
7. Toro Rosso – all alone like Force India, but closer to Caterham than Force India are to them.
8. Caterham
9. Marussia
10. HRT

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raymondu999 said 10 months ago:

I’m tempted to say now that the Ferrari and Red Bull are equal firsts.

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Victor. said 10 months ago:

@raymondu999 McLaren’s pace in Germany can hardly be discarded…

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Silverkeg said 10 months ago:

I think the field has settled a bit with the Big Three making their way to the top.

1. Red Bull Red Bull probably have the most consistently fast car, somewhat better in hotter conditions

2. Ferrari Anyone who says the Ferrari is not a pacesetter now s kidding thenselves, Alonso has outperformed the car, but the car is now very good.

=3rd. McLaren/Lotus I always considered Silverstone an anomoly, but I’m unsure just where McLaren’s pace lies, Lotus are easily a match for the best in the races but their quali is not there. Lotus is very consistent though.

5th. Sauber Sauber are similiar to Lotus, but slightly less. At times in the race they look fiercely fast but quali is a weakness. Excellent on tyres too.

=6th. Williams/Mercedes Mercedes have seemingly gone nowhere, tracks where they expected to be strong, with cool conditions, they where midfield at best.
I am probably underselling the Williams, which might very well be a match for the Sauber or even McLaren/Lotus but like Mercedes, it is always there or thereabouts after it’s astounding win.

8th. Force India There is a clear gap between Force India and the others. They have a good advantage over Toro Rosso but lack the ultimate oace of the Sauber as well as lacking the kindness to their tyres. Their consostency is good though.

9th. Toro Rosso Toro Rosso are in no mans land, they just can’t seem to mix it with those ahead, while they maintain a margin over Caterham.

10th. Caterham Still a gap to the ‘midfield’ while being massively ahead of Marussia/HRT

11th/12th. Marussia/HRT Still at the back, the usual Marussia just over HRT in quali with a bigger advantage in the races.

After what was a crazy start, the big teams, as they inevitably would, have made their way to the front. But they don’t have a significant advantage at all and the clearly defined ‘midfield’ of the previous couple of season has somewhat disappeared with Lotus/Sauber/Williams all able to consistently exhibit race leading pace.

The gaps this year are still insanely close which is just phenomenal and fantastic. hopefully it continues for the rest of the season.

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Kingshark said 4 months, 3 weeks ago:

My apologies to the mods for bumping an over 5 month old thread, but now we are a day into 2013, can we confirm an all in all pecking order for 2012?

I’ll do a race by race short overview. Here’s how the scorecard goes like; I am using the most basic point system. Quite simply to put it, the team with the best car scores 5 points, the team with the second best car earns 4 points, 3rd best car 3 points, 4th best car 2 points, 5th best car 1 point, and the rest get zero. Also remember that overall pecking order is decided on race pace only.

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Kingshark said 4 months, 3 weeks ago:

Australia
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Williams
4.) Lotus
5.) Sauber

Malaysia
1.) Sauber
2.) Ferrari
3.) Red Bull
4.) Williams
5.) Mclaren

China
1.) Mercedes
2.) Mclaren
3.) Red Bull
4.) Lotus
5.) Williams

Bahrain
1.) Lotus
2.) Red Bull
3.) Mclaren
4.) Mercedes
5.) Ferrari

Spain
1.) Mclaren
2.) Williams
3.) Lotus
4.) Ferrari
5.) Sauber

Monaco
1.) Mercedes
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari
4.) Mclaren
5.) Lotus

Canada
1.) Mclaren
2.) Ferrari
3.) Red Bull
4.) Lotus
5.) Sauber

Europe
1.) Red Bull
2.) Lotus
3.) Williams
4.) Ferrari
5.) Mclaren

Great Britain
1.) Red Bull
2.) Ferrari
3.) Lotus
4.) Sauber
5.) Williams

Germany
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari
4.) Lotus
5.) Sauber

I’ll do the next 10 GP’s soon, if anyone else wants to have a shot with my scorecard system, feel more than free to do so.

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Kingshark said 4 months, 3 weeks ago:

Hungary
1.) Lotus
2.) Mclaren
3.) Red Bull
4.) Ferrari
5.) Williams

Belgium
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari
4.) Lotus
5.) Force India

Italy
1.) Ferrari
2.) Mclaren
3.) Sauber
4.) Mercedes
5.) Red Bull

Singapore
1.) Red Bull
2.) Mclaren
3.) Williams
4.) Ferrari
5.) Force India

Japan
1.) Red Bull
2.) Sauber
3.) Ferrari
4.) Mclaren
5.) Lotus

Korea
1.) Red Bull
2.) Ferrari
3.) Mclaren
4.) Lotus
5.) Force India

India
1.) Red Bull
2.) Ferrari
3.) Mclaren
4.) Lotus
5.) Williams

Abu Dhabi
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Lotus
4.) Ferrari
5.) Williams

America
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari
4.) Lotus
5.) Williams

Brazil
1.) Mclaren
2.) Force India
3.) Red Bull
4.) Ferrari
5.) Sauber

I will try to calculate the final score sometime soon.

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