F1

F1 Overtaking

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #329685
    dragoll
    Participant

    I’m interested in the people who I spoke with today about the race yesterday. Many see Rosberg’s pass on Kimi (which was deemed illegal by the race stewards) as a great overtaking manoeuvre.

    Call me old fashioned, but if a car occupies a piece of the tarmac and has to be pushed out of the way to execute a manoeuvre, then he has no place in attempting that manoeuvre.

    While I understand that drivers make mistakes and attempt to go for gaps that close down e.g. Vettel and Max, there was no real gap for Rosberg, other than the belief that Kimi would pre-empt his move and move out of the way.

    #329686
    glynh
    Participant

    It’s a very fine line admittedly but I love overtakes like that. Like Bianchi on Kobayashi a couple of years ago it shows drivers right on the limit.

    A bit of contact like that is fine for me because it’s equal to both drivers and,side on,is unlikely to cause a spin.

    #329701
    James Brickles
    Participant

    It was pretty much an identical move to the one Coulthard did to Schumacher in 1999.

    #329702
    Craig Woollard
    Participant

    I don’t get what the problem was. Aggressive, yes, but we have been crying out for that from Rosberg for years now. Neither car was damaged during the overtake, so as far as I’m concerned, it was a perfectly legitimate move.

    Some old-fashioned people love that kind of move! They keep on crying out for more daring racing like that battle at Dijon, and as soon as we get someone getting their elbows out, they get slammed for it.

    It shows what a sorry state F1 is in from a racing perspective when the only overtaking moves which appear to be acceptable are ones which are complete halfway down a ridiculously long straight, thanks to an unfair overtaking device. That is not what I want to see. I want to see hard but fair racing, from the time the lights go out, until the final car has passed the chequered flag.

    #329705
    WheelToWheel
    Participant

    When Rosberg does it it’s not fair but Bianchi’s move was identical. It was tough but fair and that’s the racing we want to see

    #329706
    HUHHII
    Participant

    @craig-o

    Neither car was damaged during the overtake

    That’s not true at all. Kimi’s car was damaged from the floor and front wing because of the impact. Arrivabene said the damage cost around 0.3s per lap for Kimi, which later on helped Rosberg to gain big enough margin. So all in all I’d say the move was ballsy but on the borderline concerning legality.
    I’m very surprised Rosberg’s tyre didn’t suffer a puncture after hitting Kimi’s front wing.

    #329709
    dragoll
    Participant

    @brickles

    It was pretty much an identical move to the one Coulthard did to Schumacher in 1999.

    Is there a video online of the pass you are talking of, I cannot remember that one.
    I found one of Coulthard passing Schumi in 2000 at Magny and there was contact, but wasn’t as forceful as Rosberg.
    2000 Magny Cours – Coulthard passes Schumacher

    #329710
    dragoll
    Participant

    @craig-o

    Aggressive, yes, but we have been crying out for that from Rosberg for years now.

    While I agree that Rosberg is a bit of a wet fish when it comes to wheel to wheel racing, it seems as though when he gets his elbows out, he seems to look clumsy. Austria this year is one case in point.


    @lolzerbob

    When Rosberg does it it’s not fair but Bianchi’s move was identical. It was tough but fair and that’s the racing we want to see

    This is the comment so far has made me think twice about my views on the incident. For those who haven’t seen the overtake, Bianchi Monaco 2014. I think the reason why it has me thinking is that I too agree that this is a great overtake. I think though that you need to take this in context, you just can’t pass at Monaco, so I think some leeway is acceptable, further to that point, Bianchi didn’t damage the Caterham he was passing.

    I believe my point at the moment still stands though. I don’t believe you can barge your way through and damage the guy ahead of you just to make a pass, it isn’t fair on the guy in front, in this case Kimi, the rest of his race is compromised because of an overtake. Imagine if it was Hamilton, there would be untold cries of foul play.

    Unless someone can provide some more evidence for me to consider? I’m open to changing my mind, but at the moment I can’t see it.

    #329713
    James Brickles
    Participant

    @dragoll – I have found the video you were requesting.

    #329777
    Adam Blocker
    Participant

    Bianchi lightly tapped the Caterham, while Rosberg completely slammed into the side of Raikkonen. The two are not comparable in my opinion (and the stewards didn’t think so either).

    If every driver showed the lack of respect for their competitors that Rosberg did to Raikkonen, F1 driving standards would become more like F3 driving standards from a couple of seasons ago. I say this from the perspective of an avid sim racer who hates drivers who decide to be heroes and dive bomb competitors or slash in front of competitors on turn in. It is better for everyone involved to be respectful to one another. Less collisions will happen and more wheel-to-wheel racing is possible.

    And this type of clean racing that I like is also more exciting than these inconsiderate barge moves like the one Rosberg did. Look at the Verstappen/Ricciardo fight from the last race. They went wheel-to-wheel for a good portion of the lap because they raced hard but made sure to give each other just enough space. I think most would agree that that was the most exciting moment of the GP and it wouldn’t have happened if one of them had decided to try to run the other off of the circuit.

    #329778
    dragoll
    Participant

    @brickles It’s funny isn’t it, that is virtually the same incident, the only difference is you could clearly see Schumacher reacting to DC’s move very quickly and Schumi got out of his way, but it was very light contact.

    I look at both the incidents and in my mind I feel Rosberg’s move is clumsy and overly aggressive, where as, I feel DC’s move is aggressive but doesn’t look as clumsy. But logic dictates that it is the same move, but to me the 2 moves feel different.

    But credit where credit is due, that’s a great point you’ve raised @brickles, I cannot really explain the difference other than a feeling I get.

    #329779
    Sean Richardson
    Participant

    In my opinion Rosberg didn’t seem fully in control of the car.
    On the exit of turn 1 he appears to light up the rears on acceleration and you can see him correct this straight away.
    He then dives immediately down the inside but the momentum he already has (and a lack of steering lock) take him into raikkonen.

    #329780
    PorscheF1
    Participant

    If that overtake deserves a +10 second penalty drivers better don’t try anything anymore and always just wait for the DRS. Looking forward to it,…

    #329803
    f1alex
    Participant

    Unfortunately it seems a lot of people are swayed by the fact it was Rosberg doing the move, as he has been guilty of a few incidents in the past. However this one I think was very hard but just about fair. If anything I think the Coulthard/Schumacher incident was worse because Coulthard was further back than Rosberg was. At the point of contact DC’s front wheel was in line with Schumacher’s sidepod, but with the Rosberg/Raikkonen incident, Nico’s nose was actually slightly ahead of Kimi’s. I think Rosberg deserves a bit more credit for the brave and hard racing he’s been doing this year. Of course, some have been over the limit (Austria), but moves like this and the one at Hockenheim (which I also think the penalty was undeserved) really show how much he wants this championship, which can only be a good thing for the sport, from a neutral’s point of view.

    #329804
    x303
    Participant

    I may be old fashioned too but I feel like @dragoll here: too clumsy for my taste. As @blockwall2 noted, this kind of move is not well regarded in simracing, where drivers are less skilled than F1 drivers.
    If amateurs can do it, then why can’t professionals?

    But I take the point that it is no different to what Bianchi did at Monaco. I’m a Hamilton fan so I’m biased toward Rosberg, and I must admit that I may have been more lenient has it been another driver than Rosberg. Maybe the penalty was too harsh, but the stewards had at least to notify that this is not F1 standards. The quality of racing has quickly dropped in the last few years in F3, it may drop as well in F1 if contacts are not discouraged.

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