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Hamilton – better in 07? (60 posts)

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Dizzy-A said 1 year, 9 months ago:

Agreed Asanator- Monza 09- pushing too hard catching Button on the last lap.

Spa 11- silly error passing a Sauber.

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Icthyes said 1 year, 9 months ago:

Hmm I have to say that is a point. I guess you could say he is that desperate for the points now (i.e then, the time of the incident) and to get as close as possible to the front now but we should really be seeing a few more hairy moments on his own for it to be a sufficient explanation for his incidents.

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Dizzy-A said 1 year, 9 months ago:

@ Kingshark -

Jenson was following the racing line, which moves to the left before turn 1.

Then you could argue that Hamilton was moving back to the racing line at Spa. As I implied, Hamilton’s car being next to Button’s did not cause a collision, Button taking that line on a straight caused it.

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Ell said 1 year, 9 months ago:

Many people have agreed that it was Jenson’s fault, I strongly believe that it is. But, back on topic, does anyone reckon it could be down to the pressure of being team leader, or having to make most of the input to the car?

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NotToThink said 1 year, 9 months ago:

Is he really team leader? I think McLaren’s current lineup is one of the few with genuinely equal status. And Button is now ahead in the championship too.

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Ell said 1 year, 9 months ago:

No, but in 2007 Hamilton wasn’t expected to make that much of an impression on the car, whereas now he is.

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raymondu999 said 1 year, 9 months ago:

@Ell – if you’re referring to technical input to the engineers who develop the car; I don’t think Hamilton does the bulk of it to be honest. I think it’s Jenson. Hear me out here.

If you’re giving an engineer input on how to improve and develop the car; you drive the car on the limit as you normally would. Now with your driving style, what’s lacking? Is it that you don’t have enough rear end stability on turn in? Is it that you get diff understeer as soon as you start to brake and turn in? Is it that you have to compromise too much traction to get a strong turn in?

Now, we all know that Jenson is one of the “pickiest” drivers on the grid; in that he has a very small operating window in terms of car balance. He has to sing the same note as the car; then he’ll be happy. Hamilton on the other hand is prepared to wrestle a badly handling car more; especially one with inherent instability. Even if the car produces understeer; it’s fairly easy to set it up to produce oversteer instead. Then Hamilton is back to his happy self again.

In this case; Hamilton wouldn’t have much to say. Jenson would be able to say, “the rear doesn’t stick to the road when I turn in at Ascari” while Hamilton wouldn’t. The tail would just slide, he’d compensate; and drive on.

Jenson’s “prima donna” attitude in terms of wanting super specific specifications on the car’s handling helps him to be more detailed in terms of giving feedback.

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Calum said 1 year, 9 months ago:

He was pretty damn good last year when you think about it, 3rd best car in the hunt for the title, lead in the championship midway through, then it just fell aprt… DNF in Hungary (5th place) and Spain (2nd place), stupid, needless crash in Monza when he could have waited and Low Downforce passed Massa, Button and maybe challanged Fernando, stupid crash in Japan, Singapore was costly too, though I beleive that was Webber’s fault.

So yeah, 2010 was great for a while, and but for a stone in the wheel rim in Spain (18pts) and a bit of maturity at Monza – maybe get a 2nd or 3rd place and he was champion. (I think…)

Obviosly he wasn’t though the result was Vettel, Webber and Alonso ahead but he drove very well.

Put it this way, Vettel, Alosno and Hamilton will be title faves next season no matter what before the season starts – that shows the calibre of all three drivers. (and indeed Mcl, Fer and RBR)

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raymondu999 said 1 year, 9 months ago:

You can’t say “X was unlucky” because all the others were that year. They all had reliability issues or team errors. Jenson in Monaco/Spa, Alonso had a couple of engine blowouts IIRC; Mark… well he had a perfect RB6 to be honest lol. Seb lost 3 wins; you can’t say “count reliability for driver X but not driver Y”

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Calum said 1 year, 9 months ago:

It was more the point that he got himself into a title fight in 2010, and depnding on swings of luck it could have went to any of them. When you are in the 3rd fastest car 5th would be good but Hamilton did better, and was close to the title.

The top 4 in 2010 all drove well, and no matter who had won going into the final race, you couldn’t take it away from them. Hamilton wasn’t crap in 2010,

I think his 2011poor form – which isn’t ‘poor’ just below his high standards, is down to his mindset, he beleives in a whole theory of positive vibes and energies and feeds of that, he’s probably down because the RedBull is faster amongst other things.

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raymondu999 said 1 year, 9 months ago:

I won’t deny he drove well in 2010 (except for Monza). While there were 2 cars that were (on the balance of the season) faster; he was only fighting 3. One was Massa who really gave up fighting after Hockenheim; so the Massa+Ferrari package was never going to challenge him. He finished 4th with 3 faster cars; rather than finish 4 with 4 faster cars.

Also, it says a lot that this year, in the SECOND fastest car, he’s 5th. While as you say, last year he was 4th (better placed) in the 3rd car (lower down the order)

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moussa said 1 year, 9 months ago:

IMO Hamilton is in a stage where he’s experianing racing the hard way, just look at what happened to micheal Schumacher in 1998, he was very agressive and was criticized for his driving style.

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raymondu999 said 1 year, 9 months ago:

Peter Windsor said something which intrigued me. Could it be that when Lewis came in; he started storming the field with his somewhat unconventional moves at times. However, now, other teams/drivers have caught on, and figured out countermoves that can defend successfully against those.

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madbob85 said 1 year, 9 months ago:

I’ve been thinking about this a bit lately, and wonder if it’s something more deep routed. If you look at Hamilton’s track record he stormed straight into a car that was good. Regardless of how the car performs the McClaren is always in the top 3 cars. Unlike most drivers he didn’t have to struggle with a car that was less competitive, or with teams with financial constraints. In other words, he never had it hard.

I think this matters because it helps to build resilience. Look at Vettel – obviously fast but had to make his chops with STR before he got a car that was competitive. Schumacher had his time with Jordan, Button’s resilience must be huge following the dark years with BAR and Honda. Having a driver that shoots straight into the triumvirate of Ferrari, Red Bull and McClaren is very unusual, and now that the car has had reliability and performance issues, we are seeing a different side to Hamilton.

I think this also may help to explain the differences between Hamilton and Button. Same team, same car, but Button knows what it’s like to have to fight for every point and simply gets on with it – his car is still a lot better than he is used to! Hamilton – well he seems to blame others and find a lot more excuses, it’s only recently that he has started admitting to his mistakes. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction and an indication that his resilience is growing!

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raymondu999 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

I don’t think it’s “resilience” as such, but appreciation. Button, Alonso Vettel knows what it’s like to be fighting to be in the points; so when they get a regular podium finisher, or a potential race winner, they appreciate the opportunity more.

The more I’ve been thinking about Button vs Hamilton in 2011; the more it reminds me of Webber vs Vettel in midseason 2010. Webber just found an absolutely beautiful place in his life and his driving was magnificent. Back then I attributed it to Vettel being mentally unsettled because of Webber’s strong midseason performances; and once he regained his composure; after the Spa collision with Button; he regained form.

Personally I think that this is what is happening with Lewis vs Jenson. Don’t get me wrong; Jenson is a fantastic driver; but I firmly believe that right now we’re seeing an on-form Jenson Button vs a not-on-form Lewis. If both were on form; I would bet my bottom dollar that Lewis would come back on top. Having said that; Jenson’s strength; after his 2009 title win; seems to be that he DOESN’T go off form a lot. He’s in a good place mentally and is infinitely confident about anything and everything in his life and in his career.

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