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F1

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F1 discussion

Hamilton in this year’s McLaren

This topic contains 15 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Still camileon Still camileon 1 year, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #133008
    Avatar of craig-o
    craig-o
    Participant

    I can remember back in 2011, many people posed the question, “I wonder how Kubica would do in this year’s Renault” as they started relatively strong, many of us would have predicted more than just 2 podium finishes that year with the Pole in the car.

    So I have a similar question. How would Hamilton do (so far) in this year’s McLaren? It’s a tricky one, because a lot of us were divided while him and Button were teammates, as to which one was better overall. It was clear Hamilton was the better qualifier, but on many occasions Jenson was able to pull something out of the bag, especially in mixed conditions. Don’t get me wrong, I think Jenson has had quite a strong start to the season, provided how far off the pace McLaren were in Melbourne, he had some strong drives in Malaysia and in China. Perez however has been very slow off the mark, and I would assume with Hamilton behind the wheel he would have finished higher than 11th, 9th and 11th in the three races so far. Button has had 9th, RET and 5th so far.

    In Melbourne I think Button would have had the upper hand over Hamilton, it’s a circuit he usually thrives on and qualifying was run in mixed conditions. In Malaysia, I think Hamilton would have had the edge, only slightly. I think in qualifying for China Hamilton would have been quicker over 1 lap, but strategy would play in Button’s favour. In short, I think overall Hamilton would have the edge over Button in equal machinery, albeit not by much.

    P.S. I take back my words saying at the time Hamilton has gone and “Villeneuved”.

    #231939
    Avatar of tmekt
    tmekt
    Participant

    Yeah I think Button has performed very well in the first few races, especially this Sunday. Impossible to say where Hamilton would be in that same car but the way Button has been beating his team-mate tells you something I think (although it’s still very early).

    Hamilton definitely hasn’t Villeneuved but is Perez Kovalaining?

    #231940
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    Hamilton was usually quicker than Button. The fact that Jenson finished 5th has me wondering if that McLaren might just be as quick as the Mercedes. Though Lewis did finish 23 seconds ahead of Jenson; so most probably the WO4 was still a bit quicker than the MP4-28.

    That being said, I expect McLaren to out-develop Mercedes as usual by the end of the season.

    #231941
    Avatar of Funkyf1
    Funkyf1
    Participant

    I don’t think you can compare the two cars. Hamilton would have also struggled with that Mclaren. We’ve had many different debates over the two drivers and there styles in which 99%of us believe they are totally different. Asfor Mclaren out devolving Mercedes, not this year Kingshark, the team at Merc have enough resources now to work on this years car, next years car and next years engine. They might even build Lewis his own plane while they are at it.

    #231942
    Avatar of JamieFranklinF1
    JamieFranklinF1
    Participant

    Given how unreliable Mercedes could be sometimes, I wouldn’t really trust them to build a plane, but that’s just me.

    As for the Hamilton and Button debate. I don’t think that Hamilton could have extracted much more from that that car, if any. I can maybe see him being slightly higher in Aus, but in Malaysia and China, Button was where he was because of his strategy, which we’ve seen on many occasions that Button has the temperament to carry out a little better. In Malaysia, he was on for 3rd-5th before the pit stop blunder, and China, he did very well to get 5th, and finish in front of Massa and Grosjean, the two cars which won the race.

    I’ll also say that McLaren would be doing better in the constructors if they had both drivers though, as Perez has been quite poor. Button is no great qualifer. He can be, but not usually, and Perez has been a long way off him.

    #231943
    Avatar of GeeMac
    GeeMac
    Participant

    I approve of the creation of the words “Villeneuved” and “Kovalainened”. These should be submitted to the Oxford English dictionary people for immediate insertion into the 2013 edition.

    #231944
    Avatar of Bendanarama
    Bendanarama
    Participant

    I will say this on Perez’s behalf: it’s been three races, and he did come in relatively late in the new cars devlopment cycle. I think he will improve. Much as I like Button, guys like Perez are the future – F1 can’t afford to keep dropping young guys after two/three years.

    #231945
    Avatar of Asanator
    Asanator
    Participant

    ” it’s been three races, and he did come in relatively late in the new cars devlopment cycle.”

    I don’t see the relevance of this comment!

    #231946
    Avatar of Bendanarama
    Bendanarama
    Participant

    I don’t see the relevance of this comment!

    Because F1 cars are designed with the specific teams drivers in mind. When a Driver comes in late in a development cycle, it means that they are stepping into a car that has essentially been designed for someone else. the team then has a very finite amount of time to adapt the car to the new driver, and cannot always do so in a way that helps them get the most out of the car. They then have to try and reach that level through upgrades which – at this point – it is too early in the season to do.

    #231947
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @Bendanarama
    Agreeded- and that is why Sutil has both impressed and surprised me in he first two races so far- better than I thought he may be- but we’ll see. (I say the first two, he did not impress me in China).

    I have been a big backer of Perez on this forum- and certaily still am. But Checo has been disappointing but it does show how a more experianced driver like Jenson responds to driving ‘a dog’. Perez will come good, but ironic that Hamilton had left for a ‘slower car’ !!

    I still see the Mercs and Lotus havin’ a day out’ rather than more consistent like Red Bull and the Prancing Horse. Both may win two or three GP each this year, but find them hard to battle Fernando or Vettel.

    Also is Romain still driving this year- what has happened to his speed?? After last year (even thought I went all that way to Japan to see me him take out my fav WB on T2) I really would love to see Grosjean take a win this year- but he seems well off!!

    As for Lewis in this years McLaren? Didnt Button beat him for points in their 3 years as team mates??

    #231948
    Avatar of Ed Marques
    Ed Marques
    Participant

    Yes, Button finished 3 points ahead, but look how many times Lewis had mechanical failures If wasn’t for that he probably would have been champion last year. Although it’s interesting this discussion won’t go anywhere. But i’ll give my opinion too. For sure Hamilton would be qualifying better. As for the races i think it would be about the same, given that Hamilton dealed with tyres very well on the past year and on this too.

    #231949
    Avatar of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    “As for Lewis in this years McLaren? Didnt Button beat him for points in their 3 years as team mates??”

    Points not only don’t tell the full story (Hamilton and Button finished close last year, but that in no way reflected their respective seasons), but points also only matter over a single season. Hamilton was better in two of their 3 years together. His biggest problem in 2011 which lead to Button beating him was his inconsistency and propensity for getting involved in incidents- assuming Hamilton doesn’t revert back to that this season, its a fair assumption that he’d be beating Button if they were still in the same team.

    #231950
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @Ed Marques
    Yes mate but if you want to play that card I need to play the “Webber’s consiparcy theories” in that Red Bull retire his car on purpose LOL- Webber has been unlucky and so has Hamilton- cant agree more that Lewis may have taken the title last year, as much as I argue Webber WAS WDC in 2010 IF he just hadnt crashed in Korea……………. but he did!!

    I have said before Lewis quicker, Jenson seemed more reliable- IMO!!

    #231951
    Avatar of Asanator
    Asanator
    Participant

    @Bendanarama

    Hmm, unfortunately that is one of the constantly trotted out myths in F1, that Drivers have an influence in the design of a car. It is nonsense. All F1 teams design their car to be as fast as possible full stop. All the driver can really do is make suggestions about the ergonomics of their driving environment until they start testing and know what they have underneath them. The designers don’t design in a slidier rear end for Lewis or a Understeery front end for Fernando, those tweeks are done with setup.

    #231952
    Avatar of Ed Marques
    Ed Marques
    Participant

    It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, and the comparasion you made is outplaced. As matt90 said, the points itself don’t tell the full story. But as I said before, this discussion will lead nowhere.

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