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F1 discussion

Hamilton on Vettel: “He is not unbeatable, his car is”

This topic contains 60 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Loup Garou Loup Garou 10 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 61 total)
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  • #242712
    Avatar of Jon Sandor
    Jon Sandor
    Member

    Everyone thought Villeneuve was the next big thing

    It’s funny you should mention Villeneuve, as the parallels between him and Hamilton are uncanny. Both were thought of as the next big thing. Both had outstanding rookie seasons, both finishing second in the WDC in only their first year. Both won four race in their first season. Both won the WDC in only their second year in F1. Both finished fifth in their third year. Both changed their drives for big money to a wealthy new team.

    Villeneuve gets a bad rap, he was a talented driver but he moved for money instead of for the best car.

    #242713
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @full-throttle-f1

    I don’t want to be bothersome, but whate exactly of that makes him that superior to Vettel? Remember, I’m not saying Hamilton is bad, or that Vettel is better. I’m curious about why you rank him that high in comparison (top 15 ever vs not even all time great), when their performance on track mirror eachother greatly.

    Hamilton has showed great races in frontrunners cars, true for 2008, 2007 and 2012. But so has Vettel in 2011, 2012, 2013.

    Hamilton has showed great races in not so great cars, true, also for Vettel in Toro Rosso.

    As I mentioned earlier, the whole spectrum is for both equal, wet races, comebacks, dominant races, one-lap greatness, etc.

    I’m just curious about what was that thing Hamilton did in your eyes to put him so above from Vettel.

    #242714
    Avatar of Lucas Wilson
    Lucas Wilson
    Participant

    @silence I never said, and I will say this again, that Vettel is not an all-time great, I just think that he has to prove himself in a car that is not a WDC winning car. Please don’t bring up Monza 2008, it was a wet race. Wet races shake up the order (Perez in Malaysia 2012) and it turns out that in that day in F1 that Toro Rosso got everything right, people seem to forget that in that race, Vettels teammate, Bourdais, was 4th.

    As regards why I think Hamilton is a top driver, I presume you have not read my above post ;-D

    #242715
    Avatar of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    “Remember which driver has 2 wins now.”

    Is it the driver who inherited one of those wins from his team mate? Rosberg has been impressive this year, but Hamilton has finished ahead on merit more often.

    #242716
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @full-throttle-f1 I read that post, that’s exactly why I’m asking, because nothing there show any massive superiority from Hamilton. As I said, every good or impressive feat Hamilton has done is mirrored by one of Vettel’s.

    And it was not just Monza, in general was a pretty good season for him. Unless you want to tell me that Hamilton’s 2009 was SO MUCH BETTER on the McLaren.

    #242717
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    Talking of people forgetting things about Monza: Vettel was on a dry set-up that weekend. Pole and win, in the wet, with a dry set-up. Don’t forget.

    #242718
    Avatar of Lucas Wilson
    Lucas Wilson
    Participant

    @silence

    I presume you are Hami hater :-)

    In response to the above post, obviously it worked for Toro Rosso :-)

    #242719
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    So what is the difference then between “superb performance” and “obviously it worked”?

    #242720
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @full-throttle-f1 I don’t hate Hamilton, not even close. And I’m quite curious about what exactly made you think that. Not everyone that doesn’t think he’s FAR superior hates him.

    I’m quite fond of him actually. I consider him an exceptional driver, top 3 of the grid. I just don’t see what exactly has he done to be a “top 15 ever”, when Vettel, who has done at least the same, isn’t even an all time great.

    I’m just curious about the black and white judgement you seem to have about them, when their peformance on merit has been so close. It’s a simple curiosity to me, what was that *amazing* thing that Hamilton did that Vettel hasn’t done to put him that high in comparison. Because the differences between V2008-H2009 are hardly that big.

    #242721
    Avatar of MazdaChris
    MazdaChris
    Participant

    Hamilton has had the fastest car through most of the year and yet is in with no chance of winning the championship. This “Vettel only wins because of the car” nonsense is ridiculous, because it implies that this is a negative quality. If you say Vettel only wins because of the car, then it means that his rivals fail to win because of their cars. In effect, no driver wins without the car being effectively the fastest on the day. Either through design or circumstance, or a combination of the two.

    If you want to find a poor driver, look for the one who is losing in the fastest car, not the one who is winning. Nobody can consistently win in a car which is consistently slower than its rivals.

    #242722
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @mazdachris I don’t think that’s fair. While the Mercedes has been superb on one-lap performance and speed, its tyre management and race pace have always suffered heavily. In a whole weekend basis, they have been a step behind RB from some time.

    Though it is true that more than once this season Hamilton has underperformed, while Vettel has been constantly at his best. Whatever you say about each car performance, there’s no denying Vettel has done his job flawlessly.

    #242723
    Avatar of Lucas Wilson
    Lucas Wilson
    Participant

    lol, I see were this is going. This is my last comment.

    I think Vettel and Hamilton are both great drivers, just that I think Vettel just needs to show a bit more. Obviously Vettel fans will pick on anything negetive anyone says about Vettel. Yet they seem to forget all the good things I said about Vettel. That fact that people attribute all of RB’s success to Vettel is silly, Red Bull needs Vettel and Vettel needs Red Bull, its a two way thing, they have found something special, the car suits his driving style. The team is clearly the best in F1 at the moment. The fact that I prefer Hamilton as a personal descion, I you prefer Vettel than that’s your choice. Nuff Said :-)

    #242724
    Avatar of MazdaChris
    MazdaChris
    Participant

    Well, exactly. Where are all the mistakes and poor driving from Vettel that the car is supposedly making up for? Vettel has been virtually flawless. He’s absolutely demolished his teammate, on whose performance alone you’d simply think of the Red Bull as an occasional podium challenger rather than some kind of all-conquering monster.

    If the RB9 was genuinely head and shoulders above the rest of the field it wouldn’t have been beaten in qualifying through most of the season.

    Hamilton’s comment merely suggests that he feels that if he was in the same car as Vettel, he thinks he’d be able to beat him. Fine, he can have that opinion. But until he actually proves it, there’s no real evidence to suggest that he could. Maybe he’s wrong. Maybe Vettel in that Mercedes would be dominating in just the same way as he is now. You really have no way of knowing. Only theories. Theories don’t win championships.

    Ironically it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that Hamilton could have held out for an opportunity to secure a seat at Red Bull if he hadn’t been lured to the perpetual also-rans at Brackley by the promise of flashy road cars and a big pay cheque.

    #242725
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @full-throttle-f1 You seem to have greatly missed the point of my questioning. I don’t fault you (or even care, to be honest) if you prefer Hamilton over Vettel. Thousands of people do, it’s natural, as in any sport. Same for Raikkonen, Alonso, and such. I’m perfectly fine with that (and why shouldn’t I?). The fun of this is the difference of opinions!

    I was just curious about the huge difference you see between the two, while I, trying to be as objective as I can, simply can’t. If there’s any difference, in favor of either one, is not really a huge one.

    So I wanted, for the sake of curiosity and discussion, know what was that amazing thing that put Hamilton head and shoulders above Vettel.

    And sadly I’m quite unsatisfied on that regard :-(

    #242726
    Avatar of Lucas Wilson
    Lucas Wilson
    Participant

    @silence

    I don’t think it is one massive thing, out of the cockpit counts as well, if I had to have a chat with one of them it would be Lewis. I can’t really say much more, this does not mean that I will never rank Vettel higher. I’ll probably be Vettels biggest fan in a few years :-)

    would I like to see Vettel and Hamilton in the same car YESSSSS!!!

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