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F1 discussion

Has Adrian Sutil really had his chance?

This topic contains 15 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Iceman Iceman 1 year, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #132751
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    I’ve read this quite a lot on this site, and it was even quoted in the recent COTD. But I really don’t know what people are basing themselves on when coming to that assessment.
    I would argue that Sutil hasn’t had his chance yet. He has deserved to move to a top team, but never made the move. Yes, I would go as far as saying that Sutil is potential WDC material, at a level of Felipe Massa’s good days (which might just be coming back).
    In his last season, he was considered a Top 5 driver by the majority readers of this website. And he’s always been at least Top 10, consistent and at times impressive.
    Even in his Spyker years, he was able to leave a lasting impression as the best of the rest. In 2010, he scored 47 points in a Force India, 15 more than Kobayashi (cited by some as much more worthy of the seat) in the BMW. Liuzzi scored a mere 21 points, and I’ve seen some compare Sutil’s level to that of the italian – laughable! Sutil scored as many points as Barrichello in the Williams, leaving Hülkenberg clearly behind.
    In 2011, Sutil was clearly the best of the rest. Once again, Kobayashi was clearly beaten (42×30), smashed Di Resta on points and also on the long run of the season, after a relatively poor start. And in this last six F1 races, he always finished Top 11, even not sitting in the 5th best car at the time.
    Put him in a McLaren this season, and I think he could gather more points than Perez will.
    Force India have given him a way back into Formula 1. Sutil has given Force India their best general results, finishing 10th and 9th in the WDC.
    What I’d really like is to see him driving a car capeable of victories.
    If your not convinced of Sutil’s skills, he will teach you a lesson in 2013, no doubt in my mind. If it’s because of his crime, then I respect your opinion. But don’t discard Sutil based on the fact that you might think he has had his chance. He still deserves a real chance, in my view.

    #227737
    Avatar of Slr
    Slr
    Participant

    I think for most people Hulkenberg is the man who deserves a front running car more than anyone else. Looking at Sutil’s results he isn’t anymore consistent that Kobayashi or Perez, also Force India had a better car than Sauber in 2010 and 2011 so I wouldn’t compare their points totals. I do think he’s better than Di Resta and he was unfortunate to lose his seat, but I wouldn’t say he deserves a front running car anymore than Hulkenberg, Perez, Kobayashi and co.

    #227738
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    Magon makes a fair point about Sutil, but to me, Formula 1 isn’t about chances, it’s about results. Sutil did fine, but I’ve never heard anyone praise him like you do, to be honest. Most people I know consider him a solid points scorer, even though his results have been inconsistent.

    There are many drivers who have deserved a shot with a race winning car, but Sutil was simply never asked to do so. As far as we know, he has never been on the list of a team other than Force India and now he’s returning there, which does make me question his appeal to the top teams, regardless of his crime.

    People are writing off Perez in the same manner they’ve written off Massa when he joined Ferrari in 2006, stating Ferrari should have retained Rubens, or get another mid-field driver. I think Sutil has a difficult age as well, he’s too old to be considered a young potential, but hasn’t been in F1 long or successfully enough to warrant a seat at a better team or to consider retirement.

    Again, there are a lot of drivers who I’d love to have gotten a 2nd, 3rd or 14th chance. They usually don’t get to, because there are a ton of drivers who don’t need a second chance to be successful.

    #227739
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    Sutil was on the McLaren list quite some times, and was even negociating with Ferrari as early as last year.

    #227740
    Avatar of Garns
    Garns
    Participant

    @Nick – People are writing off Perez in the same manner they’ve written off Massa

    Totally agree mate! Checo will raise a few eyebrows this year for sure!!

    #227741
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Magon makes a fair point about Sutil, but to me, Formula 1 isn’t about chances, it’s about results. Sutil did fine, but I’ve never heard anyone praise him like you do, to be honest. Most people I know consider him a solid points scorer, even though his results have been inconsistent.

    There are many drivers who have deserved a shot with a race winning car, but Sutil was simply never asked to do so. As far as we know, he has never been on the list of a team other than Force India and now he’s returning there, which does make me question his appeal to the top teams, regardless of his crime.

    People are writing off Perez in the same manner they’ve written off Massa when he joined Ferrari in 2006, stating Ferrari should have retained Rubens, or get another mid-field driver. I think Sutil has a difficult age as well, he’s too old to be considered a young potential, but hasn’t been in F1 long or successfully enough to warrant a seat at a better team or to consider retirement.

    Again, there are a lot of drivers who I’d love to have gotten a 2nd, 3rd or 14th chance. They usually don’t get to, because there are a ton of drivers who don’t need a second chance to be successful.

    I totally agree with what Nick ( @npf1 ) has said… Sutil would be a second fidle at best… he´s not WDC material…. he did have a better car in 2010 and 2011 than Sauber yet he never did stand out.. that says a lot… Personally, I´m disgusted at the news… I would much rather have Bianchi onboard who has proven to be faster than Sutil… It´s just a darn shame this guy the drive…

    #227742
    Avatar of Nicholas Sunderland
    Nicholas Sunderland
    Participant

    @catracho504 When exactly did Bianchi prove to be faster?

    #227743
    Avatar of David-A
    David-A
    Participant

    Sutil didn’t came across as a top driver to me, but he was a solid F1 driver, you can’t have 22 Alonso/Vettel/Raikkonen quality drivers on the grid, so I don’t see why so many are opposed to him being back in the sport. Plus, though Bianchi may have missed out, we do have quite a few rookies on the grid anyway.

    #227744
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @brazil2007

    When exactly did Bianchi prove to be faster?

    The times he has driven for FI, he has been quicker… anyways… Sutil is just overrated and was better off retired.

    @david-a

    you can’t have 22 Alonso/Vettel/Raikkonen quality drivers on the grid, so I don’t see why so many are opposed to him being back in the sport.

    Agreed but if you think about it… he had a better car in 2010 and 2011 than Perez and who was able to move up??

    though Bianchi may have missed out, we do have quite a few rookies on the grid anyway.

    It´s not about having rookies on the grid…. it´s missing out on a talented driver over one that is just a points scorer… Bianchi, I think, could´ve done a Perez type season…. whereas Sutil is just going to be constantly in the lower half of the top ten at best… FI needs podiums… and honestly, I don´t see Sutil delivering.

    People hint that they took him for the Mercedes´ engines… everybody is ruling Ferrari out of the engine race in 2014… and it seems that they forget that Ferrari had a good turbo engine back in 1981… They are no strangers to Turbo engines and for sure, they will do their best effort in this new turbo era.

    #227745
    Avatar of BenH
    BenH
    Participant

    The “he’s just a points scorer” argument is contradictory in itself. he has been a points scorer yes and he did that when we generally only had a handful of winners a season. I think this past season has spoiled us with new winners. We need reminding that cars are closer now than in previous seasons, mainly due to rule stabilization, bringing all the teams closer together. So to be in the points solidly is something to be proud of, as usually the top few spots were always from one of the big 2-4 teams. Sutil still has something to give to the F1 grid and I am glad he is back driving. His off-track incident, however, is why many will jump the gun and say he is not worthy. Bianchi is young and will get his chance at some point (probably at Sauber if Gutierrez doesnt work out or Hulkenberg makes a move higher up). The guy is quick, but what they need now is someone reliable to push the team alongside di Resta who, lets face it, will just moan and moan and strikes me as not being one to give much useful feedback (FI slipped back a bit later on last season and I wonder if his useless comments and rants to the press had something to do with it?). Could maybe even see Bianchi alongside Sutil next season if di Resta doesnt stop throwing his toys out of the helicopter.

    #227746
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    I’m just saying: Sutil will prove that he deserves this seat, and even better.

    #227747
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    You know who Sutil reminds me of?

    Nick Heidfeld. Lite.

    He can deliver solid results, perhaps even surprise you from time to time. I call Sutil “lite” because unlike Heidfeld, he’s missed some good chances to get onto the podium (especially in 2009). I guess I just feel I’ve already seen Sutil at his best, and unless he gets a better car, that’s as good as he will get. And unless Sutil gets a seat in a Red Bull (unlikely with AFDC coming), Ferrari (Hulkenberg in line), McLaren (Perez just came in) or Lotus (Eric Lux, end of story), he’s not going any further.

    #227748
    Avatar of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    I said it. Hope it goes on. Ridiculous Pirelli’s cost him a better position. That window of performance is just much too narrow.

    #227749
    Avatar of infernojim
    infernojim
    Participant

    I think you are right, but its stupid force India that cost him there. Those tyres were never going 11 laps. Ultimately he only lost 4 points and 2 places

    #227750
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    Despite the poor strategy, he still beat his highly-rated (by the BBC) teammate Paul di Resta, on his first race since his 2011. Not a bad way to start your comeback.

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