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F1 discussion

has alonso lost the plot

This topic contains 18 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of roba roba 3 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #127851
    Avatar of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    sbl on tour here, as a great nando fan it hurts me greatly to say that he has behaved like a right edjut over the past few races, dont think he will do anything of note in germany either

    sbl on tour

    #142497
    Avatar of Ads21
    Ads21
    Participant

    Interesting question but you probably could have worded it better. I think there could be whole books written analysing the pyschology of Fernando Alonso. I’ll try and keep my thoughts brief.

    Basically Alonso is an extroadinarily passionate and driven individual which is his greatest strength and weakness. It takes him beyond his natural ability and results in millimetrically perfect consistancy and focus when at his best. Look at Fuji 2008 and countless example in 2005 and 2006 when Alonso could relentlessly pound in lap after lap at the absolute maximum of the car. It also produces moments of inspiration like passing Schumi around 130R and can see him turn adversity to his advantage with amazing performances at Monza, Suzuka 06 and Monza, Spa 07 when he was under the greatest outside pressure.

    But for a man who is the best driver in the world it seems his confidence can be shaken remarkably easily and therefore constantly feels the need to prove himself. Alonso therefore requires a loyal team that he has complete faith in and subsequently could not handle the hostile environment of the McLaren team where he only sporadically produced the brilliance we all know he is capable of.

    As Mark Hughes pointed out in autosport a couple of years ago there is another interpretation that he is so certain of his own ability that the idea of anyone matching him simply does not compute. Hense the disastrous time at McLaren when Hamilton was able to do just that.

    I tend to think that its more the former argument and the feeling that he had to prove himself need to to prove himself was only worsened by 2007. The pressure that he has now put on himself to make up for 2007 and the wilderness years of ’08 and ’09 seems to have pushed that fire in his belly too far and he is making unusual mistakes of the kind he would never have made in 2006.

    As for this year the frustration must be unbearable, because if we’re fair whatever the mistakes he’s made he’s had some atrocious luck which has prevented him building up any momentum towards that title he so badly wants.

    Alonso also is often remarkably matter of fact with the media and produces many of his best lines from the heart. There’s few PR answers in press conference you get straight talking which sometimes lands him in trouble (see Monza 06, Singapore 09 or Valencia a few weeks ago) but you feel it’s really him. Which for me is far better than the contrived “thanks to the team” answers from the likes of Hamilton. But all too often the passion Alonso shows is very easily but wrongly portrayed in the British press as him being a whinging Spaniard who can’t handle being beat.

    Whether you like him or not his character is far more fascinating and complex than any other driver on the grid. For me he’s not only the best driver on the grid and my hero for beating Schumi, but warts and all he’s far more human and genuine than those who wish to keep a squeeky clean image for the sponsers.

    #142498
    Avatar of Steph90
    Steph90
    Member

    Ads has pretty much said everything perfectly there as only I feel an Alonso fan or even someone who disliked him could because they refelect that passion. He’s very much a love/hate character which I don’t think is just down to 07 but his general character.

    I think with the two arguments/cases Ads present there is perhaps a compromise. I think Alonso can get lost in the belief that he is the best but I think every driver, or at least every champion has to have that. I think that leaves him incredibly vulnerable though because that leads to this passion and intensity that he has to show it all of the time.

    I’ve always admired Alonso. I haven’t always been his biggest fan however. In 06 as much as I wanted Ferrari to win (of course upset with that Monaco manouever), Alonso was the driver that year that caught me and the same in 07 when Massa got knocked out. For me, it’s always about passion and that’s why he has completely won me over this year. His depth of passion though (why I like Felipe but it’s possessed him and it means when he’s been comfortable and confident this year like Bahrain and Aus he’s seemed on top of the world but then it swings to outrage or as EJ described him “an angry man”. I think for such a calculating and clever driver, he’s the most emotional on the grid.

    I’ve always said I hate comparing drivers but there was one documentary I saw it was about Senna but there was a quote which applies to characters of this nature. I can’t remember it exactly but Brundle said that he was a genius but so close to being unbalanced because of it. I’m not comparing Alonso to Senna, they’re individuals but I think that quote could fit Alonso’s character. That sometimes it’s a little over the edge. It’s just up to us fans whether that should be admired or worried/incredulous about.

    Thanks Ads by the way, I love reading interpretations of drivers and how their fans feel about them. It was a thoroughly fascinating and enjoyable read. I like your Alonso picture too. Whenever he does that pose I always think he’s secretly shouting that he’s the king of the world for some reason :S

    #142499
    Avatar of Scribe
    Scribe
    Participant

    First of all, as a McLaren fan I must say this isn’t my own theory I’m advancing, first heared it on James Allens blog, an elsewhere since but I’ve always found it an interesting one.

    Just think, without Lewis Hamilton, Alonso would probably be a four times world champion, already. Probably be looking at a fifth this year as well, in Aryton Senna’s team, apparently Alonso is one of the many who idolised him, though he doesn’t talk about it too often, an McLaren was his dream team, what he aspired too. But a combinaition of Hamilton, Dennis and his own temprement at the time ruined it for him, given the chance to do it again, I think Alonso would still be at McLaren, if only to finish buisness properly with Hamilton.

    Alonso pre-Hamilton didn’t have any doubts, an didn’t have any preassure, Schumacher took care of preassure and he was certain in his ability, and he used to be right, he didn’t have off days, champion twice, despite the FIA’s best efforts in 2006 and on to dominaite for an era with McLaren. Hamilton, is as talented as him, of that there can be no doubt, there strengths differ but Alonso saw him self as once in a generation, unfortunatltey the next one came early. It went catastrophically wrong in 07, huge mistakes were made on both Dennis and Alonso’s sides, whatever your opinions on that year an as a McLaren fan, let me tell you I would rather Alonso was here with us at the height of his powers, Alonso regrets it as much as the next man.

    An then came two years in the wilderness to be bittter, an not the golden child that could do no wrong, an I don’t think it dulled his skills, I just think it added preassure. Hamilton added doubt, just the slightest bit, 07 added regret an anger, Renault 08 and 09 thinking about getting back on top added preassure, joining Ferrari, finally having the chance to do it all again an be champion sent it sky high.

    So to answer the original post, has Alonso lost the plot, no, look what he’s doing to Massa, his luck has been atrocious since and during Canada. Is he as good as he was, no the preassures got to him an he’s making mistakes, people on form tend to make their own luck by being there to get it. Still a run of sucsess could give him back his edge, an Ferrari might come through next year, never write him off, Alonso is going to be a facinaiting ascepct of F1 for quite some time.

    #142500
    Avatar of Ads21
    Ads21
    Participant

    Read that from JA as well the other day and he’s right about Alonso being a 4 time champion by now if not for Hamilton, with the irony being Hamilton could never have gotten the McLaren drive if Dennis didn’t already have the certainty of a double world champion in the team.

    I’m pretty sure in decades to come F1 fans will talk of the Alonso vs Hamilton rivalry as being as great if not greater than Prost vs Senna

    #142501
    Avatar of Scribe
    Scribe
    Participant

    Err, well Lewis had already proven his talent, he wouldn’t have spent more than a season in a lower team like Senna Schumacher Alonso before being snapped up by a biggi. Dominaiting Euro Series an GP2 made it possible for a big team to sign him straight off.

    Personally, I feel because Hamilton can keep a tighter check on his emotions, an he’s gone through rough times this year an last, an because he does seem to edge it on 1 lap pace that he is F1 package, in that he can get the best from himself with total consistancy.

    just want to mention, what i got from JA was 4WCC an mclaren dream team, everything else is just personal speculation

    #142502
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Alonso has now come out and said he’s going to win the title. He also expects to be matching – if not besting – Red Bull in Germany.

    Diagnosis: bonkers.

    #142503
    Avatar of Ned Flanders
    Ned Flanders
    Participant

    It’s been interesting reading everyone’s opinions of Alonso… I really hate him these days (a combination of his bad behaviour and the fact he drives for my least favourite team), but back in 2005/ 2006 he was probably my favourite driver

    Oh Fernando, why couldn’t you stop moaning on so often…. them me and you could still be pals

    #142504
    Avatar of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    bout ye ned, good post, hit the spot, the others all seem to writing “mills and boons”,(but they make valid points) i,m that cheesed off with him i,m thinking of not taking my alonso/ferrari kit to germany

    sbl on tour

    #142505
    Avatar of Steph90
    Steph90
    Member

    I don’t think Fernando would ahve stayed had Lewis been his teammate. Once the trust had gone that was it with Mclaren. I do think he could have handled things better or been smarter or mayube tried to oust Lewis.

    I do actually feel very sorry for Fernando. Yes, 07 was his own making to an extent but Mclaren was his dream and it wasn’t quite what he expected and that must have been a huge disappointment after those years of dreaming about that team.

    I think the biggest shame that came out of 07 was the fact that Alonso trundled around in pretty mcuh nothing cars for 2 years. As much as I loved 2008, Alonso should have been in the mix too. Those were completely wasted years for such a great driver. Even if he couldn’t win a title in those hyears just to have him in the mix would have been enough

    #142506
    Avatar of Scribe
    Scribe
    Participant

    well sbl, you ask a complex question, it’s gonna get some complex answers, no use complaining about mills and boonery if you sign off all your posts with your display name, who really looks sillier?

    Also, PM, Lewis was saying this kind a rubbish last year, Ross Brawn claimed Merc wern’t out of the title race before Valencia, an I’ve got to say, Alonso has a better chance than they both had, still it’s probably for his sponsers.

    #142507
    Avatar of Dan Thorn
    Dan Thorn
    Participant

    As another Alonso fan everyone here seems to have summed him up extremely well. The pressure that’s been inflicted on him by himself and others must be huge because of all the mistakes he’s making – Off of the top of my head I can’t think of any major mistakes he made during his championship years, yet this year he’s making several and has cost himself a lot of points with silly things like jump starts, collisions, practice crashes etc. That would be bad enough but the fact he’s also lost a lot of points through bad luck with traffic, reliability and stewards is adding even more pressure on him to compensate.

    It’s entirely reasonable for him to believe he can still win it this year – if he didn’t believe that then the battle would already be over. He wont give up until it’s mathmatically impossible. I think by that stage the pressure will release and he’ll find some consistancy which he can hopefully carry over into 2011.

    #142508
    Avatar of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    whats wrong with signing off with your display name, do this with trip adviser and other forums, no ones ever pointed it out, ok, i,ll stop, but i,ll sign off

    as “the seeker of truth and justice” from now on

    all the best

    #142509
    Avatar of Steph90
    Steph90
    Member

    “Off of the top of my head I can’t think of any major mistakes he made during his championship years”

    There are very few mistakes, his consistency was remarkable esp in 06 under great pressure which I think was epitomised by the 2006 Turkish Grand Prix. 05 I think there was bthe odd mistake, the only real one I remember was in the Canadian 05 when he hit the wall. Mistakes with him were few and far between. Hopefully he’ll ease up on himself soon and find that sort of consistency again.

    Regarding him saying he can still win, well I’d be hugely disappointed if he was willing to throw in the towel now when we’re just over the half way point.

    #142510
    Avatar of Ads21
    Ads21
    Participant

    I still seems wierd that we’re talking about Alonso having problems with consistency, but I agree with pretty much everything Dan and Steph have said. Lets hope he can refind his form soon.

    As for this year its going to need a Raikkonen esque run in to the end of the season, but the problem being that this years Ferrari simply isn’t as quick as the Red Bull. It’s going to be tough but as Murray might say anything can happen in Formula 1…

    oh and Scribe, sorry saying Hamilton would never have gotten the Macca drive in 07 without Alonso was maybe a bit strong. But I still think haivng Alonso it made it much, much easier for Dennis to take the risk of giving a drive to a rookie.

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