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F1 discussion

How did Button end up ahead of Perez in Spain?

This topic contains 31 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of matt90 matt90 1 year, 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)
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  • #133145
    Avatar of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    Does anyone know how Button ended up in front of Perez in Spain? At one point Button was languishing in P17 (according to the commentators) and complaining about not being able to get heat in the tyres. Perez was behind Hamilton in P6 and I’m not sure if he passed him. Then all of a sudden Button ended up in front of Perez.

    Does anyone know what happened that put Jenson in front of Perez? I can only imagine Perez’s surprise when he saw Button in front of him. Where on earth did he come from?:-)

    #236545
    Avatar of Slr
    Slr
    Participant

    Button did 3 stops, Perez did 4. Perez however should have finished ahead, but McLaren told Perez not to pass Button at the end of the race. I don’t really understand why though, Perez was faster, if McLaren didn’t want their drivers to race they should have told Button to let Perez though.

    #236546
    Avatar of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    Thanks, I wasn’t aware of how many stops each had made. Still strange as an extra pit stop took about ~18 seconds based on the commentary. The better rubber should have given Perez enough advantage.

    I do agree – it was very strange to see McLaren issue team orders and that’s exactly what that radio transmission was in case anyone was wondering. It makes no sense because it was over a few immaterial points. The McLaren of yonder would have gladly thrown away a WCC and WDC in order to allow their drivers to compete but now all of a sudden they are issuing orders for 8th and 9th. Hamilton must be scratching his eyes in disbelief. I can see him thinking “What? Now you want to issue team orders? Can we go back in time and win my 2nd and 3rd WDCs please?”

    #236547
    Avatar of Antonio Nartea
    Antonio Nartea
    Participant

    It makes no sense because it was over a few immaterial points.

    It kind of does, if you look at what happened in Bahrain and the big picture that resulted from that clinch. I can see why McLaren chose to issue team orders this time. My guess is that they didn’t want to have to clean up a mess similar to the one in Bahrain again. Their drivers just scratched off the whole issue and made amends. Surely the last thing McLaren need now is an open dispute between their drivers and a similar clash for the second race in a row would have meant just that. I’m not saying they did the right thing. Sure, Whitmarsh should be able to trust his drivers with those cars enough to let them race each other. But I can understand why McLaren chose the conservative way as well. It should be easier to explain Perez why he had to back off this time, than to explain Button how Perez managed to trash him for the second race in a row (and do it with a bang, too)…

    Also, the tyre conservation explanation isn’t that far off either, in this race. Button and Perez racing each other could have translated into massive / almost instant tyre wear for both of them. McLaren might have been genuinely scared of losing those two positions in the points to the fast approaching Ricciardo and Gutierrez.

    I’ve never been a supporter of team orders and I’d rather have them banned completely, but there are situations where, if you look at the big picture, those instructions are not actually such a stupid, repulsive non-sense, afterall. This might have been one of those situations…

    #236548
    Avatar of Michael
    Michael
    Participant

    @Antonio Nartea
    Great points! I checked the deltas between Perez and Ricciardo. At the end of the race Ricciardo was lapped and Perez was 81.7 seconds off Alonso’s time. I guess they could have been afraid of Button falling behind on the “older” rubber especially if he tried to hold off Perez.

    Nonetheless, this only reinforces the problem F1 is facing with the tyres. After all, it may have even forced McLaren to issue team orders to salvage points.

    #236549
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    Somehow, I don’t think that Whitmarsh would have given Button similar team orders if the situations were reversed.

    Nevertheless, this race just shows the hypocrisy of McLaren. They are the first to point the finger to other teams for using team orders, and then blatantly use team orders themselves.

    #236550
    Avatar of bag0
    bag0
    Participant

    They didn’t gave teamorders. Here is the message: ‘We do need to make sure we get to the end of the race, we cannot afford to damage the tyres too much trying to get past Jenson’.

    The team was concerned about the state of the tyres, and in my opinion the message above does not mean do not overtake, but if you want to get past Jenson do it quickly, and above all, save your tyres. Which is a valid point, as Sergio finished off his tyres quite quickly.

    Naturally Perez had to decide what to do, he had two options: stay behind and get points, or try to overtake, and lose ground to a late charging Ricciardo & Gutierrez. Perez made the decision, not the team.

    Sorry for the fb link, but this is really a great pic to strengthen my view :D

    #236551
    Avatar of wsrgo
    wsrgo
    Participant

    Well, Mr Whitmarsh, you can get off that moral high plinth now. Its just sad that the outcry is negligible whenever McLaren issues team orders, and yet the British commentators go gaga whenever Massa looks like outqualifying Alonso. They then begin drooling over the various kinds of scenarios involving Massa moving over for Alonso. Supporting a driver belonging to your country is understandable, but jingoism should never take precedence over professionalism.

    #236552

    Well, Mr Whitmarsh, you can get off that moral high plinth now. Its just sad that the outcry is negligible whenever McLaren issues team orders, and yet the British commentators go gaga whenever Massa looks like outqualifying Alonso. They then begin drooling over the various kinds of scenarios involving Massa moving over for Alonso. Supporting a driver belonging to your country is understandable, but jingoism should never take precedence over professionalism.

    Yes, because British commentators making perfectly valid remarks about team orders involving Ferrari and Massa considering there being a number of high-profile cases of questionable team orders involving Massa in the last few years is tantamount to jingoism.

    #236553
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    I have to say, I agree with @bag0 on this one – not everything is a concealed team order.

    #236554
    Avatar of AdrianMorse
    AdrianMorse
    Participant

    Button drove a good last stint, and Perez, although initially quicker on his fresher tyres, couldn’t get by. The cameras didn’t show too much of their battle, but I don’t think Perez was ever close enough to try a move.

    #236555
    Avatar of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    @bag0
    Same excuse that Red Bull used, and that ended up being bullshit in Malaysia.

    #236556
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    What?

    Red Bull told Vettel to observe a coded order, “Multi-21″. They never said anything about the need for Vettel to preserve his tyres. And even if they did, that does not mean that McLaren told Perez to hold station and tried to make it look like his tyres were going off.

    #236557
    Avatar of RagingInferno
    RagingInferno
    Participant

    Perez ran out of tyres at the end of the race, he mentioned that running in Q3 hurt them in the race so that could be why. Shame for Perez, as I think he was better than Button all weekend and only ended up behind due to trying to qualify even higher.

    #236558
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @magnificent-geoffrey

    Yes, because British commentators making perfectly valid remarks about team orders involving Ferrari and Massa considering there being a number of high-profile cases of questionable team orders involving Massa in the last few years is tantamount to jingoism.

    Look at the Hockenheim 2010 outburst, then look at Hockenheim 2008 where everyone was praising Hamilton for a brilliant drive, even though his teammate moved over too.

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