F1 Fanatic

Agree with slr. I’m not sure he is one of the best 10 drivers today in F1, but he is decent( in my opinion).

This issue annoys me a little bit as I think it’s an unfair question with a not so clear answer.

I personally do think Webber is in the top 5 of drivers on the grid atm and deservidley so belongs up there.

There are several factors that I believe you have to take into account for what may appear to be his “inferior”-to Sebastian Vettel performance.

Firstly, that people say that the RB7 is the fastest car on the grid…I believe it is…but in the hands of Sebastien Vettel. I’ve heard, read reports (at the beginning of the season…unfortunately I wouldn’t know where to look to find them now) and heard first hand from a friend that works for Red Bull F1 that the RB7 was built and developed with Vettels driving style in mind, as they see a lot more longevity in Vettel over than Webber hence investing in him.
Mentally this must be a pretty crushing thing to overcome, to know that your team mate how has had the car designed for him than yourself.
Also bear in mind Webber and Vettel have two completly different styles of driving. Webber is aggressive like Hamilton and Vettel is smooth like Button. Can make a big difference.

Secondly, I believe we’re in a Vettel era and agree with some of the posts above that people will look back and see that Mark actually did pretty damn well to be so competitive with Vettel. It is undeniable that Vettel is on almighty form atm and when a driver is up on the crest of a wave, it can be very hard to bring them back down.
I just think that Mark is up against the best driver in Formula 1 atm and he’s starting to realise he’s not the best.

I work in motorsport and work with drivers, and they honestly convince themselves at any level of motoracing that they are the best driver out there….if doubt starts to come into their mind it can have severe consequences on their performance and ability. They have to believe it to perform at their optimum.

I remember hearing somewhere (please correct me if I’m wrong) that Flavio Briatore appologised to Martin Brundle for getting rid of him from Benetton in the early 90′s, saying that he just never quite realsied at the time how could Michael Schumacher was and that Brundle was a decent driver going up against an amazing team mate.

Thirdly, Mark has really struggle with two fundamental race destroying factors this season;
Tyres
Starts
Ok you could argue that a top 5 driver should be able to overcome these….but I believe if you take these aside Mark is one of the finest drivers out there…I’d say his race craft is certainly in the top 3 on the grid. With these aside he’d be a lot closer to fighting Vettel in the championship.
The tyres I believe he’s starting to get to grips with them (if you excuse the pun), but a driver just doesn’t loose half a second over his team mate over the course of down time between seasons.

Those are the main three deciding factors for what I believe people see his “sub-par” performance comes down to. Honestly I think out of all the teams out there I believe Vettel and Webber are the best pairing.

The negatives to Mark;
Can make mistakes
Poor starts
Still not on top of the tyre management issue
Unlucky (yes I know it’s cliche)
Getting on a bit

Positives;
Gritty, determined racer – can make an epic comeback
Excellent race craft
Has been relatively solid and reliable – consistent points scorer
Has a lot of experience

I think that’s most of what I wanted to say…appologies for the long rant!

To summise…Webbers bl**dy good!

I agree with you collyt; except for one thing. Driving style alone doesn’t detail what they want/need from a car. Balanced for 1 aggressive driver, might not be balanced for another, even if they use the same “level” of aggression. The same can be said for smoothness. Vettel/Webber might have different driving styles; yes, but this doesn’t mean they want different things from a car. Here’s an example I always use.

Kimi is a smooth driver, contrary to what some people think. But he sets his car up for a pointy front end. This way although he is smooth, he can get the nose tucked in quick into a corner.
Hamilton is an aggressive driver, but also sets up for a pointy front end. This way, his style, plus the pointy nose, works together in perfect tune to one another as the car’s pointy front allows him to manhandle the steering the way he does.
Button is smooth, in a way like Kimi, but if the car snaps on the rear, that means he can’t be smooth; as he has to do a correction; which is why he needs his stable rear end.
Alonso back in the Renault days and in his McLaren year was VERY aggressive. He would just send the steering wheel into a corner. BUT; he doesn’t actually set the car with a pointy front. He sets the car up with a stable rear; to enable him to be aggressive with the fronts. Otherwise he’ll just spin out.

My point here is that Webber/Vettel have different styles, yes. But I think they actually have very similar wants/needs to one another, and can adapt quickly to each other’s styles. Reason being, there are a lot of times Mark uses Seb’s setups for qualifying and the race, and vice versa.

Last year I’d have put Kubica in the top 5 with Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and Button.

Without him maybe Rosberg or Webber but it’s hard to really say.

Webber is a brilliant driver, he just needs to recover his mojo, he difinetly desrves to be in the top 5. The most disapponiting driver on the other hand is Massa. He’s poor more than poor. he dosnt’ deserve to represent the tiffosi in that Ferrari.

” and the Ferrari was clearly the better car.”

Apart from its reliability and the fact it was fairly poor in the rain but even on a good day I still thought it was pretty even between both cars.

I would rate Webber, Kubica and Rosberg as midfield – standard drivers who happen to have lucked into fast cars at stages in their careers. I think Sutil, Glock, Perez, Kobayashi, Trulli and Kovalainen are all better than them. Unfortunately people tend to rate drivers based on their machinery.

And what have Webber, Kubica and Rosberg achieved which is particularly impressive? Webber has always been thrashed by Vettel, Kubica had one year beating a poor teammate and everyone thought he was the messiah, and Rosberg is just so anonymous.