Is Alonso outperforming or is Massa underperforming?
22nd September 2011, 21:25 at 9:25 pm #130113
I was looking on the BBC website at some of the stats for the drivers this year – I didn’t realise the difference between Alonso and Massa was so large!
I noted that Massa hadn’t been higher than 5th – remarkable for a Ferrari driver really, and in comparison to Alonso who has had 7 podiums – a huge difference!
So that got me thinking – a lot people are hailing Alonso’s amazingness, “oh, look how much he is out performing his car” etc etc, but I just want to see what people think about Massa’s performance. Is he not getting anything near the best out of the car? Is the Ferrari a lot faster than it actually seems to be?22nd September 2011, 21:55 at 9:55 pm #178907
Personally, as much as I like Massa, I think he’s just not fast enough. It gets tiring, but I’m one of many people who think his ’09 accident is to blame for his lack of pace. Look at how strong he was in 2008… personally, I think he should’ve won the title that year, it may have been his best and probably only chance, the way things are looking now. Of course we’ve seen a major change of car designs after ’08, but Massa has probably gotten the benefit of the doubt for too long now… first the Bridgestone tyres didn’t suit him, now the Pirelli tyres are not his cup of tea… sorry Massa, you’re among the most likable persons in Formula 1 these days, but you don’t belong at Ferrari anymore. Not that I want him to quit all together, I think he could still be a great midfield driver. It’s just that Ferrari can do a whole lot better right now…22nd September 2011, 22:46 at 10:46 pm #178908
I’ve never really rated Massa. He had his one good year, which I think was more of a blip in form than anything. His crash may be a contribution, but I think it’s more about him not being to shine when the field is so competitive and having his spirit broken.
To answer the question, both.23rd September 2011, 1:43 at 1:43 am #178909
I guess both.23rd September 2011, 1:55 at 1:55 am #178910
I think Alonso is extracting the maximum out of the car and just manhandling it. As for Massa, I believe the he is under-performing and only driving at a speed he is comfortable with and without much consistency. Even in previous years I didnt rate him too highly and think his 2008 success was more of a fast car and a one-off rise in form. I think its time for Ferrari and Massa to split, there are so many drivers better than him and one more year is just too much. Give Glock a chance. He has been promising and multiple years of experience is more than other “talents” have to offer.23rd September 2011, 2:40 at 2:40 am #178911
I think it’s probably a little bit of both – although Massa’s bad luck hasn’t helped the points difference.
I guess 7 podiums to 0 is still better than Webber’s situation of his team-mate having 8 wins to 0!
Once again people have forgotten 2007 and 2009 as other very good years for Massa…23rd September 2011, 6:16 at 6:16 am #178912
Both, would be my answer, the latter more than the former.23rd September 2011, 9:29 at 9:29 am #178913
The fact that Alonso is second in the championship in the third quickest car gives you the answer.23rd September 2011, 9:55 at 9:55 am #178914
Both. Massa has been much better this year and the results don’t quite reflect that though. He was in contention for pole at Canada and on for a podium before he crashed out, he out qualified Alo by a second at Spa (I think) and was in the mix at China. He’s also been hurt by poor pit stops and terrible strategies where he has to pit after Alo if he’s behind him on track but Alo can make his tyres last longer while Felipe is just losing time on old rubber, Silverstone would be an example. Massa needs to get better but at the same time I think Alonso is performing absolute heroics in the Ferrari this year (well after China he has been anyway).23rd September 2011, 17:08 at 5:08 pm #178915
I would have to agree with all of you, but @NickV – that was my point. is it the third quickest car, or is that just how its appearing?23rd September 2011, 18:48 at 6:48 pm #178916
I think that Alonso is probably one of the best drivers in the circus today, the 150° Italia is really a bad-designed car and we can obviously see that when he struggles so much to make a good time while Massa is behind there driving with the same times of the other cars (Mercedes, Renault…). That said, Massa since the 2009 Hungarian accident is never been the same.24th September 2011, 9:51 at 9:51 am #178917
I Think Alonso is driving well despite having a slower car than red bull and mclaren24th September 2011, 12:27 at 12:27 pm #178918
In a nutshell – Alonso’s performances since the start of last season puts him amongst the top 2-3 drivers on the grid. Massa performances since last season puts him in the bottom 4-5 drivers on the grid.24th September 2011, 12:55 at 12:55 pm #178919
I think the Ferrari must be the third quickest car when you look at relative quali pace compared to Red Bull and Mclaren – even Alonso struggles to get in front of both Red Bulls and Mclarens when raw pace is everything.24th September 2011, 13:53 at 1:53 pm #178920
I think that Alonso is driving phenomenally and wringing more out of that car than most drivers could.
I think he is making the 150 seem a lot better than it really is, just as he did last year with the F10.
It’s really difficult to determine what level Massa’s driving is on in comparison to the rest of the field with a teammate like Alonso, who is able to extract so much more from a mediocre car.
I suppose we’ll only really know for sure when Ferrari have replaced Massa, which seems to be the most logical thing to do given the gap between him and Alonso.
Massa fared pretty well against Raikkonen, so the guy obviously was quick but after his accident he appears to have lost confidence and speed.
It will be interesting to see if the rumours of Button moving to Ferrari in 2013 bear fruit.
I think that this will be a good move on Ferrari’s part and that Button will provide a greater challenge to Alonso.
Although I think Alonso will retain the upper hand, I predict we’ll see Button beating Alonso quite frequently which will suggest that Massa’s form was indeed not top level post 2009.
Despite all of this I feel that Massa’s form is not nearly as worrying as Mark Webbers of late.
I predict both Massa and Webber being dropped by their respective teams at the end of 2012.
I think that the Ferrari seat will go to either Button or Perez and I’m hoping the Red Bull seat goes to Rosberg, who I believe is on the same level as the big guns, he just needs a good enough car to prove it.
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