F1 Fanatic

Hey Guys,Over the course of this season the Drag Reduction System(DRS) has produced some Positives & Negatives & also Mixed results.

Australia & Spain – Not Enough spectacle in 2 of its early races?

Canada & Spa – Too Easy?

Monaco – No show?

Abu Dhabi(today),China & Monza – Decent showings?

Nothing is perfect in Life so dont expect DRS to give us what we want(excitement & classic racing) but What do you think of DRS in general? Is it really needed in Formula 1? Do People seem to criticise the device a bit too much? Our Voice matters!!! Leave your Responses,maybe rate DRS out of 10.Im also going to put up a topic soon regarding What has produced the Spectacle/Excitement of this season

Cheers & Love you all!!!

DRS is a novel idea terribly implemented. I feel it is against the spirit of competition to give one driver an advantage over another, which is what I feel is happening during the race.

I’m not against active aerodynamics per say, if fact I’d love to see fully variable front and rear wings, if only because I enjoy the technical aspect of the sport the most.

Yes and no, yes because we see much more overtaking manouvres. No because we see that DRS making overtaking ALOT easier…

The Hamilton vs. Schumacher battle at Monza is not a very good example to defend the usage and application of the DRS. The fact the DRS wasn’t effective for Hamilton isn’t cristal-clear like simply “not being too easy”. Schumacher had a monster top speed at that race and Hamilton was simply hitting the rev limiter. You could see him getting close to Schumacher and then just as he hit the rev limiter the Mercedes would pull away a little bit. It wasn’t effective in that particular battle because of the setup characteristics of both cars. If I remember correctly, some overtakes in the midfeid at that race looked pathetically easy.

To me, the whole problem is this “zone” stuff. Why zones? Why limiting it only to one (or two) straight? Why not give drivers, say, 35 opportunities to use it whenever and wherever they want throughout the race? I thnk it would be more natural, giving the defending driver the opportunity to use it too, and it would add an strategic variable – should a driver save his “allocation” or should he go banzai and use it 4 times in a single lap to pull that overtake?

I think it DRS was actually nice in Australia and Monaco. I absolutely hated it in China, Turkey and Canada, and felt that it was pretty stupid today with one zone right after the other.

DRS is a faulty system designed to cover up flaws in the the cars’ and circuits’ designs.

I’m no aerodynamicist, but this is what I’ve heard from elsewhere, as it’s quite widely discussed in F1 circles: a side effect of the cars being aerodynamically set up as they are is that they produce a lot of dirty air, which makes it very difficult for other, faster cars to follow them, catch up and overtake. The positive (for overtaking) slipstreaming effect only begins much closer to the car in front, and the dirty air often prohibits the car behind from reaching it. I can’t come up with the solution, but there are plenty of extremely well-paid and intelligent people in the sport that should be able to, if they were instructed to do so by the governing body.

Then we come to the circuits. It is undeniable that certain circuits are conducive to overtaking, while others are not. Wide corners that allow multiple lines and a clean track that isn’t impossible to drive when off the racing line are two key elements, but the circuit configuration itself is important too. I’m not sure if it’s safety concerns, lack of imagination or a desire to have the best-looking track at the expense of functionality (Abu Dhabi is the perfect example), but modern circuits just don’t seem to produce enough opportunities for overtaking. Then there are street circuits – there Monaco, of course, but recently we’ve gained races at Singapore and Valencia, with another street circuit to come in New Jersey. Add up the horrible new tracks and the street circuits, and there aren’t many others left where overtaking is a regular (and natural) occurrence.

If those two issues could be fixed, there would be no need for DRS at all, and in my opinion, the sport would feel a whole lot less artificial.

Now, onto the current application of it. There seems to be a desire to have two DRS zones in every race, which can lead to motorway-style overtaking, as you described it, Keith, like at Abu Dhabi today. One car passes another with DRS, the second car takes the place back in the next zone. That can’t be right. I’ve actually wondered whether teams will start using it strategically. Let’s imagine Vettel has romped into a big lead and the two McLarens are in second and third, setting practically identical lap times. Their team could tell them to avoid overtaking each other for most of the lap, but allow themselves to be alternately passed using the double DRS zones, thus letting them shave a few tenths off their lap times as they leapfrog their way into a position where they can challenge for the lead. It sounds ridiculous, but is it really so far-fetched?

Then there’s the issue of DRS being available to cars as they lap back-markers, or as they are lapped themselves. A front-runner could gain an advantage by hanging behind a back-marker for a little longer than normal, so they can get the advantage of DRS on the straight. A great duel between two midfield cars could be distorted as one of them gets DRS as they are both lapped. The system isn’t sophisticated enough to tell the difference between cars racing for position and cars who are a lap or more behind. It absolutely should be.

DRS has another seriously damaging effect: it makes it less worthwhile to try to overtake the car in front at any point of the circuit other than the DRS zones. I would love to see overtaking figures for this season and last season, with this season’s stats split into DRS and non-DRS moves. I would be willing to bet all the money I have that the non-DRS moves are lower this year than they were last year. How can that be right? Drivers who use their skill, judgement and bravery to pass a car should be rewarded for it, not immediately re-overtaken by someone who has only had to press a button. In the long term, it will lead to increasingly risk-averse drivers, who will lose some of their racecraft, and the sport will become ever-more dependent on artificial overtaking aids like DRS.

I would love to see it disappear from the sport, but I know it won’t. It’s much easier to have a push-to-pass button than to actually address the problems with the cars and circuits. At the very least, though, the back-marker problem I described should be fixed and there should be only one zone per lap, or drivers who have just been overtaken should not be allowed to use it on the car that overtook them in the very next zone.

With the new tyres I don’t think we need DRS. Yes some races might be more boring, but so what? Boring and static F1 races are nothing new and I think the tyres give us enough fun for the calender to still be exciting, and pure.
But if we were to use DRS I think they should use their imagination.
They shouldn’t use it to make certain corners that are prime overtaking zones in the first place into an overtaking bloodbath, I think they should try to create new overtaking zones. Corners where it usually isn’t possible but with a little straight leading up to it. That would make overtaking with the DRS hard, and possibly allow the duels to last for longer and keep the cars closer. In Melbourne there were only few DRS passes, but it kept the cars neck and neck for several laps and I think that is what DRS should do.

I think its difficult to discuss DRS when comparing what happened in the past vs what happens now in F1. I think it is best to look at other racing series around the world. If you look at DTM, LeMans, and V8 Supercars, and overtaking is exceptionally difficult for every tin top car. This year in F1 we’ve seen so much overtaking which has been attributed to DRS. Ultimately its a fundamental change in the rules to stop a driver with superior equipment getting stuck behind a slower car, and we’re even seeing cars with similar performance overtaking each other which wouldn’t of happened in recent years.

I would like to see blue flag rules changed and rely upon DRS to assist in drivers overtaking back markers.

In my view, DRS is a measure to allow cars to overtake without losing the “sponsorship wings”… Its a win win, in that regard.

Asanator, I did say “if other factors are anything like equal”, and indicate large car superiority, tyre wear and DRS-zone savviness as three factors that re-introduced inequality. As a result not every battle was ever going to result in the effect initiating, especially once some drivers started cottoning on about the importance of DRS-savviness and tyre wear. Examples of the effect happening despite that include (note I have listed each occurence by beneficiary(ies)):

China: Mark Webber and Tonio Liuzzi

Turkey: Vitaly Petrov, Adrian Sutil and Rubens Barrichello

Canada: Nearly the entire midfield that was left standing by this point was affected by this, from positions 6 (Felipe Massa) to 11 (Nico Rosberg). Of these, Massa, Jaime Alguersuari, Rubens Barrichello and Sebastien Buemi benefitted from the effect. The last-lap pass by Button doesn’t count as it was a combination of Sebastian Vettel spinning and DRS helping Jenson Button get to the scene to take advantage (which is not the specific effect Asanator was asking about).

Europe: Vitaly Petrov

Germany: Sebastian Vettel

Belgium: Felipe Massa

Singapore: Felipe Massa

Japan: Pastor Maldonado

Korea: Jaime Alguersuari, Heikki Kovalainen and Kamui Kobayashi

Abu Dhabi: Jenson Button

Total occurences of effect counted by beneficiaries: 18 in 18 races

Races where no incidences of “becomes a question of who is behind and in the zone before the last DRS zone of the race” (8): Australia, Malaysia, Spain, Monaco, Britain, Hungary, Italy, India. Several of these were tracks where the pro-DRS brigade didn’t think the DRS was powerful enough and a couple of others (Monaco, Britain) were subject to unusual circumstances that ended up reducing overtaking at the end of the race in general.

Maybe it’s more noticeable for me because I often focus on the midfield, where serious car superiority is less likely to be a factor than the front of the pack. But an average of once per race is definitely significant. It’s more common than a Vettel victory at the moment, put it that way…

“Serious superiority” for a single-DRS zone race means 0.5 seconds per lap; this is guaged on the basis that it is difficult to get closer than 0.5 seconds to the car ahead in normal running due to the dirty aero effect that DRS was introduced to combat, and getting more than 1 second away by the next DRS zone breaks the battle. For a multi-DRS zone race, it’s more complex; the amount of superiority needed is 0.5 seconds in the longest distance between zones. If two DRS zones are within the same quarter of the lap, for example, then “serious superiority” means 0.67 seconds per lap as there is only 3/4 of a lap to get the advantage back (the zero-sum effect induced by the two DRS zones cancels out the effect the 1/4 lap bounded by their zones).

Statistically, cars are more likely to finish where they started, adjusting for retirements, this year than last. That indicates that a lot of the overtakes that are happening are simply reversals of previous passes, hence “zero-sum” overtaking. I have yet to see any evidence that any car this year has broken away from a battle it wouldn’t have broken away from in 2010, except for cases where a skilful driver might have been able to fend off a potentially-somewhat-faster rival.

In 2010 nobody saw any need to save tyres in qualifying… …because they knew that it was possible to make good progress without resorting to such extremes. Now they do, because they know they’ll be stuck in battles for the same position because of the DRS. The tyres being the most reliable method of breaking off the battle. Allowing tyre changes doesn’t help because the wear the tyres take is such that it’s become a decisive factor. DRS is completely relevant because it takes away the other methods of improving position.

Paul wouldn’t have needed to “let” Sebastien Buemi through in the race in 2010 because there would have been a point in protecting the position. Either he would have successfully defended the position and prevented an overtake, or Sebastien would have passed him once and had done with it. There would have therefore been 0 or 1 overtaking moves total, while this weekend there were 2 per lap from him for several laps, purely because of DRS generating pointless overtakes.