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F1 discussion

Jim Clark – The Greatest of all time ?

This topic contains 43 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jackie jackie 2 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 44 total)
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  • #164724
    Profile photo of jackie
    jackie
    Participant

    Definitely the most talented driver in Formula 1. Having races like Silverstone 1965, Clermont-Ferrand 1965, Monza 1967… he was a just amazing driver!! He had 8 grand slams and that record is fascinating.

    For me Jim Clark in Formula 1 is like Bobby Fischer in Chess. PURE TALENT!

    #164725
    Profile photo of wasiF1
    wasiF1
    Participant

    He is without doubt should get a place on the top 3 all time best F1 drivers alone with Senna & Schumacher,the sad thing we won’t never would have know where both his & Senna career would have ended if not they had their own tragic event.

    #164726
    Profile photo of W-K
    W-K
    Participant

    I read in Autosport magazine that Sir Jackie’s top five drivers are Alberto Ascari, Jim Clark, Alain Prost, Juan Manuel Fangio and Stirling Moss, not necessarily in that order.

    Couple of names missing there that most would probably have included.

    #164727
    Profile photo of James_mc
    James_mc
    Participant

    Yeah I saw that. I suspect the reason for the omission of Schumacher and Senna by Stewart is because of their rather blase attitude to ramming off opposition drivers to accrue titles.

    #164728
    Profile photo of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    was only a wee boy when he died, but can rem seeing him on the telly,
    think he could very well been the best

    #164729
    Profile photo of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    was only a wee boy when he died, but can rem seeing him on the telly,
    think he could very well been the best

    #164730
    Profile photo of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    was only a wee boy when he died, but can rem seeing him on the telly,
    think he could very well been the best

    #164731
    Profile photo of STSCM
    STSCM
    Participant

    Ah, Jim Clark, now you’re talking. I just watched the BBC showing about him, Comcast doesn’t broadcast the BBC over here, I thought it grand the way Dan Gurney (my childhood hero) looked talking about Clark, they so obviously liked each other. Sad. When asked who Clark was most concerned about behind him in a race he said Gurney, Says a lot.
    Jim Clark, 1963, winning 7 out of 10 races, 2nd and 3rd in two others, leading 244 laps out of 247 laps completed, pole for 7 out of the 10 races. Sounds reminiscent of Schumacher, 40 years later.
    Indy, (Gurney paying airfare for Chapman to observe the Indy 500 in 1962 cracks me up), leading 190 out of 200 laps. Unreal.
    Milwaukee, Clark on pole (Gurney 2nd) and both with a track record, led all 200 laps and passed the field up to 2nd place, some loser named A.J. Foyt.

    Say what you will, provide whatever points your wish to provide, Jim Clark was the best driver/racer of a generation, and that generation is still kicking…

    #164732
    Profile photo of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    If I had to do a top 10 it would probably look something like this (Piquet or Andretti could be an alternate at the bottom)

    Clark
    Senna
    Prost
    Schumacher
    Fangio
    Stewart
    Lauda
    Brabham
    Mansell
    Alonso

    Mansell? Really? The guy who was severelly beaten by Keke Rosberg in 1985, and destroyed by Prost in 1990 shouldn’t be up there imo. Piquet deserves a mention!

    About Clark, imo he’s the G.O.A.T, after Schumacher. I could write a whole book about why Schumacher is the greatest.

    I agree with the rest, though

    #164733
    Profile photo of S.J.M
    S.J.M
    Participant

    The thing that seperates Clark to Schumacher is who was around him. Im not denying Schumacher his credit, he won enough titles. But who did he have as competition? He had the best car in a team that was prepeared to use team orders (when legal) to help and with respect to drivers of the time, perhaps only Häkkinen was ever better.

    Compare that to Clark, he too usually had the fastest car on the grid. But back then having a quick car usually meant it to be fragile, which the Lotus duly was. Then look at the grid (usually behind him at the start) Brabham, G.Hill, Surtees and later Stewart and Rindt to name but a few and all remembered as legends (and Champions).

    I have the deepest respect for Senna and Schumacher and can 100% understand why they have the fanbases that they do, but I’ll scream from the rooftops in my support for Clark to be known as the best of the best.

    #164734
    Profile photo of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    But who did he have as competition? He had the best car in a team that was prepeared to use team orders (when legal) to help and with respect to drivers of the time, perhaps only Häkkinen was ever better.

    I’ve always considered that to be a common anti-Schumacher argument, which isn’t valid anyway.

    How is it possible that Schumacher had no competition in the 16 years he was in the sport? How can you prove Brabham, G.Hill, Surtees, Stewart and Rindt were better than Hill, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, and Alonso?
    Here’s the truth: There were a lot of great drivers in Schumachers era who never reached full potential, that was because unlike any other driver, Schumacher was so good, he made his solid competition seem useless.

    About the fastest car, out of the 7 world titles Schumacher won, in how many did he really have the fastest car? In 2002 and 2004, I can admit. But what about the rest? In 1994-95 Williams were every bit as good if not better than Benetton. I highly doubt Ferrari were ahead of either Williams or Mclaren in 2001, and in 2003 Schumacher often had the third or fourth (!) best car, and he still won the title. Heck, you could argue that in 2002 Williams wereon par with Ferrari, in qualifying at least.

    What about 1997 or 1998? Schumacher challenged for the title in a car that was some 1 second slower than the Williams or Mclaren respectivily.

    There’s no way the “best car” or “no competition” excuses are going to work on Schumacher, if you look deeper.

    #164735
    Profile photo of W-K
    W-K
    Participant

    I don’t think Schumacher deserves to be at or near the top of any best F1 drivers list for several reasons. Yes he has talent, and it is probably true that a driver needs to be a bit ruthles to rise above the others around at the same time.
    But Schumacher over stepped those limits too many times, and he also does not seem to learn, because he is still doing it.

    Other reasons for not considering Schumacher, say in comparison to Jim Clark, in most cases Schumacher has had to have a car (and tyres) built and adjusted for him. Jim Clarks record, which includes several different motor sports, shows he could probably get into any car and beat anybody in the same machinery.

    Schumacher probably also had quite a bit of assistance from Ferrari International Assistance (FIA) when at least a third of the 29 members had, or at one time had, Ferrari connections.

    So Schumacher is not going to be in my top 5 drivers list, and to be quite honest probably will struggle to make it into my top ten.

    And as I said earlier, because I am of that age, Jim Clark was probably the best F1 driver I have seen.

    #164736
    Profile photo of Klon
    Klon
    Participant

    I for my part consider only two drivers (I can’t say enough about Fangio, but if I could he would most likely be the third) in competition for GOAT – and, oh horror, Clark is not one of them.

    For me, the currently Greatest Of All Time-contenders are Alain Prost and Michael Schumacher. This is because, to use an inadequate exaggeration, anyone can be fast really. But Prost and Schumacher both showed the brain to use their speed to the fullest and that is worth much more respect than it actually gets. In that case, the numbers do not lie: Schumacher and Prost are #1 and #2 in races won and #1 and #3 in total world championships. And really, Prost should have had five world championships anyhow.

    #164737
    Profile photo of David-A
    David-A
    Participant

    Other reasons for not considering Schumacher, say in comparison to Jim Clark, in most cases Schumacher has had to have a car (and tyres) built and adjusted for him. Jim Clarks record, which includes several different motor sports, shows he could probably get into any car and beat anybody in the same machinery.

    That’s the way F1 is at the moment. No one is able to consistently win in poor machinery. Alonso in his second stint in the Renault, Senna in the Lotus and last 2 years at Mclaren. Schumacher’s record is still impressive, considering that he was fighting superior Williams and/or Mclarens during his time at Benetton and first 5 years at Ferrari. His role in helping Ferrari out of the doldrums and experience 5 world titles absolutely secures his place in my top three, with Prost and Senna.

    I can’t take people who bang on about “Ferrari International Asssistance”seriously, so I’m not bothering to address that.

    #164738
    Profile photo of Todfod
    Todfod
    Participant

    Ascari, Clark, Fangio, Lauda, Prost, Senna… all legends.

    I gotta agree with W-K with his analysis of Schumacher. While he was talented and fast, he had way too many things working in his favour to make sure he sealed all those titles. Plus his dirty tactics were a tad too much.

    Obviously this is just the opinion of a few, most would disagree.

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