Group Admins

  • Profile picture of Keith Collantine

Group Mods

  • Profile picture of damonsmedley
  • Profile picture of Bradley Downton

F1

Public Group active 11 hours, 37 minutes ago

F1 discussion

Mercedes engines have 100 BHP advantage over Renault

This topic contains 14 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of alexward alexward 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #134172
    Avatar of mclaren
    mclaren
    Participant

    A while ago, there was this rumour flying around, it seems this wasn’t as wide of the mark as first anticipated.

    Rob White confrimed to Ted Kravitz during the first test, that their engine power output was 600bhp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtenemHPJM

    Meanwhile, Mercedes engine chief Andy Cowell admitted their turbo engines are able to deliver around 700 bhp – without ERS

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/mercedes-motorenchef-andy-cowell-exklusiv-drei-mal-so-viele-teile-wie-frueher-8032979.html

    #248570
    Avatar of Lucas Wilson
    Lucas Wilson
    Participant

    I don’t think that would be the case that the Merc engines have 100 bhp power advantage.

    #248571
    Avatar of Steven
    Steven
    Participant

    If such a gap exists, I’d be very surprised if much of it wasn’t closed by the time the season starts.

    It’s unfortunate for Renault since they were already dealing with reliability issues; imagine having to try and continue engine development when the base you’re dealing with isn’t stable to begin with anyway. I wanted Vettel to deal with some difficulty and adversity this season, but not like this.

    I’ll remain optimistic and hope they can pull it together for early in the season. A few races on the backfoot may not hurt them too much in the end, since the end has double points…

    #248572
    Avatar of Todfod
    Todfod
    Participant

    I dont remember Mercedes claiming their engine generated 700bhp… at least I hope not. A 100 bhp is a massive difference in performance. Big enough for the Mercedes powered cars to be at the front followed by either the Renault or Ferrari engined cars

    #248573
    Avatar of Mads
    Mads
    Participant

    I simply don’t see where 100HP should come from. With the limits on fuel consumption, the Mercedes engine would have to be a whopping 16.6 percent more fuel efficient then the Renault. With so strict regulations, I simply cannot see that happening.

    #248574
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    So the thread I created back in September 2013 wasn’t total BS after all? ;-)

    From what I have heard though, the 100 bph power advantage Mercedes have is over Renault, Ferrari are appearantly closer to Merc in power output, and have the best cooling system of any team (means better reliability).

    #248575
    Avatar of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    I don’t really believe that, unless the figures are quoted as what power outputs the engines were running at maximum during the Jerez test. In which case that is entirely believable, since the Renault kept setting fire to itself!

    #248576
    Avatar of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    700bhp would be an amazing figure from such a small engine though (which bearing in mind has to contend with much less fuel and much more distance than an 80′s engine). Add ERS to that and you are swiftly approaching 900bhp…

    #248578
    Avatar of Todfod
    Todfod
    Participant

    Well… so it is true.

    Mercedes engines produce a 690bhp + an additional 150 bhp from ERS
    Renault (according to the Taffin interview) produce 600bhp + 160bhp from ERS

    Ferrari are the big question mark. But if I had to guess, they would be marginally better than Renault in terms of performance. The only positive of the Ferrari engine is their cooling I guess.. which could lead to smaller sidepods and less aero drag.

    I have a bad feeling that this season is going to be a Mclaren vs Mercedes battle. Let’s hope I’m wrong

    #248579
    Avatar of Lucas Wilson
    Lucas Wilson
    Participant

    “I have a bad feeling that this season is going to be a Mclaren vs Mercedes battle. Let’s hope I’m wrong”

    What wrong with that? I’d quite like to see that battle :-)

    #248580
    Avatar of Tony Vandervell
    Tony Vandervell
    Participant

    Let’s hope Ferrari can be in there as well. Speaking of which:

    “Reports in Italy say (Ferrari) engine designer Luca Marmorini has devised a unique system that stops the flow of fuel when the driver is not accelerating, improving not only fuel consumption but also the effect of engine-braking.”

    From: http://grandprix247.com/2014/02/07/ferrari-have-technical-tricks-up-their-sleeve-which-may-surprise-mercedes/

    #248581
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    I really hope it comes down to reliability and that Alonso and Raikkonen have a titanic WDC battle, off the back of a smart Ferrari engine. But Ferrari could push Alonso to be number 1 driver (they pay him $20m, Kimi $10m). Mercedes could have a lot of poles, possibly for Hamilton, but I don’t want them to win after vetoing the weight limit increase (which is ironic now that their car is overweight). They can have 2015 instead, probably for Hamilton.. defeating Button in a powerful McLaren-Honda would be tasty.

    I’m not surprised that the engines are more powerful than predicted.. did people forget that this is F1 engineering? In no time (before the engine freeze) they’ll be back up on power and back down to old lap times!

    #248582
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    @todfod

    Ferrari are the big question mark. But if I had to guess, they would be marginally better than Renault in terms of performance. The only positive of the Ferrari engine is their cooling I guess.. which could lead to smaller sidepods and less aero drag.

    In terms of power output, I believe that Ferrari will be somewhere in the middle. My guess would be the Ferrari V6 producing around 650 bhp (excluding ERS).

    Ted Kravitz on his notebook stated that the general consensus in the paddock is that Ferrari has the best solutions for cooling, he said something like “Their radiators are practically the same size as last year which is amazing given the extra cooling requirements this year”.

    #248583
    Avatar of MazdaChris
    MazdaChris
    Participant

    On the basis of the first test, you’d have to say it looked like the power delivery of the Mercedes was working a lot better than the Ferrari, even if the ultimate power didn’t seem any different.

    But I can guarantee that none of the engines were running at their potential output during the first test anyway, so the speeds you saw there were basically meaningless. All of the manufacturers will be coy about what the engines are putting out, so when a Renault guy says that the engine is capable of 600bhp, it’s not going to be a realistic appraisal of what their particular engine is capable of. It may be more, it may be less, he’s just quoted the ‘official’ figure. We can maybe be more confident of the figure quoted for the Mercedes engine, and at the very least we can extrapolate that the engine is more powerful than predicted and the cars will be quite a bit more powerful than the V8s. But how the three engine manufacturers stack up against each other is pretty much anyone’s guess until we see the cars driven at anything approaching their potential.

    #248584
    Avatar of alexward
    alexward
    Participant

    Truth is that this year the max power generated is not at all critical, and will even be a disadvantage if they have optimised the design for maximum power. Economy is the critical factor. It may be possible to build an engine under the regulations that produces 800hp with no regard to economy, but this would be a dud race engine because with the fuel limit you would use that power for much less than 100% of the race, whereas an economical engine, may be running at a lower power, but at a high level for a greater percentage of the race. Renault may have optimised their engine best to harness the given fuel, whoever does this best will have an advantage over the season, not the one with the most power. This has happened before in F1 when the Repco V8 was economical and gutless, it out performed the thirsty powerful engines.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.