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F1

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F1 discussion

More races in Europe necessary

This topic contains 17 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of wasiF1 wasiF1 4 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #128246

    Dear readers,

    In the 2010 season only eight F1-races are held in Europe. Shouldn’t at least 12 races be organized in Europe, and perhaps eight outside of it? After all, F1 originated in Europe and by far most of the drivers and fans are European. Yet the sports is brought further and further away from us… pushing at least some into the hands of home-grown series such as DTM. Right now, I think perceived commercial interests and mr. Ecclestone’s personal relationship with the rich and famous of the globe seem to determine where we race. I mean, two races in the United Arab Emirates, tiny and populated mostly by desperately poor cricket-addicted workers from places like Pakistan, the Philippines and India, versus one race in England? A race in Turkey despite the fact the nation hardly produced any good drivers?

    It seems to me that there’s little logic in how the tracks are chosen. Not too long ago we were racing in both Singapore and Malaysia (so close!), as if that region is some key area for F1. How about two races in all real key F1-nations: Germany, the UK, France and Italy. Add races in Belgium, Spain, Russia and Hungary and I think F1 could gain lost ground again in Europe. I would also argue that very large F1-loving nations Brazil and Japan deserve a second race more than Turkey or the UAE deserve a single race…. even from a commercial point of view I see little in investing in UAE or Turkey.

    Btw, I believe visiting races should be made a hell of a lot cheaper too. For one F1-ticket you can go to 5 racing events in the US or Japan (Super GT and/or Formula Nippon). And those series allow fans to get closer to the cars, racequeens and teams as well. You feel more like you’re part of the experience… Merchandize is expensive too and Ecclestone’s greed made that for many years there wasn’t even a F1 videogame. For journalists the F1 events are also made notoriously expensive. Some TV-stations from Holland and Taiwan aleady decided not to send reporters to all races.

    Kind regards,

    Mr. Bronstein

    #148510
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    How can Formula 1 be a World Championship if it is confined to Europe? 2011 might be the first time in sixty years that non-European races out-number the European rounds, but we’re not losing any of the European races. I would much rather the sport push out to circuits like Interlagos, Albert Park, Sepang, Suzuka and (I think it is safe to say) Korea than to stay in Europe and trundle around the likes of Magny-Cours and Estoril.

    #148511
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    PM, how many times has the World Cup been held in Europe? How many times have the Olympics been out of Europe, the USA, or Russia?

    It’s not the world championship because of where it’s held, but who competes, and F1 has always had diversity on that front. I don’t think F1 has to be mostly in Europe, but equally it doesn’t have to be everywhere – it’s just nice for the fans when it comes to their country and for us that there’s an extra race.

    #148512
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    “It’s not the world championship because of where it’s held, but who competes, and F1 has always had diversity on that front”

    If F1 doesn’t expand then it’ll be harder for new talents to emerge to countries that have no racing heritage.

    Europe is at the very centre of F1. It has loads of races. Despite all the venues in the east etc. we have (had) Valencia, Turkey, Rome and various others trying to add to the calendar. F1 isn’t really expanding out of Europe the calendar is just expanding.

    We need to not just be focussed on Europe or where F1 has a history or the sport will miss out on vital markets. It needs growth.

    Not only that but the competitiors are mainly just from Europe. There’s a million Germans on the grid, there was a few Spaniards and two Brits who are from the ‘heart’ of motorsport land. It’s still very much Europe based.

    Also, look at the teams. Every single team is based in Europe and quite a handful in Britain because it makes sense. If F1 really was expanding so quickly then a team based in America or wherever might actually survive but right now it’s impossible because Europe is so dominant on the calendar and the costs would be huge.

    F1 doesn’t need Europe but it’s a perfect base but it does need variety if it really is going to be a successful global sport.

    The biggest problem is working out where the races away from Europe should be held. I don’t think it’s as well balanced as it could be and the numbers are going to have to stop rising soon.

    #148513
    Profile photo of damonsmedley
    damonsmedley
    Participant

    2011 might be the first time in sixty years that non-European races out-number the European rounds, but we’re not losing any of the European races.

    Exactly – and Europe is a continent – there isn’t another continent with more races than Europe so I don’t see your point. When there are 11 races in Asia and 5 in Europe, this thread might make a bit more sense. But I like the calendar how it is.

    #148514
    Profile photo of Alexi
    Alexi
    Participant

    I kind of agree with the original poster. It saddens me to see races being made in the likes of India or China or the UAE. There is any real drivers coming from these places? Nah. Any car manufacturers to be interested on joining the grid? Nope.

    Races need to be held where they should be held, if you get what I’m saying. Like 16 traditional races and 4 for the countries willing to pay the most for it.

    #148515
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    “Like 16 traditional races and 4 for the countries willing to pay the most for it. “

    I don’t even think we have 16 traditional races. I don’t get this argument for tradition. Spain didn’t even care about F1 much until Alonso came along and then it took off and possibly the same with Russia.

    The traditional venues werem’t traditional when they started. A lot of work went into them and I bet in their day they were complained about (sure Canada was) but we’ve grown to love them. F1 is all about moving forward if it wasn’t then it wouldn’t even exist.

    #148516
    Profile photo of Hare
    Hare
    Participant

    The race tracks are key to F1, because

    a) that country is paying for them, hence F1 makes money,

    b) it advertises that country to the world of F1 as F1 is the world largest event outside of the Olympics / World Cup / Commonwealth games and is annual, and

    c) you need to go somewhere, to take F1 there. It doesn’t just come to you and

    4) F1 wants to expand, this is the way to do it.

    I don’t disagree with you, but in the real world, bernie’s gonna make an empire out of it, and I don’t mind what he’s doing. I love the modern spectacle of Singapore, and the contrasting sands of the Arab hosts, the classics of Spa, Monaco, Silverstone etc. If F1 goes to another part of the world I’ve never heard of, it’s introduced me to a richer textured world. Thats good for me, good for them. Good for F1 – the spectacle… Long may it continue.

    #148517

    Well, thanks for the reply…

    Some of you suggest that I, if I were mr. Ecclestone, would turn F1 into a European competition. This is far from the case. Japan, Australia and Brazil have established themselves well as F1 countries in my view. The three nations have deep-rooted racing cultures and produced a number of high-quality drivers. No need to be confined to Europe with venues such as Interlagos, Suzuka and Albert Park. Also, I am definately not against pushing bounderies. China makes business-sense. Korea, a market of 48,5 million consumers and close to F1-crazy Japan, the Russian Far East and Northeast China, makes sense and the Singapore race can serve Southeast-Asia. And racing in the USA is good for prestige….

    But how about two (!!!) races in the UAE sandbox? C’mon there’s only about 4,5 million people living there, 85 percent of them impoverished guest-workers from countries where owning a car is rare… And nobody can seriously argue the region (Iraq, Iran) makes for much of a market. Sure the sheikhs of the UAE must have paid a nice price with their oil-dollars but wouldn’t the stands of Donington Park, Hockenheim or Imola be more crowded, and crowded with people who actually care (fans, not rich folk on a weekend trip to the UAE)? Isn’t investing in those fans real long-term planning, as opposed to short-term profit-taking in the Middle-East?

    And what’s up with a race in both Singapore and Malaysia? Essentially that’s 2 races in an entity in population smaller than Spain and again without any racing culture (I still try to forget about Alex Yoong) . Isn’t 1 race for that area enough? Europe is an entity of about half a billion ppl. The IRL is organizing 15 races in North America (with a population smaller than that of Europe), 1 race in Japan and 1 in Brazil. Now that’s too few races across the globe, but I think F1 is overdoing it. And I am saying that as a European who travels across the globe several times a year with a huge smile.

    Just to remind you folks: of the 26 drivers in action this year 19 are European, 2 Japanese, 1 Australian and 3 Brazilian. The only wild goose here is an Indian who btw wasn’t very good. And which of the teams has a factory/team outside of Europe? Even our Indian team is actually, if you look at it’s members, a British team paid for by a rich Indian who needed a hobby.

    All I argue for is maybe a race or two extra in the European heartland of the F1-world, and a little less in places that pay but do not love the sports.

    Kind regards,

    Johannes

    #148518
    Profile photo of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    you know what, once you are in the “hospitality” area, you could be anywhere!

    #148519
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    But how about two (!!!) races in the UAE sandbox?

    Bahrain is not in the UAE. It’s an entirely separate nation.

    And what’s up with a race in both Singapore and Malaysia?

    Again, two separate countries. Belgium and Germany are very close together (especially when the German Grand Prix is at the Nurburgring – they’re actually closer together than Singapore and Malaysia) and servicing the same market, but I don’t see you complaining about that.

    All I argue for is maybe a race or two extra in the European heartland of the F1-world, and a little less in places that pay but do not love the sports.

    You’re missing the point of the expansion. Formula 1 visits more global markets, and establishes itself there for years to come. Eventually, those countries will develop their own “racing culture” (I absolutely hate this term) and the sport will be much bigger there. But you need to give it tim – Bernie is playing the long game.

    Besides, simple economics dictates that the races will always go to whoever pays the most. Even if you had a race every weekend, there’s only a set number of calendar spots available. A limited supply equals a greater demand. Increase demand pushes the price up.

    #148520
    Profile photo of Fer no.65
    Fer no.65
    Participant

    Don’t agree with the original post. USA, Brazil, Canada, Japan, Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Mexico. They were all popular venues, and they are outside Europe.

    The matter here is not getting more races to Europe. It’s getting more races at countries with big motorsport tradition.

    But as PM says, it’s all about getting things even. You cannot get more races with “motorsport tradition” if you don’t go to those odd places where they know nothing about F1. Eventually, people will get interested in it, and so on.

    #148521
    Profile photo of electrolite
    electrolite
    Participant

    I think this view is because a lot of great, soulful tracks are in Europe, it is where F1 originated so a lot of heritage is there. Whereas some of the newer and arguably less gripping tracks happen to be in the East – Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, China and Malaysia spring to mind. I think Interlagos, Suzuka, Melbourne are brilliant and the newer Korea, Istanbul, and hopefully India are proving F1 can expand throughout the world in this day and age and be interesting however, so being a European myself I don’t have that much of a problem.

    #148522

    Prisoner,

    You’re correct about Bahrain, my sincere apologies. So, ok, it’s another tiny state with about 700 or 800.000 people in the Gulf. About Malaysia/Singapore: I know very well they are seperate nations, actually until the early 1960s they were still one nation. I think racing in both Singapore and Malaysia (what’s that, 35 million people in total?) is too much. Germany supplies 5 or 6 drivers, two car brands and gets 1 lousy track… and racing in UAE and Bayrain is definately too much (5,2/5,3 million).

    You say Bernie is playing the long game. But neglecting to some extent half a billion Europeans so some sheikhs can have a chill party doesn’t sound like long-term development of F1 to me. I understand that limiting supply pushes the price up, but there’s always a breaking-point when people lose interest and decide to trade overpriced champagne for lager. Also, you don’t always HAVE to push the price up per se, do you? I feel the American racing leagues care more about serving the main market well first.

    Anyway, if you feel developing the apparently promising racing markets of Abu Dhabi and Bahrain is very useful, and makes more sense than perhaps another race in England or Germany, I’m happy for you things are going that way more and more.

    Kind regards,

    Johannes

    #148523
    Profile photo of Hairs
    Hairs
    Participant

    The main problem with the calender is that it makes no sense from a travel point of view. Having a load of flyaway races would be fine if they were held in obvious “Turkey – Middle east – India – Malaysia – Singapore – Australia – China – Korea – Japan – USA – Brazil” order

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