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Red Bull Must Now Support Webber

This topic contains 45 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of plushpile plushpile 3 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 46 total)
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  • #128266
    Profile photo of nik
    nik
    Member

    I might be biased as a Webber fan, but I believe that RB must get behind him now “for the championship”.

    Vettel is 25 points behind Alonso, while Webber is only 11 – with two races to go. Brasil strongly favors Webber.

    In the constructors, RB is now only 27 points ahead of McLaren. They are lucky that Button had a poor weekend, or they could have ended up with a much slender lead.

    Webber must win Brasil, and Vettel has to be there to back him up and take points away from Alonso. There is too great a difference in points between finishing first and second for Red Bull to risk Vettel taking those 7 points (between 1st and 2nd) away from Webber.

    If Alonso wins either of the two remaining races, he has pretty much taken the title. Webber would need to finish second to Alonso winning, and then win the last race with Alonso DNF’ing to take the title. If he finishes second and Alonso DNF’s, they would be tie on points (with Alonso winning).

    Webber must win, Alonso must not win, and Webber absolutely must, at the least, finish ahead of Alonso in the two remaining races (and finish on the podium). Vettel must also assist to get Alonso as far down the field as possible. For eg. if it is Webber 2nd Alonso 3rd for the remaining races, Alonso wins.

    Vettel would depend on other drivers not finishing races and not winning to have a shot at the title, so I think it is important for RB to get him helping Webber and taking positions/points away from Alonso (if they finish WEB -> VET -> ALO for the last 2 races, regardless of in which positions or gaps between them, WEB takes the title)

    This is so close but it is agonizing, no matter how I run the numbers, outside of WEB winning the last two races, his title depends on VET finishing between him and ALO. Argh!

    #148745
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    They should only get behind him in terms of switching their drivers, if Webber is following Vettel and either behind Alonso or just ahead of him. Imagine giving Webber full technical support and then he crashes in the race.

    #148746
    Profile photo of NickTheGeek
    NickTheGeek
    Member

    Its my understanding that it is still pretty open between the two Redbull drivers and Alonso.

    Should Webber win both races and Alonso came home second Webber would win the title.

    Equally if something happened to Alonso in Brazil and he DNF’d Vettle would be right up there.

    I would go as far as to say lets let Brazil happen and go from there. Having said that If I were redbull and we were towards the end of Brazil with Alonso in a string position I would have to play the switcharoo card.

    #148747
    Profile photo of electrolite
    electrolite
    Participant

    Absolutely. Red Bull can’t go 2 seasons where, for the most part, they’ve been the quickest car and not actually win anything. At the very least get the WDC for Webber.

    #148748
    Profile photo of VettelS
    VettelS
    Member

    People had been saying Red Bull should have been favouring Webber over Vettel for ages now, and today is the first time I actually agree.

    If Alonso wasn’t so close, I’d say let Vettel and Webber race. But Vettel is 14 points behind Webber and just two races to go.

    I still think Webber is more likely to win than Alonso, but it’ll be close. And for that reason, I think Vettel should be helping Webber.

    I think Red Bull should be marginally better than Ferrari at the next two races, and if Webber and Vettel can finish in front of Alonso at both of them, it should be Webber’s Championship.

    #148749
    Profile photo of VettelS
    VettelS
    Member

    Here’s something else. Imagine this scenario:

    Vettel wins Brazil, Webber manages second and Alonso is disappointed after finishing third. Then in Abu Dhabi Webber is out-paced again by his team mate and Alonso can only get third. In this scenario Alonso would still win the Championship, but by only 5 points. For Webber to win, he would need to finish ahead of Vettel at least once.

    #148750
    Profile photo of Fer no.65
    Fer no.65
    Participant

    Totally. The risk of loosing the championship with Webber is greater than the chances of winning it with Vettel.

    I’ve never agreed with this until now, really. It’s been really open between the two, but now, Vettel is too far away from both Webber and Alonso.

    Chris Horner should start thinking now. If Vettel is 1st, Webber 2nd and Alonso 3rd at Interlagos, Vettel should let Mark by. Otherwise, the Red Bull owener will be quite pissed off

    #148751
    Profile photo of VettelS
    VettelS
    Member

    Something else, more of a personal opinion, that I’ll add.

    Obviously favouring Webber over Vettel is more likely to result in a Championship win, but I’ve been extremely impressed with how impartial they’ve been all season. Even that hoo-ha with the front wing was totally justified. The team has been pressurised by fans and the media to pick their favourite driver, and no doubt from inside as well.

    I wouldn’t surprised at all if the team refuses to favour a driver. I’m not sure that it’d be the right thing to do, but I wouldn’t hold it against them.

    #148752
    Profile photo of TommyB
    TommyB
    Participant

    I might be biased as a Webber fan…


    Webber himself said he didn’t want to be gifted the title. I think it is probably the right thing to do if they want one of their drivers to win the title. But who’s to say Webber won’t crash again.

    #148753
    Profile photo of VettelS
    VettelS
    Member

    Webber himself said he didn’t want to be gifted the title. I think it is probably the right thing to do if they want one of their drivers to win the title. But who’s to say Webber won’t crash again.

    I think that’s a really admirable thing for Webber to say. I’m not sure I could say the same thing if I were in his position, but nevertheless. As for Webber crashing- if he gets another DNF, Alonso is handed his third title on a plate. If Alonso has a DNF as well, Vettel still has to get through Hamilton.

    #148754
    Profile photo of nik
    nik
    Member

    “Vettel wins Brazil, Webber manages second and Alonso is disappointed after finishing third. Then in Abu Dhabi Webber is out-paced again by his team mate and Alonso can only get third. In this scenario Alonso would still win the Championship, but by only 5 points. For Webber to win, he would need to finish ahead of Vettel at least once.”

    Totally! It wasn’t until I ran the permutations in a spreadsheet that I realized that there is no other way – Webber *must* finish ahead of Vettel in the remaining two races otherwise Alonso will win the title.

    I am not one for team orders or even favoring a driver either, but there really is no option for Red Bull in this case if you look at the numbers. If Red Bull qualify 1-2 again in Brasil with Vettel ahead, it will be one hell of a predicament (and I can see it happening…). They will need to be very cautious around each other into turn one, and there is no way that RB can let Vettel win ahead of Webber in Brasil, just no way ..

    #148755
    Profile photo of VettelS
    VettelS
    Member

    I am not one for team orders or even favoring a driver either, but there really is no option for Red Bull in this case if you look at the numbers. If Red Bull qualify 1-2 again in Brasil with Vettel ahead, it will be one hell of a predicament (and I can see it happening…). They will need to be very cautious around each other into turn one, and there is no way that RB can let Vettel win ahead of Webber in Brasil, just no way ..

    Exactly. Like you said, there’s a very real chance of Vettel getting pole and Webber lining up next to him in Brazil. And if the race end like that, Alonso almost certainly wins the Championship. Vettel on pole at either of the next two races could potentially cause the team more of a headache than Korea.

    Vettel could lose Webber the Championship, but I don’t think he will. Even if the team refuses to order Vettel to get out of the way, I think Vettel will have the decency to get out of the way himself.

    #148756
    Profile photo of Fer no.65
    Fer no.65
    Participant

    “I think Vettel will have the decency to get out of the way himself.”

    not sure…

    #148757
    Profile photo of Guilherme
    Guilherme
    Member

    Well, you guys are assuming that Alonso will certainly finished at least 3rd. While his consistency has been nothing short of impressive since Germany, we can’t say for sure that he will have a good race at Interlagos.

    The question I’m asking myself right now is, should Alonso retire in Brazil while Vettel is leading with Webber second, would they switch positions?

    #148758
    Profile photo of VettelS
    VettelS
    Member

    The question I’m asking myself right now is, should Alonso retire in Brazil while Vettel is leading with Webber second, would they switch positions?

    Okay, if Alonso retires at Brazil with Vettel in the lead and Webber in second, and the race finished like that, that would leave Webber on 238 and Alonso equal with Vettel on 231. If subsequently at Abu Dhabi Webber has a DNF, Vettel is Red Bull’s only chance at the WDC.

    But if at Brazil Red Bull switch their drivers and Webber wins with Vettel second, Webber would be on 245, Vettel on 224 and Alonso on 231. If at Abu Dhabi Webber has a DNF and Vettel wins, he still gets the WDC. Why? Because if Vettel won and Alonso came second, both would be on 249, but Alonso would win because he has more race wins (4 vs 5).

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