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Red Bull Racing most dominating team ever, over last three years? (31 posts)

Topic tags: dominance, Red Bull

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RBAlonso said 6 months ago:

@david-a Certainly but no one has been dominant over the whole campaign.

@mnmracer so if a car was on pole in every race and won every race that wouldn’t be dominant. Domination like we saw in the 90′s will never happen again. It was as all F1 teams were completing the transition to be permanent, professional racing teams. We will never see 2 cars 2 seconds above the field every lap again. The very view of dominance has changed, to being about winning on different circuit types not by how long.

Yes McLaren are quick, but you can’t win 34 wins from 3 and a half seasons which have have 6 teams win and not be dominant. Your argument about mclarens domination is only possible if you accept that in 2011 RB were dominant.

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mnmracer said 6 months ago:

@rbalonso
For any car to lay claim to be dominant, it first needs to be the fastest car, regardless of gap. The Red Bull was not fastest for the majority of this season, so in no way can it be dominant.

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RBAlonso said 6 months ago:

@mnmracer yes but this thread describes red bull over 3 years of which they have already earned 5 of the 6 titles available and are leading by a handsome margin in the other. You can’t have the accolades that RB have without being dominant or the best team for the majority of the races.

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Michael said 6 months ago:

@RBAlonso

You can’t have the accolades that RB have without being dominant or the best team for the majority of the races.

Be careful, you’re making a lot of sense! We can’t have that:-)

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mnmracer said 6 months ago:

@RBAlonso
That’s like saying Williams was dominant from 1996-1998, because with their 96-97 stats carried over, they are dominant over a 3-year period. It doesn’t work that way.

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RBAlonso said 6 months ago:

@mnmracer. That’s rubbish as Williams didn’t win a race in 1998 when RB are constructors champions. There is no comparison here. I understand that as a Vettel fan you are riled by people saying the car is the key factor for his success. But denying that the car is dominant in this phase of the season when it has won more races and poles than any other team is not the truth. They would not be constructors champions with a race in hand if they were not competitive. Once again this is over 3 years where they have swept all before them. This season they are as better than anyone else, last season they were undisputably dominant and the season before that they were unbelievably domiant (by your measure) in the races they finished.

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mnmracer said 6 months ago:

@rbalonso
You do all this talking, but you fail to provide even one fact, or one mention of what actually happened. I’ll make it very simple for you, answer this question:

If the Red Bull has only been the fastest car for less than half the races that the McLaren was THIS year, how is it dominant THIS YEAR?

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RBAlonso said 6 months ago:

@mnmracer Its not about this year! You ask me for facts but provide no performance deviation information to the mclaren. I have mentioned that RB have won the most races this year. Most poles. Most concecutive laps led. You can not argue that Mclaren have been the team to beat in every race because during the middle of the season that was not the case. They have been competitive at the start and end but that does not mean overall. Since DDRS has came in the game has changed and RB are the team to beat. In India as well as texas, they led every practice session took pole. In the early season there were 6 teams winning races but when the music stopped, Vettel has been near untouchable. Hamilton has rivalled him in terms of race pace but not in terms of poles, session victories and overall race wins.

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magon4 said 6 months ago:

Well boys, cool your jets.
I actually looked into qualifying speed (not race speed) over the last 3 seasons, and here are the conclusions:
2010 was the most “dominant” year of RBR, in terms of average qualifying times.
2011 RBR was not at all dominant, as Webber, Hamilton and Button had very very similar times, in races and in qualifying. There, clearly Vettel made the difference; in 2010 he basically had to win with that car, I agree (although he was young and inexperienced), but in 2011, it was his merit.
2012 McLaren has had the best car, and Lewis Hamilton should have had a very good go at the title.

The 2012 title is not a result of dominance, it is the result of a team having better strategy and less mistakes.

For me, a Vettel fan, I view him in the Top 3, slightly ahead of Hamilton and slightly behind Alonso. But whoever wins the title will have deserved it.

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Kingshark said 6 months ago:

If the Red Bull has only been the fastest car for less than half the races that the McLaren was THIS year, how is it dominant THIS YEAR?

Because Red Bull have had a fairly reliable car and very consistent team. Vettel has made more mistakes than either Alonso or Hamilton, and has had less bad luck than Hamilton. The reason to why he is leading the championship, is because when you factor in all speed, consistency, reliability and team mistakes – Red Bull has undoubtedly the place to be at this season. Everything is laid out perfectly for Vettel. Red Bull have been as quick as Mclaren yet as consistent as Ferrari; he has had the best of both worlds this season. The fact that Alonso can still possibly beat him this year shows just how good Fred has driven.

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Kingshark said 6 months ago:

This is my perception on who has had the best car this season, based on mostly race pace, but also a bit on qualifying pace, as both are indeed relevant.

Australia
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Lotus

Malaysia
1.) Sauber
2.) Ferrari
3.) Mclaren

China
1.) Mercedes
2.) Mclaren
3.) Red Bull

Bahrain
1.) Lotus
2.) Red Bull
3.) Mercedes

Spain
1.) Williams
2.) Mclaren
3.) Ferrari

Monaco
1.) Mercedes
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari

Canada
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari

Europe
1.) Red Bull
2.) Lotus
3.) Williams

Great Britain
1.) Red Bull
2.) Ferrari
3.) Lotus

Germany
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari

Hungary
1.) Lotus
2.) Mclaren
3.) Red Bull

Belgium
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Force India

Italy
1.) Ferrari
2.) Mclaren
3.) Mercedes

Singapore
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Williams

Japan
1.) Red Bull
2.) Sauber
3.) Ferrari

Korea
1.) Red Bull
2.) Ferrari
3.) Lotus

India
1.) Red Bull
2.) Ferrari
3.) Mclaren

Abu Dhabi
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Lotus

USA
1.) Mclaren
2.) Red Bull
3.) Ferrari

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Cronies said 6 months ago:

Because Red Bull have had a fairly reliable car and very consistent team. Vettel has made more mistakes than either Alonso or Hamilton, and has had less bad luck than Hamilton. The reason to why he is leading the championship, is because when you factor in all speed, consistency, reliability and team mistakes – Red Bull has undoubtedly the place to be at this season. Everything is laid out perfectly for Vettel. Red Bull have been as quick as Mclaren yet as consistent as Ferrari; he has had the best of both worlds this season. The fact that Alonso can still possibly beat him this year shows just how good Fred has driven.

If what you say where true and the Redbull had in fact been as reliable as the Ferrari this year, then Vettel would already be World Champion (He would not have retired this year due to any mechanical difficulties). Further if there car was more reliable it could be argued that it would not be quite as fast. If Ferrari win (and even if they do not) it could be argued they actually had the right ratio between speed an reliability (2 DNF’s for Alonso from accidents). The way the championship works is that it rewards consistency over speed, so Ferrari in fact have the right formula – just the Lotus’s upset the plot a little.

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Toro Stevo said 6 months ago:

I don’t think RBR dominance (which is happening) is close to the Ferrari nonsense of the early 2000s. I’ve split it up crudely in terms of victories and podiums, could be some trivial mistakes as I did it by hand. Doesn’t prove the point, but gives some indication:
2010: Won 9 out of 19 (20 out of 38 podiums)
2011: Won 12 out of 19 (27 out of 38 podiums)
2012: Won 7 out of 19* (14 out of 38 podiums)
Total: 28 out of 57 (49%), 61 out of 114 podiums (54%)

I would say that doesn’t come close to Ferrari in the boring years:
2000: Won 10 out of 17 (21 out of 34 podiums)
2001: Won 9 out of 17 (24 out of 34 podiums)
2002: Won 15 out of 17 (27 out of 34 podiums)
2003: Won 8 out of 16 (16 out of 32 podiums)
2004: Won 15 out of 18 (29 out of 38 podiums)
Looking at 2002-04, Ferrari won 38 out of 51 races (75%), 72 out of 102 podiums (71%)

Or even McLaren in 1988-90, who had a winning percentage of 65%, and 64% podium success.

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Michael said 6 months ago:

@Toro Stevo

That’s great analysis and I do agree that Red Bull has not been as dominant as McLaren or Ferrari during those 2 periods. I think the podiums are lower because of Webber’s bad starts and KERS issues;-)

Nonetheless we are talking about a team that has taken close to 50% of the victories and 54% of podiums. If this were a 2 team sport no one would claim that they have dominated but being that it’s a 3-4 top team sport, taking 50% leaves just 50% for the other 3 teams.

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Toro Stevo said 6 months ago:

Of course it’s still dominant, it’s just not the most dominating a team has been over a 3 year period in F1. It’s third at best.

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