Do teams have to provide identical cars?
This topic contains 29 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Anonymous 10 months, 3 weeks ago.
28th August 2013, 21:39 at 9:39 pm #240641
Micheal, I’m sure you won’t have to think too hard to come up with instances where Hamilton pulled away convincingly from Rosberg in the “same car”.(or from Button in previous years). I can provide examples if you need them. So your puzzlement over that same occurrence when the drivers involved are Vettel and Webber puzzles me.
As for Webber, he has “fumbled” his starts throughout his F1 career. It’s not a new development. The biggest beneficiary of his fumbled start at Spa was his good friend Fernando Alonso. I’ve noticed this particular outcome is a not uncommon occurrence with Webber’s bad starts. If you can think of a plausible reason why RB would want to advantage Alonso over Webber – and, essentially, over Vettel – I’d be very much obliged.29th August 2013, 0:11 at 12:11 am #240642
@Jon_Sandor So what exactly does a driver need to do at the start of the race? I thought they had to time it well and just accelerate and change gears, make sure they don’t spin the wheels, make sure they don’t run into anyone else and also brake before the 1st corner and come out well.
Am I missing something?29th August 2013, 11:53 at 11:53 am #240643
Why are people so desperate to find an excuse for Mark Webber being consistently slower than Vettel? He’s just not as fast as Vettel, as sad as it may seem to have to admit it. Vettel is a sensational driver, probably the best on the grid right now, and arguably one of the greatest drivers of all time. Webber is a decent driver, but he lacks that transcendent quality which defines the true greats.
Let’s face it, given how quick he is to whinge about things when they don’t go his way, I think if there was even a suspicion of his car not being capable of putting in the same times as Vettel’s car, he’d have been pretty vocal about it by now.29th August 2013, 13:23 at 1:23 pm #240644
“Vettel is a sensational driver, probably the best on the grid right now, and arguably one of the greatest drivers of all time”
I want to see how he copes with Daniel before I rank him ;-D29th August 2013, 14:27 at 2:27 pm #240645
Jon- and your quote………
“I’ve corrected this misconception in the past but I can see it will take some work for it to stick” LOL FFS fella- I have emailed Ross & Adrian personally and they are awaiting your orders………… :)29th August 2013, 14:50 at 2:50 pm #240646
And as respectful answer to your question about equality mate, no. The teams need to provide their cars within FIA regulations within engine, aero etc. If a teams prefers one drive over another they dont care!!!
I am a HUGE Mark Webber fan- so my opinion is “negative bias”. Webber in an exceptional race car driver- always has been. He is heavier (and I have posted this before with KERS) than Seb but the car is designed around the fastest for the team (Was the Ferrari this year designed around Massa?? No)
Seb is faster and a long term driver, the car is “designed” around him, not Mark. It REALLY pains me to say it as an Aussie but but you back your fast man!
On a good day Mark is as fast, but few too many. Most forget Mark SHOULD have been 2010 WDC- if he was he would get SO MUCH more respect!!
Garns30th August 2013, 17:34 at 5:34 pm #240647
I agree with all your statements – how much taller and heavier is Mark over Seb?30th August 2013, 18:57 at 6:57 pm #240648
Just jumping in here, Webber is 10cm taller and 10kg heavier then Vettel.30th August 2013, 20:07 at 8:07 pm #240649
People go on about Webbers’ KERS problems. Reading some comments you get the impression his KERS stops working every other race. In fact from 2009 to the present I’ve found a total of five KERS problems on Webbers car, to three for Vettel. KERS problems can range from insignificant to very serious, so its possible that I missed some insignificant instances, but in general Webber does not seem unduly afflicted with this particular problem compared to his teammate.30th August 2013, 20:31 at 8:31 pm #240650
Thanks for the info.
How does the extra weight and height impact a car’s design?
I’ve watched a video of Sergio Perez sitting in a cut-in-half Sauber and things were tight to say the least in there. Here’s the link:
Checo is 1.73cm tall and weights 64kg whereas Webber is 1.84cm tall and weighs 74kg – that’s about the same difference as Mark and Vettel.
At the end of the race is Webber’s car the same weight as Vettel’s or is it 10kgs heavier with the driver in it?30th August 2013, 20:57 at 8:57 pm #240651
No the cars, driver included, will weigh the same. The high minimum weight means that all cars use ballast to get it up to that minimum weight.
So in terms of weight, the only advantage Vettel will have is that because ballast is placed right at the bottom of the car, his car will have a centre of gravity which is a tiny bit lower then Webber’s.
In terms of packaging, I can’t say for sure. Each car is packaged differently, but as you can see from the Sauber video, there isn’t a lot of stuff to move about with.
And making a longer car wouldn’t really be possible due to the homologation of the chassis, as well as it would make it impossible for the engineers to compare data from the cars, making Friday practice extremely difficult.
So I think they just alter his seat angle and the length of the pedals to fit him into the car.30th August 2013, 22:12 at 10:12 pm #240652
The only major differences would be pedal and steering wheel positionings, seat positions and maybe repackaging of ballast. Other than that I think both cars in Red Bull’s case will be pretty much exactly the same, so I wouldn’t imagine his extra height and weight would make a massive difference (and as @jonsan has highlighted, it doesn’t appear in terms of reliability records that it’s affected Webber unduly by any means).30th August 2013, 22:17 at 10:17 pm #240653
@freelittlebirds I seem to recall from watching a feature on Sky F1 of Rosberg talking through a start that they have to gradually feed in the clutch (which is why bite points are so important), whilst ensuring that wheelspin is minimised and gear changes are smooth. Then at a lot of tracks you also have to operate KERS.
So there’s really quite a lot to it, and naturally therefore some will be better than others! I don’t think it’s anything more sinister than that.7th October 2013, 5:20 at 5:20 am #240654
After watching the fiery performances of Webber’s car, I’m finally convinced that Webber’s driving the exact same car as Vettel!
It’s all part of Red Bull’s new “Unleash the fire!” marketing campaign.
In fact, Red Bull announced that they have signed Alicia Keys to change her song to “That car is on fire! That car is on f-i-i-i-r-e!” and Webber will star in the new commercials with flames all over saying “Red Bull – the only thing guaranteed to set you on fire!”
Just kidding!9th October 2013, 8:39 at 8:39 am #240655
Why don’t teams launch updated models nowadays? I think the last was force India in 2008.
I think it was actually the RB5B in 2009.
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