F1 Fanatic

Did or did not Hamilton overtake off track?
Maybe I have forgot but I have the impression that only 2 drivers were penalized for overtaking offtrack – Vettel and Webber. Tell me more about how the stewards hate Hamilton :D

@crr917
If the other driver pushes you off-track then I’m sure they’ve committed a few violations that precede the off-track pass… You can’t penalize someone because they made a mistake against another driver who caused it by a mistake of their own, right?

If someone tried to hit you with a baseball and you accidentally crouched while they swing and then they fall off a cliff by being offbalance, did you commit manslaughter? Technically if you had let them hit you, they would have survived…

Vettel avoided collision in Germany, too

BTW: “Sebastian was faster and he (Michael) didn’t want to get in the way and increase the risk for him,” Ralf told German television ZDF. “That’s how fair sports people treat each other,” he added.

@mnmracer

And an excellent factual analysis on Schumacher ‘letting Vettel past but defending against Kobayashi”.

That’s interesting – so if the car is slower by 1-2 seconds, the driver should always let the faster car and put no resistance. That’s actually an interesting rule to consider. You’re obviously much faster than me, so therefore I have to give you a free pass without resistance.

How did Schumacher know his car was 2 seconds slower at the time? Did his engineer ask him to let Vettel through on superior pace?

@freelittlebirds
If Alonso (or whichever driver you support) came out tomorrow and said it was an understandable move, and he would have done the same, you would argue against them too, wouldn’t you? There is just no way you can give any credit to Vettel, no matter what he does. You’re unwilling to admit even the slightest, no matter how much is stacked against your poor arguments. It just becomes pathetic beyond reason.

For anyone feeling TL;DR and is in danger of being tricked into thinking Michael (freelittlebird)’s comment is valid:
Vettel was two seconds faster than Schumacher, who was no slouch himself, as Schumacher in turn was faster than Alonso. To think there was any chance of defending, or that he could have done anything wihtout compromising his own race, is completely ignorant of the numbers.

That is probably the biggest absurdity here. Michael (freelittlebird) expects drivers to compromise their own race, just to satisfy his hatred against Vettel. *facepalm*

This thread is an absolute load of nonsense. I can’t believe people are suggesting that it should be strictly governed how much resistance a driver must put up when a faster driver is behind him. What are we saying here, that every single pass must be investigated by the stewards who have to assess whether they should have defended harder?

What rubbish. Every single driver (with a few possible exceptions) is a human being with a brain in their head, entirely capable of deciding for themselves how hard they want to defend. There are only two reasons why something should be penalised – if it’s dangerous, or if it happens outside of the boundaries of the track. Otherwise, every driver is able to decide what the most appropriate action is in any given situation. Otherwise you’ve got a grid of 24 autonomous robots, just calmly piloting their cars around according to a set of predefined parameters.

I agree that a team should not be able to order another team to hold up their driver. But I don’t think there’s actually any evidence that the drivers at Toro Rosso are ordered to do that. There have been plenty of examples of them not just jumping out of the way, which are conveniently ignored by people who are desperate to prove their point that Red Bull are evil and nasty and please FIA make them go away and let my favourite driver win instead, until he wins to much and we all decide to hate him instead.

This is racing, not WWE – nothing is scripted, and the drivers aren’t obliged to spend half an hour pretending to battle one another just to make it look more exciting. Every driver on the grid is trying to maximise his own performance, and in plenty of situations that involves carefully picking their fights. It reminds me of the European GP, when Maldonado punted Hamilton off the track during a botched overtaking attempt, and suddenly you had all these Hamilton haters coming out trying to say it was Hamilton’s fault and he shouldn’t have been defending his position against a car which was faster than him. People will always try and twist the facts to suit their own motives sadly, rather than looking at each situation objectively. Again, think back to the amount of flack that Petrov got for holding Alonso behind him in 2010, costing Alonso the title. Lots of people with lots of opinions, but ultimately that opinion is informed not by how the sporting rules are being carried out, but rather by how the opinionated person feels about the individuals involved. Is it Vettel? Then BOO HISS WE HATE HIM EVERYTHING HE DOES IS BAD but if it’s a driver they like, then it’s all IT’S PERFECTLY LEGAL SO CASE CLOSED.

Some people argue that being gifted passes ruins the enjoyment of the race. To them I say, which was the more exciting season finale? 2012, where Vettel got some assistance from other drivers, or 2010, where Alonso got none? No, I think that F1 can put on a great show and still have drivers sometimes not putting up a big fight for every position.

@freelittlebirds
You still don’t get it do you?
You are the living embodiment of how wrong your statement is that “everyone can tell when a driver lets another driver through”. You are failing at it time and again, and you are completely blind to it.