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F1 discussion

Russia another South Africa for F1: Why is there no talk of dropping the race already?

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This topic contains 46 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of himmatsj himmatsj 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 47 total)
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  • #239901
    Avatar of Force Maikel
    Force Maikel
    Participant

    Le’s take a look at our own 2013 kalender shall we.

    -Australia = Immigration Laws
    -Malaysia = Democracy doesn’t exist there
    -China = Speaks for itself I think, to many violations against normality
    -Bahrain = violent supression of peacefull protests agains dictatorial way of rule
    -Spain = Suppresion of Catalan independence, corruption at an all time high
    -Monaco = Tax haven for the super rich (including our own F1 stars :-()
    -Canada = no idea whats wrong in Cananda really
    -Great Britain = violation of privacy by MI6 toghether with the NSA and CIA
    -Germany = ?
    -Hungary = Crime is at an al time high there, justice department does nothing!!
    -Belgium = Suppression of Flemish nationalism and continuation of the French speaking Monachy over a majority of Dutch speakers even though 70% of the population wants an elected president
    -Italy = BERLUSCONI ANYONE? Convicted and proved a fraud but can continue his politcal career like nothing happend, corruption everywhere
    -Singapore = Censorship and supression of the opposition, dictatorial rule
    -Korea = ?, crazy music artists?
    -Japan = Tepco has still not resolved the fukushima problem, what on earth is the goverment wating for? We are taling Nuclear devestation
    -India = violance angainst gay people, censorship, freedom of speech is only so-so
    -Abu Dhabi = suprresion of women (rape is considered the womens fault!!!), no rights for gays
    -United States = where to even begin with them…
    -Brazil = corruption while so many are dead-poor

    You really need to see beyond the end of your noses. Russia is not the only evil in this world but I guess picking on them just because they are Russia is nothing but easy, history has teached us nothing it seems…

    #239902
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    That’s the point I’m trying to make – every country has done something objectionable at some point or other. If we’re going to judge one host nation on ethical or moral grounds, then we have to judge all if them. No matter what your intentions, you go from nobility to hypocrisy in six seconds.

    #239903
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    Isn’t it funny how a load of immigrants are now trying to stop immigration (and this is from a ‘Liberal’ party). Definition of ‘have your pie and eat it’ springs to mind. But, I think most of the world’s ills can be traced to ‘the developed nations’ throughout history.

    #239904
    Avatar of jodrell
    jodrell
    Participant

    I don’t see how I “go from nobility to hypocrisy in six seconds” at all…there’s a discussion to be had here about a government that is actively trying to make a section of society illegal and I don’t think that F1 should sleep-walk it’s way into another situation like South Africa.

    The points Force Maikel raises about other countries are certainly eye-opening in some cases but perhaps stretching the point in others.

    My point here really was to start a discussion now rather than a week before the race as always happens with Bahrain. I guess things are, or should be, a lot more clear cut with the Olympics as their charter specifically states that no form of exclusion is permissible so how their justifying going is beyond me!

    #239905
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    As has been said before, the law is formulated in a way that does not exclude non-heterosexuals from society; hence the Olympics are going there. It’s being used for other things, sadly.

    That being said, I feel F1 as a sport has no moral obligation to not go to Russia. However, drivers and teams, journalists, staff, foreign spectators, etc. could deliver a message or try to start a dialogue. That would be far more constructive than just no go there. Imagine the Russian GP was not announced; this thread would not be here.

    A race can be used to propel discussions and try to send a message to a government. Not going doesn’t solve anything, imo.

    #266912
    Avatar of Abuelo Paul
    Abuelo Paul
    Participant

    Well, after the events of the last 24 hours I personally think that the F1 circus should boycott the new Russian Venue.
    The circuit is less than 200 miles from the Crimea, and less than 500 miles from the disputed Ukranian territory. Based on the turmoil following the tragic, criminal, lawless shooting down of an innocent passenger airliner, it is obvious that the warring factions have too much firepower and no sense as to how to use it. The backpeddling of the 3 parties involved shows that there is absolutely no concern for the consequences of actions by any group. I wouldn’t go within 5000 miles of that place let alone spend a weekend visiting bringing money to it’s coffers. BOYCOTT RUSSIA.

    #267512
    Avatar of MazdaChris
    MazdaChris
    Participant

    If the EU push through tougher sanctions against Russia, as they’re currently threatening to do, it may become commercially impossible for F1 to operate in Russia anyway.

    #267516
    Avatar of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    Starting to see more comments about this on Twitter. Here’s an example:

    #267526
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    As far as the consequences of the airplane crash go, I stand with the Dutch prime minister in saying the first priorities are getting the deceased back to their relatives and to find out what happened and who is responsible, then think about the consequences. However, if Russia impedes, the EU and USA need to make a stand.

    Even with economic sanctions, the race could probably still be run since economic transparency is pretty foreign to the Russian government. And the teams gladly raced in Bahrain while Force India mechanics came under fire, the teams raced South Africa during apartheid (with drivers going because there were points on the table), so personally I don’t think the FOM, FIA or the teams have any kind of moral courage when it comes to these kind of conflicts..

    If the Russians keep impeding the investigation of MH17 or are found to be involved to a degree that EU countries boycott Russia completely (which cynically seems unlikely since there are economic consequences for EU countries as well…) these boycotts need to go as far as the French Boycotts of South Africa in 1985; making sure the teams can’t go. The teams would probably still go if Russian authorities arrested Gutierrez and forced Sauber to run Sirotkin and just so happened to disallow Raikkonen, Bottas, Hamilton, Maldonado, Perez, Massa and Kobayashi their visas.

    #267547
    Avatar of jaapgrolleman
    jaapgrolleman
    Participant

    Russia bears responsibility, and if responsibility over shooting down a passengerplane doesn’t cancel a Grand Prix, I don’t know what will.

    #267549
    Avatar of Abuelo Paul
    Abuelo Paul
    Participant

    My comment above was not related to the “evils” of Russia or any other country that has its own peculiarities that many of us in our own country cannot agree with. It was regarding mainly the dangers of having a high profile multi-million pound event happening so close to a dispute. Similar to Bahrain, but this time with heavily armed terrorists. Secondly, if it is proven that the Russians are in fact supporting the Ukranian separatists, probably responsible for the downing of MH17, and did in fact provide the weapons, then why take a hugely financial benefit to their country. Thirdly, the cowardly insensitive animals that have desicrated the site and refused access to the international bodies need to be brought to justice and maybe the F1 circus, (Bernie power) can persuade the Russian authorites to do something right for once.

    #267556
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    @npf1 “The teams have been offered Petrov, Sirotkin, Martsenko, and a few other Russian GP3 pay drivers to race.. or they won’t get their equipment back… So, some new drivers make their debut this weekend! Ferrari get first pick..”

    #267668
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    @abuello-paul Are we talking about the same Bernie that excluded Force India from any air time during Qualifying at the 2012 Bahrain GP weekend? http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/apr/22/f1-force-india-bahrain Because that is not a guy who would use his power for good.

    Not to mention, if Putin does not change course while assets are frozen and international politics are piling on to him, what would the commercial rights holder of a sport (that has sought to go to his country since the 80s) have for power over him?

    #267704
    Avatar of Abuelo Paul
    Abuelo Paul
    Participant

    Nick: fair point, but I didn’t comment about it being good or bad. Bernie, whether you like or dislike the horrible little man has made billions over the last 15 years. He has power, lots of power. Sanctions by governments can have a political effect but very rarely have a physical effect. Commercial blackmail by the real people with financial power is more effective, probably regarding agreements and obligations that the general public are totally unaware of.

    #267862
    Avatar of Girts
    Girts
    Participant

    I do not know if the Russian GP should be dropped but everyone should stop pretending that “sports and politics do not mix” and openly talk about violations of human rights in Russia and the role of Russia in the unrest in Ukraine and MH17 plane crash.

    Journalists should ask uneasy questions and drivers should demonstrate their stance as well. For instance, they could incorporate a Ukrainian flag or a rainbow flag into their helmet designs. The winner of the race could dedicate the victory to all the people that have suffered from the actions of Putin’s regime. Jean Todt should at least admit that Russia is not a democratic country.

    But I am afraid that none of that is going to happen.

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