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F1 discussion

Schumacher’s not so terrible season?

This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Broom Broom 1 year, 11 months ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
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  • #131915
    Avatar of joetoml1n
    joetoml1n
    Participant

    I’ve seen a lot of bad remarks made about Schumacher this season, due to some poor results. I think people are just looking at the skimming through the numbers rather than thinking about the races and understanding what they’re talking about..
    For example, I’ve quickly and roughly drawn up a rough estimate of how many points he would have if it were not for his team letting him down through reliability… I’ve based the points he “would/could” have recieved on where his net position was in the race). Obviously, this is very rough.. In reality he could of lost places, but then again he could of gained more.. We’ll just never know.

    Anyway, the possible points he could of scored, based on where he retired from:
    Race – Actual Pos – Actual Points – Possible Pos – Possible Points

    Aus - – 3 15
    Mal 10 1 10 1
    Chi - – 2 18
    Bah 10 1 10 1
    Spa - – - -
    Mon - – 7 6
    Can - – 9 2
    Eur 3 15 3 15
    Bri 7 6 7 6
    Ger 7 6 7 6
    Hun - – - -
    Actual Total 29 Possible total 70
    As you can see races he finished, I havent changed the positions, and races he didn’t finish through his own accord (Spain, and i’ve included Hun becuase he was out the points and it was just a disaster, even though the car was retired for mechanical reasons).
    70 points is fairly reasonable, and is only slightly behind Nico. Obviously, the gap could be closer to the drivers above, as had he fiinish in the above positions, he would of taken points of the other as well.
    I think its fair to say that he’s had an alright season, and he has shown some cracking pace at times. Yes he lucked into some points (ie European GP) but isnt that true about life and especially racing, making sure you’re theyre to pick up the pieces if an oppertunity arises..
    But like everyone, he’s not excusable fully! Mistakes have been made, ie crashing out of the Spanish GP.

    I would like to get some more fanatics opinions if possible, so please, discuss…..

    #206870
    Avatar of joetoml1n
    joetoml1n
    Participant

    Sorry, the formatting on the table above has failed, I hope you can still make out the positions and numbers though!

    #206871
    Avatar of Broom
    Broom
    Participant

    This is definitely his best year since his comeback and he got a great pole in Monaco despite being so many years past his prime plus his wet weather qualifyings were brilliant.

    People tend to be a bit short sighted when assessing drivers – its the ‘you’re only as good as your last race’ syndrome and unfortunately Schumacher had a nightmare in Hungary. For the opposite see people’s reactions to Kimi and Lotus – after being ignored all year for the WDC they are now the combination to beat.

    He has had rotten luck with reliability, but in his first career his cars suffered once every 2-3 years or so its difficult to feel too sorry for him.

    #206872
    Avatar of RaNdoMz
    RaNdoMz
    Member

    I completely agree many people this season have just been writing him off just because of the points he has.
    Australia- if I remember correctly he was third at the start of the race and because of Mercedes tyre wear he was slowly slipping down and would have probably finished 5th. 10 points lost.

    Malaysia- Started third and was spun at the 4th corner by Romain and lost huge amounts of time. He finished 10th even if he hadn’t have been spun would have probably finished about there as Mercedes were shocking in the rain that race.

    China- Was sure to finish second before pitstop.18 points lost.

    Bahrain. DRS failed in qualifying and he started 18th eventually finished 10th he probably only lost one or two points that weekend.

    Spain- retired due to his collision. 0 points lost.

    Monaco- got pole showing how much pace he has this year and considering Rosbergs pace in the race just might have scored a win but not for his 5 place grid drop. 25 points lost.

    Canada – DRS failure in the race causing it to stay open forced retirement but probably would have only finished 9th or 10th. One or two points lost.

    So give or take a few points from each scenario and Schumi has lost around 60 points this year so on total he should have around eighty points. Add this onto Mercedes constructors points and this shows they are having a much better season than it looks

    #206873
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    In my honest opinion, this is where I believe Schumacher would’ve finished each race where something went wrong, which was practically every single race until Europe.

    Australia – 5 (10 points)
    Malaysia – 7 (6 points)
    China – 2 (18 points)
    Bahrain – 6 (8 points)
    Spain – His own fault, no points.
    Monaco – 1 (25 points)
    Canada – 9 (2 points)
    Europe – No bad luck here, 3 (15 points)

    In other words, Schumacher would have had 84 points after 8 rounds and would likely have been in the thick of the championship. Although after Valencia Mercedes have been declining as of late. Let’s hope their summer-break upgrades for Belgium and Italy work.

    #206874
    Avatar of Broom
    Broom
    Participant

    You can’t give Schumacher 25 points for Monaco as his penalty was a result of his incident in Spain which was his own fault, not bad luck. It was a shame that the penalty was more costly than anyone would have imagined.

    #206875
    Avatar of Andrew
    Andrew
    Participant

    To Broom: I think he is assuming what would have happened if there was no mistake in Spain an he started from pole in Monaco. Although there are 2 things or “what if” moments that puzzle me:

    1. After Schumacher hit Senna in Barcelona he damaged his front wing. But was the car so badly damaged that he couldn’t continue? He could’ve limped to the pits, change the front wing and continue. He would probably have received a drive-thru for the collision and even if he didn’t he still would have been out of the points anyway. BUT that would have meant no grid penalty for Monaco!
    2. At the start in Monaco he tried to pass Grojean on the left side and was probably unsighted. When they approached the 1st corner (i believe they tried going 4 wide!) they ran out of room and Schumacher and Grojean collided. Later in the race Schumacher’s fule pump failed and he had to retire. My question is: if there was no collision at the start, would he still have retired?
    And if so, and you combine the two what ifs, imagine what it would feel like to have 2 difficult seasons, not getting a single pole or podium, let alone win (while Nico won in China and he retired from 2nd), and then start from pole in Monaco (where it’s easiest to defend your position) and retire while leading. (sorry for the long post:)

    #206876
    Avatar of Robbie
    Robbie
    Participant

    Is MS having a better season than it looks? Just basing it on pace I think the answer is yes, he definitely has shown pace on a par or better than NR’s. And he has made fewer gaffs than last year, the one with Senna that also cost him for Monaco being the main one. Last year there were several. At the same time NR has also outpaced MS. So it really depends on the day, as we have experienced with pretty much all drivers and all teams thanks to the unpredictability of the tires.

    Of course reliability has been the glaring issue for MS, so in that sense he cannot take the bulk of the blame for his low points tally. But I used to defend JV vs. Button that year at BAR for the same reasons…JV had half of Button’s points, but had far worse reliability, so I always claimed and will to this day, that JV had a better season than JB, or at least a better season than it looked, taking the unreliability into account. But most people didn’t seem to care. It all came down to the points tally and the standings and how that looked to the masses.

    I won’t do the same thing to MS that I rued happened to JV, but I will say this. Somehow Merc has managed to on one day win a race, and on the next not even put one car in Q3, nor barely finish in the top ten, so from a team standpoint, a consistancy standpoint, of course a reliability standpoint, and also to look at how much potential they showed in the pre-season testing and in China, to where they sit in the standings both for the WCC and the WDC, this has been a truly terrible season for them. Have they not moved backwards from where they were last year at this time?

    Bottom line, MS has been handcuffed by unreliability and sometimes lack of pace, and to ultimately look at the standings, even with the asterisks beside the results, the whole team has not done anywhere near what they had hoped to do this year, as in fight for wins and podiums. Others have done that where they should have if you go by the work they did and the enthusiasm in the off season, and their ultimate goal of progressing to the top. And also if you consider they were supposed to have an ace up their sleeve with the F-duct.

    #206877
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    You can’t give Schumacher 25 points for Monaco as his penalty was a result of his incident in Spain which was his own fault, not bad luck. It was a shame that the penalty was more costly than anyone would have imagined.

    Webber had an identical incident with Kovalainen in Valencia in 2010; with an identical outcome and both drivers race ruined. He wasn’t punished at all, and there were no rule changes regarding these sorts of incidents between that period of time either. Schumi didn’t deserve that penalty. He probably would’ve/should’ve won in Monaco.

    #206878
    Avatar of Broom
    Broom
    Participant

    @ Kingshark
    It tends to be the case that if you wreck one drivers race you incur a penalty. I’m not sure whether the shocking nature of Webber’s crash distracted the stewards from giving a penalty whilst they were checking to see whether he was okay. There have been plenty of similar incidents since then that have resulted in penalties.

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