Toro Rosso and Red Bull lineups for 2012/2013
20th October 2011, 11:59 at 11:59 am #130391
Hey folks. Just wondering. Given that RBR would probably have an empty chair for 2013; the last 2 2012 STR seats could be the most coveted ones left on the grid (barring Rosberg, who if memory serves hasn’t got a contract yet? I could be wrong).
Who do you all see at STR for 2012, and at both RB teams in 2013?
Personally I see for next year Alguersuari still in Toro Rosso; but I’m split on Dan Ric vs JEV on the other Toro Rosso seat. While I’m sitting on the fence on that one I’m kind of leaning towards JEV edging the seat – just.
In 2013 I see Alguersuari partnering Seb; and a JEV-Ricciardo lineup in STR in 2013. Having said that; there are also rumors that Charles Pic is being linked with STR for a possible test in the Abu Dhabi December young guns test.20th October 2011, 12:16 at 12:16 pm #183414
Ideally, we could somehow merge Alguersuari and Buemi into one, Sebaime Alguerbuemi. Alguersuari is the better racer, while Buemi is the better qualifier. However, I’m fairly certain this would violate several laws – legal, scientific, religious and metaphysical.
If I were calling the shots in Faenza, I’d take Alguersuari. Points are only on offer on Sundays, and Alguersuari can convert poor qualifying into points-scoring results; a little more focus on qualifying and he’ll be competitive enough to step out of the midfield (or at least into the upper midfield).
As for the second seat, I’m at an impasse. The Red Bull Young Driver Programme has largely been a failure, with too many drivers, not enough seats and no real results outside Vettel. Nevertheless, I’d get rid of Buemi. He’s been in the sport longer than Alguersuari, and he hasn’t really gotten better. Vergne has no racing experience, but I’m just not seeing the X-factor in Daniel Ricciardo. It’s a hard call, and they can’t exactly commute Vergne to Hispania to see how he stacks up against Ricciardo, since that is Toro Rosso’s entire purpose in the first place: to prepare young drivers for Red Bull. So it’s really a case of “head says Ricciardo, heart says Vergne”.20th October 2011, 13:50 at 1:50 pm #183415
I agree with @prisoner-monkeys – ditch Buemi, give Alguersuari the last chance and promote Ricciardo – and put Vergne in for 2013 or maybe even mid-2012. With Vettel having a long career ahead and likely to stay at Red Bull, and with Webber probably retiring in a few years, Red Bull need only one driver. They have four. They don’t need all of them and I don’t think Buemi is good enough.
Though I don’t think that Webber will retire after 2012 – he’ll probably stay for 2 or 3 years at least.20th October 2011, 14:03 at 2:03 pm #183416
@Enigma – yep I pretty much agree. Algie has more potential. How many more years do you reckon we’ll see of Mark in Red Bull though? I’m not quite sure I can imagine Red Bull retaining him for 2013 to be honest.20th October 2011, 14:18 at 2:18 pm #183417
@raymondu999 Hard to say. He’s still competitive, he beat Vettel in qualy at a couple of races on raw pace, and he’s not too far behind – if he can improve starts, get rid of the qualy blips and becomes more consistent, he could challenge Vettel in the championship next year I reckon. Maybe until the end of 2013 or 2014. If he doesn’t win a title before that he probably will retire, as there are some very talented drivers waiting for Vettel’s teammate’s seat.20th October 2011, 14:45 at 2:45 pm #183418
The Red Bull line up will obviously be the same next year, But at Torro Rosso I think the driver with the lowest points at end of this season will be dropped for Ricciardo, so I predict an Alguesuari – Ricciardo line up for next year, with Vergne as test/reserve driver. Then whoever proves to be better next year may replace Webber in 2013, with Vergne replacing whoever leaves and then either Lewis Williamson or Carlos Sainz Jr becoming reserve.20th October 2011, 14:46 at 2:46 pm #183419
If Ricciardo has a good 2012 Webber will be in trouble. I reckon Ricciardo will be at Toro Rosso next year.
Although if Red Bull are still on form and Mercedes or Renault are not, then I expect Rosberg and possibly Kubica (depending on the obvious) might be up for consideration. Just because they have a lot of development drivers doesn’t mean they will use one if they can get better drivers.20th October 2011, 15:11 at 3:11 pm #183420
I’d think STR will have Alguesuari and Ricciardo for the main 2 and test/reserve will be Vergne as for Buemi his only realistic options are Hispania and Virgin as I think Caterham will stick with kovi and trulli and williams will go for maldonado for the money and possibly raikkonen if he can be bothered and in 2013 Kimi would go to Red Bull to replace Webber.20th October 2011, 15:14 at 3:14 pm #183421
@NickV don’t forget though that RBR has not 1 slot for test/reserve, but 2. The hierarchy is something like:
STR test/reserve20th October 2011, 15:34 at 3:34 pm #183422
For 2012, I think Toro Rosso should keep Buemi and Alguersuari, they’re both evenly matched. I think that Alguersuari scoring points from 18th makes it harder to rate him against Buemi because of the tyres. I think if Webber shows similar form next year as he has this year, Red Bull should drop him, Red Bull need championship material drivers in their team, and Webber hasn’t shown he can compete with Vettel regularly. For 2013, I’m not sure at all who will be where.26th October 2011, 12:57 at 12:57 pm #183423
on a sub-related note, If and when Jean-Eric Vergne makes it to Formula One, I wonder if he’ll get VER as the diminutive. As far as I’m aware he uses JEV in lower formulae, no?26th October 2011, 13:20 at 1:20 pm #183424
So much talent, so few seats… hard to say who will be where in 2013 when it all depends how the young guns perform in 2012.
I see Vergne as the most talented of the young drivers and ultimately Vettel’s team mate but whether it’s 2013 I’m not sure, at the moment he has the least experience but don’t think that will count for much, seeing as Helmut Marko thinks so highly of him.
And a separate point, given that RBR were probably going to have an empty chair in 2010 and 2011 and 2012… who’s to say 2013 will see Webber retire or leave?26th October 2011, 19:02 at 7:02 pm #183425
TD.Carlos Sainz Jr.
TD.Carlos Sainz Jr.
In 2012 Sebastien Buemi will be dropped over Jaime Alguersuari. Initally because Alguersuari brings sponsorship which Buemi doesnt, but mainly because, i remember reading or hearing it somewhere, the Red Bull management only give drivers 3 years to impress. Something Buemi hasnt done and his 3 years are up in 3 races. It’s then between Ricciardo and Vergne to replace him. Red Bull management will go with Ricciardo simply because they feel he is the next big thing, and he has more F1 race experience than Vergne. With regards to the 3 year thing, Alguersuari’s are up around Hungary next year, if he underperforms next year Vergne will be placed alongside Ricciardo for the rest of the 2012 season. I however, feel Alguersuari can do enough to warrant ghim keeping his seat and taking Red Bull’s number 2 seat when Webber vacates it, most likely the end of 2012 if he is once again trounced by Vettel. This opening the way for Vergne to drive alongside Ricciardo at STR and the 2 to replicate Buemi and Alguersuari for a few years until one is dumped, the other is moved to RBR to replace the outgoing Vettel and then Sainz Jr. and Kvyat will take their respective stints at STR.21st November 2011, 17:00 at 5:00 pm #183426
I think there is an overwhelming feeling that Sebastian Buemi will be dropped in favour of giving Ricciardo a race seat, and I think I would like to echo that sentiment. Buemi is a good qualifier, but in recent races, form and the car have let him down. His race performance has not been up to the standard of Alguersuari’s, and I cannot foresee the management of Scuderia Toro Rosso giving him very long in their team.
Should Buemi be dropped, I don’t think that Red Bull will disown him – he is still relatively young, and I am certain that a future awaits him in motorsport, but perhaps elsewhere – DTM, WTCC, or he may even try his hand at the WRC!
I feel that Ricciardo will most likely be given a race seat with Toro Rosso if they do end up dropping Buemi, although I am certain that the Red Bull Young Drivers Programme will make sure that Ricciardo will get a decent seat for next year – I think that Lotus GP or even Force India are not out of the question if things fall the right way…
If Ricciardo goes to STR, then one could easily see Jean-Eric Vergne going to HRT, Marussia or even Caterham, or he could be placed as a reserve driver for STR – either way, he will make a debut race in 2012, of that I am sure.
We shall see how it all gets played out, but I can envisage F1 having an influx of young, talented drivers over the next few years…and you never know, we may see some female drivers entering the sport! Danica Patrick races in IndyCar, and has a very high profile over there (and when USF1 was hoping to join, there were rumours that she might have joined), and we have people like Alice Powell currently racing in British Formula Renault, so you never know!21st November 2011, 18:54 at 6:54 pm #183427
What Jaime Alguersuari absolutely must in do in 2012 is carry on the momentum he has developed lately and beat his team mate next year. If he doesn’t, then unless there are other seats open (possibly Sauber or Force India in 2013) then there’s only going to be someone else knocking on the door. Regardless of whether they’re any good or not.
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